A thread in the classifieds forum of all places took a bizarre turn. In light of the naming name policies, I will only say that a thread by a well known SL member devolved into said player using foul language and several racial slurs, including derogatory words for Asians and African-Americans. In light of this being a clear TOS violation, I am curious what constitutes hate speech? It was not used in saying "someone called me this", which is obviously not hate speech - it was used to be offensive. Hate speech is kind of a grey area - in terms of the TOS, what does it mean?
I certainly hope that no one in SL, regardless of their stature, is immune to disciplinary action for this.
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What constitutes hate speech? |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 11:22
_____________________
Cristiano
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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03-09-2005 11:34
I agree - it was clearly hate speech and was offensive.
I don't know what "ansheism" is suppose to mean or be - that money makes it ok to NOT honor the TOS? This special event is offering the selling of whores - and many will remember when the SLAVE events were offensive to people. Selling of humans is illegal thus a violation of the TOS. LL? _/_/_/ _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Madame Maracas
Not who you think I am...
Join date: 7 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,953
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Tough question
03-09-2005 11:36
And a good one. I went a'surfing to see if there was a broadly accepted definition and mostly found arguements about concerns over limiting free speech should a "proper" definition be codified and laws be passed regarding this thorny issue. However, I did find one site that seems to have it distilled nicely.
What is hate speech? The variation of Internet hate speech that we examine here can be defined as extremely offensive personal insults and characterizations that are directed against an individual's or group's race, religion, ethnic origin, gender, or sexual preference, and which may incite violence, hatred, or discrimination. As such, this variety of hate speech constitutes more than merely the fair airing of information or viewpoints. Websites that provide examples of this pernicious kind of speech include those that promote the views of the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist organizations, sites that call for a revisionist look at the Holocaust, anti-gay sites, anti-abortion sites whose rhetoric is so extreme that they target abortion doctors for murder, and a variety of anti-religion sites. What is not hate speech? Speech on the Internet--and elsewhere--may be offensive, vulgar, crude, and unwanted without cultivating hatred and violence. In some cases, a website may have been created to take comic jabs at a person or entire group (see All Men Must Die). A website that unintentionally incites violence or hatred would not fall into our category of hate speech. Tasteless jokes and unconventional opinions that offend some people are likewise not hate speech as we define it. For example, a person who interprets the book of Genesis literally may consider a website that promotes the theory of evolution as offensive and harmful to the moral health of humankind, but the evolution site would not be an expression of hate speech. This quote comes from the site created for Cyberspace Law at the University of North Carolina School of Law, and they've got a good bit more to say on the subject, as one might expect. _____________________
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 11:44
Not that I really want to play the devil's advocate here, especially considering the griefing I have received from this nameless person, but I did not take her use of those words in any way as "hate speech". Perhaps I misread the original post, but I saw it as a form of reductio ad absurdum.
In response to a comment from another nameless person regarding an ethnic style of some of her "objects", I think her response was apropos in revealing the bigoted nature of the other nameless person's post. Did I horribly misread said post? Did anyone else notice this? _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Unhygienix Gullwing
I banged Pandastrong
Join date: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 728
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03-09-2005 11:57
Mmmmmm I think that she does no understand subtle difference in language Chinese and English. Sometime words no good to use in public, they get used in movie and television. I think that we not should blame so quickly for misunderstanding, perhaps she was just make point. Why everyone so ready to beat up on one girl, who is just business girl trying to explore wonderful opportunities in Second Life?
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Angelina Becquerel
physics geek
Join date: 26 May 2004
Posts: 68
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03-09-2005 12:05
Not that I really want to play the devil's advocate here, especially considering the griefing I have received from this nameless person, but I did not take her use of those words in any way as "hate speech". Perhaps I misread the original post, but I saw it as a form of reductio ad absurdum. In response to a comment from another nameless person regarding an ethnic style of some of her "objects", I think her response was apropos in revealing the bigoted nature of the other nameless person's post. Did I horribly misread said post? Did anyone else notice this? Yes, I agree. China signs? UGH...that post made me sick! If there was hate speech in that thread, it wasn't from her. |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:10
Yes, I agree. China signs? UGH...that post made me sick! If there was hate speech in that thread, it wasn't from her. Angie, you can't agree with me in public. Then everyone will know that you are my alt!  _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Angelina Becquerel
physics geek
Join date: 26 May 2004
Posts: 68
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03-09-2005 12:17
I am so disgusted. I feel like throwing up.
 Ooh and on a semi-related note...If I see the word Orientals used to refer to people of Asian descent one more time in SL, I will scream! When was the last time you referred to Asia as the Orient? |
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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03-09-2005 12:21
Ooh and on a semi-related note...If I see the word Orientals used to refer to people of Asian descent one more time in SL, I will scream! When was the last time you referred to Asia as the Orient? LOL I know; what is this, the 1950's? _____________________
http://churchofluxe.com/Luster
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:23
I am so disgusted. I feel like throwing up. Ooh and on a semi-related note...If I see the word Orientals used to refer to people of Asian descent one more time in SL, I will scream! When was the last time you referred to Asia as the Orient? It was either Alan Quarterman or Indiana Jones I think. Cheer up Ang, I will take you to Tringo tonight.  _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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03-09-2005 12:23
When was the last time you referred to Asia as the Orient? Before Britain lost its grip on the world, I believe.  I agree Angelina - Orient(al) should only be used to describe: rugs and trains. _____________________
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:26
Not that I really want to play the devil's advocate here, especially considering the griefing I have received from this nameless person, but I did not take her use of those words in any way as "hate speech". Perhaps I misread the original post, but I saw it as a form of reductio ad absurdum. In response to a comment from another nameless person regarding an ethnic style of some of her "objects", I think her response was apropos in revealing the bigoted nature of the other nameless person's post. Did I horribly misread said post? Did anyone else notice this? You horribly misread the post. If said player had just posted in response to the China signs comments, which were also hate speech, I would agree with you. How exactly did black people get dragged into her response? It is as vile as the original statement. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:27
Yes, I agree. China signs? UGH...that post made me sick! If there was hate speech in that thread, it wasn't from her. Really, how exactly was her use of the the racial slur completely unrelated to that, or her own ethnicity, germaine in any way? The whole thread was disgusting from start to finish, as is the replacement thread advocating the sale of whores. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:35
You horribly misread the post. If said player had just posted in response to the China signs comments, which were also hate speech, I would agree with you. How exactly did black people get dragged into her response? It is as vile as the original statement. Again, that is the nature of making a point using reductio ad absurdum. Taking the comment about the signs to a ridiculous level (i.e. what groups are next; blacks, gays, jews, etc). After rereading the post numerous times, I am 100% certain that there was no intention of racism behind her words, and I am suprised that several incredibly literate people that I respect are implying such a thing. _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Roberta Dalek
Probably trouble
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,174
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03-09-2005 12:36
I have no problem with any of it.
You can't be sold against your will on SL. Escort agencies are everywhere, in case people haven't noticed. The term "oriental" was used to describe herself I believe - she clearly feels some people have issues with her *because* of her back ground. The one thing that I presume has started all this off is the reference to the "American master race". I presonally don't want to drag all this up again but it can seen that sometimes non-American players snap. When we do we get collectively kicked, or so it seems. Some people who have posted on this thread were particularly vicious towards me. If patriotic Americans wouldn't keep screaming "hate" at non-Americans life would be much more pleasant. .. If everyone would keep their first life prejudices out of Sl life would be *so* much better... |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:37
Really, how exactly was her use of the the racial slur completely unrelated to that, or her own ethnicity, germaine in any way? The whole thread was disgusting from start to finish, as is the replacement thread advocating the sale of whores. Now unless I am completely obtuse and missed some type of point to the replacement thread, I think that that one was particularly disgusting. _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:38
I have no problem with any of it. You can't be sold against your will on SL. Escort agencies are everywhere, in case people haven't noticed. The term "oriental" was used to describe herself I believe - she clearly feels some people have issues with her *because* of her back ground. The one thing that I presume has started all this off is the reference to the "American master race". I presonally don't want to drag all this up again but it can seen that sometimes non-American players snap. When we do we get collectively kicked, or so it seems. Some people who have posted on this thread were particularly vicious towards me. If patriotic Americans wouldn't keep screaming "hate" at non-Americans life would be much more pleasant. .. If everyone would keep their first life prejudices out of Sl life would be *so* much better... Roberta, What started this off was the use of the word (edited) by the poster. It has nothing to do with American/non-American, though once again you make your anti-American point so clear. You don't need to thinly veil it either, I make no apologies for pushing back very strongly against your repeated statements about Americans. You would do well to follow your own advice in the final line of your post. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Roberta Dalek
Probably trouble
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,174
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03-09-2005 12:40
We *all* know you love your country Cristiano, don't worry...
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:40
Now unless I am completely obtuse and missed some type of point to the replacement thread, I think that that one was particularly disgusting. The repost has been pulled, Panda. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:41
I presonally don't want to drag all this up again but it can seen that sometimes non-American players snap. When we do we get collectively kicked, or so it seems. Some people who have posted on this thread were particularly vicious towards me. If patriotic Americans wouldn't keep screaming "hate" at non-Americans life would be much more pleasant. .. I like that you drag this up Roberta. But you have to remember, there are MANY Americans aren't Jingoistic beer-can-crushing yeehaw folk, and sometimes we are collectively kicked by the rest of the world. Not that I blame the rest of the world, just sayin' _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:41
We *all* know you love your country Cristiano, don't worry... Ah I figured you would choose to respond to it in that way. It has nothing to do with loving the US, which I don't particularly one way or another. It has to do with loathing your repeated anti-American statements. I would feel the same had you made them about Canada, Mexico, or anywhere else. You don't get a free pass to slur a group of people. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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03-09-2005 12:42
Really, how exactly was her use of the the racial slur completely unrelated to that, or her own ethnicity, germaine in any way? The whole thread was disgusting from start to finish, as is the replacement thread advocating the sale of whores. Ok, the thread she started was a little off-the-hinges; but we all know that the prostitution industry in SL is thriving. I'm not condoning it, but I think it's a bit beside the point ... The certain person who made the comment about her sign styles has made snide comments about them before; and I think that the fact that he chooses to stick to this strange argument is really pathetic. I don't understand why he has a problem with the style of her signs, and maybe he has problems with other styles as well, or perhaps signs made out of marble, or metal, or maybe signs with flowers on them. Her point was: if you have problems with Chinese people, how 'bout them n*****? Eh? Would this guy have made the same comments if the signs were made in, say, an Egyptian style? No one can really answer that, but if he has a problem with Chinese signs, who's to say he wouldn't have a problem with Egyptian signs? _____________________
http://churchofluxe.com/Luster
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:45
Ok, the thread she started was a little off-the-hinges; but we all know that the prostitution industry in SL is thriving. I'm not condoning it, but I think it's a bit beside the point ... The certain person who made the comment about her sign styles has made snide comments about them before; and I think that the fact that he chooses to stick to this strange argument is really pathetic. I don't understand why he has a problem with the style of her signs, and maybe he has problems with other styles as well, or perhaps signs made out of marble, or metal, or maybe signs with flowers on them. Her point was: if you have problems with Chinese people, how 'bout them n*****? Eh? Would this guy have made the same comments if the signs were made in, say, an Egyptian style? No one can really answer that, but if he has a problem with Chinese signs, who's to say he wouldn't have a problem with Egyptian signs? Lo, His statements were clearly out of line also, I agree with you and make no justifications for his statements, just as I make none for hers. She repeatedly has wielded her ethnicity in a manipulative way - playing the poor demure Asian girl role when it suits her, which is offensive in and of itself. If I am being maligned by someone, it does not give me any invitation to just say "oh, if you don't like me, I'm sure you hate * insert slur here *". As far as the prostitution angle, I am referring to the fact that she started a follow up thread talking about selling your pussy, and offering whores - which is what Merwan was referring to. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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03-09-2005 12:48
Lo, His statements were clearly out of line also, I agree with you and make no justifications for his statements, just as I make none for hers. She repeatedly has wielded her ethnicity in a manipulative way - playing the poor demure Asian girl role when it suits her, which is offensive in and of itself. If I am being maligned by someone, it does not give me any invitation to just say "oh, if you don't like me, I'm sure you hate * insert slur here *". As far as the prostitution angle, I am referring to the fact that she started a follow up thread talking about selling your pussy, and offering whores - which is what Merwan was referring to. I understand your point, Cris, but do you deep down really believe that she meant to imply anything negative about African Americans or any other ethnic group? I just don't see it. As a matter of fact, I see the exact opposite. _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-09-2005 12:49
I understand your point, Cris, but do you deep down really believe that she meant to imply anything negative about African Americans or any other ethnic group? I just don't see it. As a matter of fact, I see the exact opposite. How exactly does one go from "I don't like your chinese signs" to "lock us up in jail with other o* and n*". I guess I just don't see it - I do understand the point, I am just considering the source also. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |