Leakage from SL -> Teen Grid

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No need to get defensive, didn't mean to be accusatory...the reason everyone needs to forget commercial exploitation of the teen grid is NO ONE there has any money at all. They have spent their starter money, and get small stipends. There is no opportunity for anyone inside the grid or outside it, at present.

Cali

Sorry, I misunderstood then. Thank you for clarifying, Moopf.

People saying I'm only out to make money on the teen grid is slanderous. Period. I don't think threatening to abuse report the continuation of that is "on a high horse". I know many people are abuse-report-shy, and think it's cheap. You're entitled to that opinion, I suppose. But I felt the whole "Look, hiro's trying to take advantage of minors" was just a red herring to the whole topic I am raising, and I wanted to end it.

Tringo is NOT a form of gambling.

Tringo is a game in which you are handed a game card which is the same as everyone else playing the game, and for every game, which is covered in squares. As the game starts, shapes which are very like the shapes used in Tetris, appear on the central board, and you have to click your card to place the shape. The position is up to you, and your aim is to make a 2x2 or 3x3 or 4x4 square, by positioning the pieces, at which point the square you have made disappears from your board and the score is added to your score.

There is a lot of skill involved, as you have to place the pieces in order not to block yourself from being able to place future pieces, because not placing a piece incurs a penalty. Being able to make the maximum score with minimum blocking requires fast thinking and intelligence.

It is a very clever game, needs skill, is addictive like Tetris, and can attract a lot of prize money as the people playing the big games tend to donate a lot to the pot. It may be this that has you confused, but it is a fair prize for a game won, not gambling.

Cali

Didn't see that. December... announcements. No discussion. It probably got buried before I see it. That was also when I came down with two cases of the flu. (yes, two.) I think though that's something everyone could use awareness of.

however, quoting the thread:

The emphasis was on "basic stuff any player should have". This really doesn't apply to a lot of the content out there. (Nor Tringo, I don't think.)


Yeah, there's that, too. People can't sell anything to people with no money.

I'm sorry about getting defensive but I just got jumped on by a few people for no good reason. =[

I'm heading out and to bed. The topic's been brought up... ya'all can take it from here.

OK, disprove it then. Categorically state that if you were given the opportunity to have items on the teen grid that you would give them away for free and not seek to make any profit from them. If you make that statement, then I'm sure people will be put right on that point. Personally I don't care if that is your intention, but as the accusations have obviously irked you to the point of calling them "slanderous" then back that up with a firm, direct statement as I suggest above.

Your whole topic is a red herring to be honest, it's a storm in a tea cup created by you because you feel, for whatever reason, agrieved that the Lindens are using somebody else's content on the teen grid. You say you're arguing for all content creators - here's a newsflash. I'm a content creator and I don't give a monkeys - if Linden Lab want to let people play Tringo, that's their call and it affects me not one jot. If they put a great big picture of Kermitt above it, promoting him as the creator, again I care not one jot.

Honestly, you have engineered an argument on tenuous grounds and your reasoning for that argument has been adjudged by some, at least, to be because you feel you're missing out on a slice of the teen commerce market. Refute that publicly rather than getting all full of bluster and talking about slander and abuse reports. End of story.

Thank you for your detailed reply Caliandris, that's much more than I got from my queries inworld about it from either participants or the hosts of these games.

Seems to me that hosts would have a notecard giver at the events that says something to the effect of 'Hey n00b, click here to learn how to play!'. Maybe some do, but in almost a month of living my Second Life I've not seen it, and thus my confusion.

I can't really be against anything that promotes strategy, skill, and quick thinking. This greatly allays my concerns about its existence on the teen grid.

Again, thank you.

gambling - To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
It is gambling, skill, or any level of, has nothing to do with gambling. You can gamble on the stock market. That takes skill, but is still gambling.

One of the boards at the front does provide instructions if you click on it - I've forgotten which one though.

There's NO betting. If Tringo is betting, then so is entering a cake baking contest. You don't know who will win until they win the prize....
Cali
Edited to add: Dunno why I am defending the Tringo makers/players, except in the interests of truth lol. I have only played one set of games, in a non-commercial game with a friend. I realised that I would be as addicted to it as I used to be to Tetris and decided not to play. I find it is generally anti-social, although it appears to be a social activity, as people tend to be too busy concentrating on the game to talk.

No one said cake baking contests weren't gambling. If their is money involved, and the outcome is uncertain... thats gambling. If you pay to enter the contest in hopes of winning the "pot" thats text book gambling.

You are using a very odd definition of gamble.

I looked up the definition:

To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
To play a game of chance for stakes.
To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.


Tringo doesn't qualify. There is no stake required, nor cost to enter. You do not bet on the outcome of the game, even if you donate to the pot.

You risk nothing by playing the game, and even if there were a cost to enter a game, this still woulnd't make it gambling, unless you are making your own special definition of the word.
Cali

We all agree it's a game of chance. It is agreed that you can win the stakes "pot". So you play the game,of chance, with the possibility of winning stakes. The fact that you don't "have" to bet isnt the point. The fact that you "can", is the point. If the money event is removed completely from it then it will no longer be gambling. If the host provides money to the winner from their own pocket that is not gambling either, because the players are not contibuting to the "pot".

LOL!
On this basis, Show and tells are gambling. Zonax accepts donations to the pot for his wonderful show and tells on a Sunday. We don't know who that pesky audience will vote for...and the result is chance.

On this basis, ANY form of contest, Easter Bonnet Parade, most beautiful baby, most Troll-like poster, which has an outcome not decided by sheer numbers and has a prize, becomes gambling.

I am a Quaker, and members of my meeting have fairly stern views on the dangers of gambling, but even the most outrageously conservative of them would not agree with you.
Cali

apparently you missed the part where i said

I was illuminating mine to add the fact that many show and tells ask for donations - and that Zonax's wonderful show and tells request donations too - while you posted this.

If I believed that these things were gambling, I would say so, honestly. But I don't.
Cali

What you believe and what the definition is, are two different things. Just because that is how you feel, does not make it law. I'm not saying that this is a hazardous form of gambling, but I am saying, technically, it is gambling.

Asking for a donation does not make it gambling. Donating to it and then competing in it does make it gambling.

I think I would agree with you if a stake was required in order to win the pot. It isn't.

I fully accept that it is an area which can be hazy...raffles are thought of as gambling by many people, whereas others stare at you as though you're mad if you suggest that.

I also fully accept that it isn't what I believe that is important, but I was trying to assure you that I wasn't simply arguing for the sake of arguing, nor presenting views I don't actually, personally, agree with.
Cali

I am not saying the way you think is wrong, personally I couldn't care if gambling was made legal globally tomorrow. It is a very basic human idea. It's part of the sport of competition. I know we both think this can be really hazy. AND i too am not arguing to simply argue. But I do think it is important for anyone reading this to understand that it can technically be classified as a form of gambling. Some parents may not want their children exposed to any form of gambling. So this is relevant for them.

I am truly trying to find out what you think...does this mean you think any activity which requires an entry fee and has a prize, if the outcome is in doubt and could be said to be chance, is gambling?

Does that mean that you do think that Zonax's show and tells, if I donate to the pot and then win a prize, is gambling?

Maybe it is important for parents who are worried about there being gambling in the teen grid to understand that your definition is this wide.

I have refused to build casinos, and I am actually opposed to gambling in SL and FL, which is why I am slightly incredulous that you define these things as gambling.
Cali

Yes.

Yes.

No, it is not important for them to understand my definition, but is important for them to understand all the facts so that they can make their own informed decision.

Yes, I agree.

But I would hazard a guess that most people won't share your definition. I don't think of Zonax's Show and Tells as gambling. If I pay into the pot and don't win a prize, I assume that the other people have made something that is better and more prizeworthy than I have. It IS chance, in that a person with a lot of friends in the audience might win over someone with a better product, but generally, I think it is fair and reflects the relative cleverness or design of the item. My donation is freely given, and is not required, and I do not "lose" that donation or win it back, and I possibly may not enter a show and tell that I have donated to the pot for. I don't think it passes my personal test for gambling.

As a parent with a child on the teen grid, I have no worries about my son playing Tringo, whether for money or not. I trust that the Lindens will keep casinos, fruit machines and the things that are generally agreed by all to be gambling, out of the teen grid.
Cali

Just as a donation into a slot machine is freely given, is not required, and you may or may not win it back.


I trust the lindens will do their best to enforce this as well. And as for your son, that is a personal choice you have made as a parent. Personally I wouldnt have a problem with my child playing it either. I am sure though, that some parents would not be ok with this. I only posted this to ensure that people do understand that Tringo *is* a form of gambling. I did not want to tie my personal feelings to it in any way. It's black and white when you look at the basics. But it gets hazy when you pull back and look at how the event is being conducted. Since neither one of us is a judge (im assuming), I just think it's important to post both sides of this and not lure parents into a false sense of security.

Whoops.
You can't play the slot machine's game unless you've given the coin. With Tringo, you can. That's the point of seperation.

You can play free slots, i dont consider that gambling.