Are you looking forward to Forum reforms?

I tell you, Coco, if my friend gets banned for crappy behavior on the forums, I'm not going to be mad at LL, I'm going to be saying to my freind "You ignored several warnings and two suspensions? Is there a recent brain injury you didn't tell me about?"

I think you're being a little dramatic here. Being banned from Second Life isn't something that comes out of the sky like lightning. As has been stated previously, you'll get some pretty stiff warnings and penalties before final punishment is meted out. I don't think I have any friends who are stupid enough to climb through three or four layers of razor wire to reach the ban pit, y'know?

I disagree.

Well said. My feelings exactly.

Just as a note. He actually has "access" to all of the SL forums. He can only *post* on the classifieds. He has also stated on 3rd party sites that he reads threads and sometimes sends notecards to individual posters to "correct them".

Personally I think it is creepy that someone who is not fit to be a full part of the forums, can still use them against us in world. Talk about joining the two. uhg! No. I would not like for this situation to be able to repeat itself.

Yes, and I totally agree, Jillian! I would be unhappy that person had gone ahead and gotten himself banned from the forums, and I would say so!

BUT

I would not think that person should have gotten banned from the game, too. Then, I WOULD be mad at LL, particularly if they had never done anything wrong in the game.

coco

What do you mean use them "against us" in world?

What have I missed on the classifieds?

Just how does him advertising his own things do anything to the rest of us?

coco

P.S. What is an IDIC badge?

I consider it quite a leap of logic that there is risk of banning for having unpopular opinions, the ugly behavior of other posters nonwithstanding.
Has unpopular poster called someone names? Outed another poster's RL details? Suggested mental defficiency in his or her adversaries? NO to all this and thier ilk, then said poster isn't in danger of being banned.

Ok, I'll have to concede that - everyone here, including our stalwart moderators, being human - there is some potential for someone to be in appropriately ARed into the consequence system. However, that system is layered thick enough that I simply can't bring myself to belive anyone who is not actually engaged in rule-breaking behavior would somehow get worked all the way to a banning.

Indeed it is the exact opposite.

coco

And I would not. I would be mad at my freind for being stupid enough to get herself to that point, knowing full well the consequences!

It's a symbol of the Vulcan philosophy.

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. IDIC is about the acceptance, understanding, and at times even encouragement of all possibilities, no matter how one may feel about them.

What about giving the Lindens more credit? Do you not think they would notice if it were obvious that some gang of people were just out to get someone? They do have the ability to read the threads and individual posts themselves. I am certain that while they were "reviewing for ban" (after warning and suspending a person several times), they would take the time to make sure they were not being gamed by some group of people.

Sorry, but the Lindens are a bit more intellegent than that. And they have the ability to "see all".

You may consider it a leap of logic, Jillian, but I happen to be the recipient of just such a thing. I've not done any of all that, yet there has been a campaign for my banning - an open call for it, and on more than one occasion. Exactly how my punishment should be meted out has been discussed openly by a number of people, including several on this thread.

Someone who rises to the bait more than I do might, in similar circumstances, find such a campaign working. And if it does, then that person will also lose their game in the process, where they probably never said a cross word to anybody.

It doesn't look like much of a leap to me.

coco

I think you're being a little dramatic here. Being banned from Second Life isn't something that comes out of the sky like lightning. As has been stated previously, you'll get some pretty stiff warnings and penalties before final punishment is meted out. I don't think I have any friends who are stupid enough to climb through three or four layers of razor wire to reach the ban pit, y'know?

edit: Also, you'll get an anonymous resident review panel. Did you know that?

Not true. I know exactly who it will be. It will be the person who receives a lengthy list of warnings and suspensions over the course of months. The idea that a full game ban is going to blindside any of us out nowhere is unrealistic. The Lindens are notoriously timid with their diciplinary action and it will take a willful act of total defiance and a destructive nature to get a full ban. To be honest I have my doubts that the Lindens will EVER have the chutzpah to actually use the full ban option for offenses short of Denial Of Services attacks on the forums. But I think the rule should stay on the books if only as a symbolic gesture.

You've been banned from the forums and the game? Suspended? That must be the case if you're so sure a campaign to oust someone will work.

It's the rising to the bait that's the key, Cocoa. Don't do it, and you're at no risk, regardless of how many others gang up on you. We're all supposed to be adults, with some self-control. Part of being an adult is accepting responsibility for our own actions, and accepting the consequences if we knowingly break the rules.

First, I read the forums every day and I've never seen an open call for your banning. Can you please point me to the thread or threads where this happened?

But more to the point, even if a there are a thousand people ARing your every post in an attempt to get you banned - let's give Jeska some credit here. Unless you've actually broken the rules, why would she dare even warn you? And if she (for some reason I can't imagine) does, then you can appeal that to another Linden. And unless Linden Lab's employees had it in for you, you'd get your justice. And if the do have it in for you, they'd not need so play such a silly game, they'd just cancel your account and be done with it. It's thier system, after all, fair or not.

" to actually use the full ban option for offenses short of Denial Of Services attacks on the forums"

What is that? What do you mean?

coco

If you've committed a crime in Georgia against me and then follow me to California, I would be very upset that I don't have a law to protect me.

I don't, Jonquille. But others do, and will. And it's not fair for them to be piled on hideously until they finally break. It's doubly unfair to then deprive them of their game, where virtually NONE of this stuff is ever an issue!

coco

Now this is a good point.

Use it to consider this:

One person has an idea. Sixteen other people not only think that idea sucks, they think the person's presentation sucks, their "tone" sucks, and everything else about them sucks.

Sixteen people are taking turns pecking at that person. That person may - or may not - report them. And may, or may not, finally peck back. At some of them, here and there, maybe.

Meanwhile, sixteen people are reporting that one person.

Who's going to look like the bad guy?

But who really is the bad guy?

When it's 16 to one, it's not fair.

coco

I've not seen this piling on, but let's accept it for the sake of argument.

Horace finally breaks.

Horace snaps and posts a terribly vitriolic post that suggests that Marcus likes to have sexual relations with barnyard animals.

Horace gets a warning from Linden Lab, formally, that his behavior is not acceptable.

This must be repeated several times before Horace finally gets the boot. What am I missing here?

The forums are part of the game, not a seperate entity. The two are tied together, and the punishments should be as well. We've seen it gamed a hundred times before, and the Lindens have neatly closed that loophole. No more shit stirring in world when you're suspended from the forums, or vice versa. No more using Alts to work around your suspensions. If we can't moderate our own behavior, we pay the price. Knowing full well the price we may pay, if we still can't moderate our behavior, I have little sympathy.

"I just couldn't control myself," and "But they started it!" are not good excuses for being abusive, even if other were picking on you. This isn't high-school, and that's the sort of mentality you seem to be saying we should have sympathy for. I don't.

You haven't missed anything in the classifieds Coco. Prok can *post* there *only*. But he can read every single other forum here.

Proks own words on a public 3rd party site:

"It’s a really eerie thing to be reading forums that one can no longer participate in. I’m switching now to this tactic: I read forums, then I draft an inworld notecard to the person lyiing, misrepresenting, attacking etc to give them some sense of accountability for their words. It’s astounding to see everybody chasing their tails, sniping at each other, and obsessing about Prok."
http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=840

So he has and does have free reign in world to argue forum issues even though he is banned from the forums.

Now imagine Prok was not a person you like Coco. Imagine he was actually someone that had made you seriously distressed every time you posted. Would you like for that person to still be able to read your posts and have the ability to harrass you in world?

You know what would be really horrifying? What if I walked down the street and I saw a red button that said DO NOT TOUCH THIS RED BUTTON. But I touched it anyway and a dozen armed, suited men came out of nowhere to arrest me. But I get scared and start to run away! They tell me no, stop, you are surrounded. But I run anyway! And then they shoot me in the back, and I die! OMG THAT WOULD BE SO TERRIBLE.

I want a congress to pass a law forbidding 12 armed guys in suits from shooting me in the back because I push a red button.