Apparent failure of the "new rules"

Having bored you all silly with a long half-relevant anecdote which seemed to say "its hopeless" I'll try to do penance with a short, positive proposal.

If we cant stop prevent personalised and combative off-topic posts, we can easily isolate them. No need for new software, new forums structures, or much change in thread-starting behaviour.

We can link one thread to another with a url. When any of us see things deteriorate, or feels the need to personally object to someone elses tone or behaviour in responding to us, we effectively say "please come outside" in a brief invitation including a clickable link to a thread created for the purpose in forum X. Those interested can follow, those not needn't.

Where shall we put forum X, all full up with vituperation? I think (I'm not sure) we can just create one in the almost unused, little known Group Forum area. A sort of open group for dispute location.

If people refuse to go, someone else can create the thread and the link for them. If everyone else present then firmly says "GO" and we firmly entrench this in forum etoquette, it might just work.

Do you think ?

If thats exactly the same as others previous suggestions, then I'm just sorry. There.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

I see this as a kind of "po-tay-to/pah-tah-to" kind of thing.

Part of the reason I did not agree with the new rules changes and part of why I think they may not be working now, is that it is wrong to assume that only the "bad" folks are doing this IMO. The thing that strikes me about it is that otherwise "star" players (members of the dreaded FIC aftr all ), engage in this behaviour.

I am sure that the folks in question are operating from the best intentions and I dont question their motives in that way, other than to observe that I think they are fooling themselves a bit.

I am not trying to say that those folks who posted all the f*ck you stuff recently are "as bad as <unamed>." Quite the contrary. The point to me is that even good people get mad sometimes and say a lot of annoying stuff that is just mean. I am *certain* that I do it (or at least have tendencies), and most here are not above it, or perhaps just barely manage to control themselves in public.

A good example of what I am thinking here is the fact that I am diametricaly opposed to most of what Prokofy Neva believes in in terms of politics, economics etc. But I find when one actually meets him in world, he *can* be a very nice fellow (if we steer clear of those topics.) I'm sure if he and I agreed on the other stuff like some of the other forum posters, I would probably see him as the wonderful guy that they do.

I believe it's possible to be an asshat on the forums and yet not be a "bad person" in SL and vice versa. I believe that most of the dire enemies on this forum would be surprised to see what the person they hate so much is like to meet in the game. Lots admit that they have never done that.

I actually had an idea a while ago that we should have a big forum party and all actually meet each other. This is because I know a quite few people here who seemingly cant stand me or have told me I am <insert insult>, yet in SL I am extremely likeable and considerate and have rarely had anyone say a bad word to me.

In RL I am even nicer!

Bottom line for me is that judging folks by what they write in the forums is not always the best way to get a handle on someone and it's possible that the "evil bastard arch enemy" of yours is not really quite so evil as you imagine.

.

Again, what and where are these new rule changes?

People were already bludgeoning their fellow residents with hollow metal pipes when I got here in November, 2003. It's never stopped and probably never will. People who act this way act this way. Rules don't matter to them any more than common courtesy.

I love this story.
This is very close to what I was thinking last night when I saw all that f*ck you stuff.

It's as if we *need* to have an evil chicken to pick on, and now that our favorite pecker is gone, we just make another, and another...

Your post is excellent, especially the two paragraphs I quoted. You often see the admonishing posts where people act like they are above it all, and chiding people on how to behave - only to turn around and do the same thing themselves a few posts later.

I have a rather odd relationship with Prokofy - we are definitely at odds, and in these forums he brought much grief to me, yet I always liked him and find him fascinating in some weird way. We would often talk in world, and it was quite enjoyable. I have found this to be true of many people - one of the ways that Cocoanut and I established our friendship, as it is, was simply by me just iming her out of the blue one day and talking. I have done that with other people as well. It is much easier to talk to people one on one, as human beings, than it is in these forums.

I'm not referring to any specific individual(s) here when I say this:

I'm a firm believer that internet trolls are a natural part of forum ecology. However, if "Trolls" are allowed to persist unchecked, they have the side effect of making new folks and lurkers less likely to post, which reduces the exchange of ideas.

I know I've felt that way at times: There have been moments I wanted to post something or start a thread; but didn't because the temperature was too hot at that moment.

I'm not exactly sure what the best solution is for dealing with Trolls from a moderator's perspective. But if the forum mods are failing in this regard - we are failing as well as a forum community.

That's because 'Trolls' require feeding, and there never seems to be a shortage of folks ready and waiting to throw out scraps. If it were possible for us to all ignore trolling posts, and let them die - we wouldn't be having a problem. Unfortunately, we (as a group) seem incapable of doing that. So it's Jeska's problem.

I'd also add "This can be mitigated by not lying or trolling" and maybe throw in "If your topic is met with general derision, refrain from repeating it at every opportunity."

* wild applause *

Speaking for myself, I never had one


Well said, Travis. And that is Forum Management 101 -- you never let the trolls take over.

Correlary: It doesn't work to just ban one troll and not the rest. Consistency and fairness must be aggressively demonstrated at all times.

This is a good idea.. perhaps to make sure we know what is being generally derided (and not just the opinion of a vocal minority) we could have a seperate voting section on certain topics and whether or not they are suitable for the majority audience.

I still have the scars to prove this statement.

agreed. Ano and I got off to a very rocky start on the forums, and now he wuvs me.

'tis true, Kendra is tha bomb

Look, I said I was sorry.

I think this is common in most forums from what I've heard. Not that I'm saying it's great. I don't think people trying to step in and acting as den-mother or forum mod is going to help, unless it's done by the mods. I find that almost as irritating as the personal attacks.

Taking it upon yourself to play nice is about the best thing to do. Let the others come to their own conclusions. Or not.

I still say the forums are a much nicer place. At least for me it is. And for most people I think so. It's certainly easier to read.

*Cheers*

I *knew* someone would jump on that "pecker."

There is no way I was going to
.

hehe.. I remember having my hesitations about you before meeting you in world. Before Neualt really happened I think. All the time I got to spend with you dealing with Neualt though, I grew to really admire and like you.

I am one of those people that does not seperate forum personality from in-world personality. I *will* base my judgements of a person on *both*. That said, there are less than 5 people in all of SL that I have ever truely disliked, so I don't think my policy is keeping me from knowing anyone I would want to.

I was thinking EXACTLY of that when Diane started talking about how we should have a forum party and meet each other in world, or something.

And the amazing thing abut the night Cristiano IM'd me was I was feeling awfully desperate that night, and was, for some odd reason, really really wanting to talk to him. He wasn't on when I looked. Then later, he im'd me, and I thought - ESP! I needed and wanted to talk to him, and there he showed up, im'ing me to talk to me, for the first time! It made me feel a whole lot better.

back to reading the thread now.

coco

Y'all - do you not see where you and Chip and Cristiano are going with this?

All these are ways to arrive at: "If people don't like the subject you are posting on, you are no longer allowed to post about it."

Everyone should be allowed to discuss any topic they like or feel is important. Those who disagree don't have to respond, or can respond about why they disagree.

That is called freedom of speech.

coco

Nope, that is not where I was going with it at all. There does reach a point where you have to take responsibility for your own choices, however. You can talk about whatever you want until the cows come home or the mods shut you down. As a public forum, however, expect response. If you purposely choose what is obviously an incideniary topic, then you should not be surprised when someone is upset by it. My applause was more about the first part of what Chip said about lying and trolling.