Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

We Need More Moderators!

Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-25-2005 04:15
From: Selador Cellardoor

I just wish they would take some time before posting, and imagine a real person sitting on the other side of their desk looking at them. Perhaps if that happened we might raise the level of civility on these forums to a minimal acceptable level.


This is something I truely wish happened more. I'm just happy that the inverse is true too—people who are socially inadequate offline like myself find great solace and comfort in being here, and can be quite open to such a degree that makes lions out of domestic housecats.

I also think everyone typing in the same font sometimes inhibits personality. If Verdana was suddenly changed to some flowery script, perceptions of words might seem not so harsh. It is for the same reason I use emoticons frequently, as I realize some things are not well-conveyed for me in text alone. A curious companion to this are the giant, iconic pictures often plastered in threads with loud typography. It must mean something insofar as speaking out about an issue goes. :)
_____________________
Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
09-25-2005 04:20
From: Selador Cellardoor
I have an alternate theory, April. I believe that some people have a particular personality type. They are socially inept, feel inadequate, and tend to cowardice. When they get on a forum like this, they realise with delight that here they can be offensive as they like with impunity. They can upset people, they can bully, they can victimise, and there is no comeback. It is like paradise for them.



If this is the case, then forums are also a welcome haven for fake victims, net-nannys and self aggrandizing drama queens. Really the door swings both ways. If are will be to be doormats on forums are they doormats in RL? They must be. A person can affect you in the manner in which you let them. Part of being an adult is learning to control and prioritize your feelings. If someone tells a poster that you are a dumbass on a forum breaks that persons heart then they probably need to re-evaluate their priorities.


Selador, your constant attacks on people and their manners that you deem as inappropriate makes you no better than the people you ridicule. Everyone here is an adult and doesn’t need you playing net Daddy in some thinly veiled attempt to chastise them and in the process elevate yourself. Like I said, the door swings both ways so look in the mirror before you pass out more lessons.
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
09-25-2005 05:17
For me the opposite is true... Real life doesn't have a backspace key.

So in real life I'm 10 times worse than I am here :)

And no regrets - at least people know where I stand.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-25-2005 06:46
From: Eboni Khan
If this is the case, then forums are also a welcome haven for fake victims, net-nannys and self aggrandizing drama queens. Really the door swings both ways

There are a lot of drama queens in this forum and they aren't all the ones most commonly singled out as such. Some queen like behavior comes in the common form of being outraged (mock or otherwise) at someone's posts or comments. But it can be very queen like when someone writes a smarmy tome about some forum members percieved deficiencies, for example.

From: someone
If someone tells a poster that you are a dumbass on a forum breaks that persons heart then they probably need to re-evaluate their priorities.

Agreed. But that said, there really isn't need for people to be overly harsh or overly mean-spirited either. I've read some things here that could easily be RL upsetting to them.

I don't see this as always being a sign of weakness or misplaced priorities.

But your point is well taken. People will post what they're gonna post and it's better to ignore shenanigans.
From: someone
Like I said, the door swings both ways so look in the mirror before you pass out more lessons.

Good advice that everyone here should take to heart.
Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-25-2005 07:41
I find it amusing that instead of dealing with the problem people are saying, let's close the forums down.

The forums are a collection of scripts, textures, building advice, etc, just as much as SL. LL isn't going to give up the forums, and they probably wish they'd never made them, but they won't give it up.

As for the forum not creating revenue, this is true, but this is not a valid argument for staying with the current under-moderated state. Because it reflects badly on LL, it reflects badly on SL, and while it may never make them any revenue I can assure you if things keep up the way they are around here it will cost them revenue.

Get more moderators and tighten the leash, treat people like kids. Nanny them, babysit them. Sorry, but this is how online communities are properly moderated, and while it might get some players' panties in a bunch to feel "nannied" (I don't care personally) it'll certainly mean less headaches for LL and an improved image.

Or do you think concepts like the FIC, wether or not it is a reality or not, spontaneously combusted through no fault of LL's whatsoever? That they did nothing to contribute to the idea that they're badly organized, don't have strictly put down rules that they don't follow anyway, and that they might even play favourites?

The fact they can't maintain some semblance of order in these forums may lead to exaggeration and all the symptoms of the FIC.

But eh, this song and dance has been done before, and I'm sure as always my post will fade into oblivion.
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
09-25-2005 08:02
Emma,
I hate to say it, but you're probably right.

LL will keep the forums for various reasons, but they cannot
allow them to be a place of truely free speech, because they
need to continue to keep things looking "positive" and people
seem to have a general tendency toward negativity these days.

However, I feel their grip is ALREADY too tight, when
it's against forum policy to speak out for consumer
rights against whatever company may be taking advantage
of residents.

One solution, of course, is to have 3rd party site/forums
where we can speak up and tell our stories of perceived
abuse.

Other solutions might include starting some kind of
Better Business Bureau which is allowed to post
positive and negative experiences on SL businesses.

Ultimately... as long as one company (LL) is in total control
of the politics/government in "our world" we will not
really have The Metaverse.

Gabrielle
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-25-2005 08:11
Actually, what is needed is for someone with pull to open their own community forum. The folks who want the environment we have when the trolls aren't at play would instantly migrate there, leaving the social inepts to rise to the upper eschelon here.

Then, about six months from now, the migrators could return and heckle the social inepts for doing precisely the same thing they are currently berating the present upper eschelon for doing.

The only problem with this delicious bit of irony being that, within six months, none of the social inepts would remember their own beginnings long enough to grasp their complete hypocrisy.

Ah well.
_____________________
Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-25-2005 08:16
huh? did I hear something?
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
09-25-2005 08:21
From: Selador Cellardoor
I have an alternate theory, April. I believe that some people have a particular personality type. They are socially inept, feel inadequate, and tend to cowardice. When they get on a forum like this, they realise with delight that here they can be offensive as they like with impunity. They can upset people, they can bully, they can victimise, and there is no comeback. It is like paradise for them.

I remember CB radio, and it was the same then. Certain people behind a microphone would be vindictive and vicious, and when you met them face to face they were as meek as could be.

Can you imagine some of the people on here behaving like that in real life? They would be in hospital within a short time, and would ultimately find themselves receiving the Darwin Award.

I just wish they would take some time before posting, and imagine a real person sitting on the other side of their desk looking at them. Perhaps if that happened we might raise the level of civility on these forums to a minimal acceptable level.


I think your theory is also a possibility. But at the same time we can't discount the opinions behind these types of people even if we don't approve of their motivations. Maybe by understanding they exist, and have valid arguments, we can focus on the issues and not the personality types.

And we can all try to overlook the more aggressive types. I didn't say they were right or to give in, but just AR and move on. Or if you feel you are "being forced" to be aggressive, step back.

But sometimes, the same traits we berate others for exhibiting are the ones we show ourselves. And this doesn't make it right either way.
_____________________
From: Billybob Goodliffe
the truth is overrated :D

From: Argent Stonecutter
The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better?
Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-25-2005 08:37
From: blaze Spinnaker
huh? did I hear something?


So much for your pleas to be nice.
_____________________
Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-25-2005 08:47
From: Selador Cellardoor
Cristiano,

Yes, I know that is your view, and you also know that I don't agree that it is an accurate reflection of the situation.


Yes, I also know what your view is, and disagree that it iaccurate. As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. You know what though? When I think about things that have really upset me in these forums, I don't indict an entire group or the forums as a whole because of it. All these sweeping statements about the socially inept and amateurish psych analyses of people's motivations just adds to the acrimony, it does nothing to help diffuse it, because people are never treated as indiviudals with individual motivations, feelings, and responsibility.

Coddling people, or alternatively, criticising people does nothing - no one here answers to you, to me, or to anyone else. Do you honestly think that by vaguely characterizing someone as a socially inept coward who is big behind a keyboard, you aren't just making a personal attack you can get an exemption for because you didn't name names? Again, it comes down to a simple matter of judge yourself - you have no right to stand in judgement of anyone else.
_____________________
Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.

DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-25-2005 08:52
From: Cienna Samiam
Actually, what is needed is for someone with pull to open their own community forum. The folks who want the environment we have when the trolls aren't at play would instantly migrate there, leaving the social inepts to rise to the upper eschelon here.

Then, about six months from now, the migrators could return and heckle the social inepts for doing precisely the same thing they are currently berating the present upper eschelon for doing.

The only problem with this delicious bit of irony being that, within six months, none of the social inepts would remember their own beginnings long enough to grasp their complete hypocrisy.

Ah well.


Bwahahahaha.

The alleged "upper crust" here wouldn't be able to stand it. Without the so-called "lower class" to dump on they'd have nothing to do.

Dogspot! You Are Dissssmissssed!
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-25-2005 08:56
From: Cristiano Midnight
Coddling people, or alternatively, criticising people does nothing - no one here answers to you, to me, or to anyone else. Do you honestly think that by vaguely characterizing someone as a socially inept coward who is big behind a keyboard, you aren't just making a personal attack you can get an exemption for because you didn't name names? Again, it comes down to a simple matter of judge yourself - you have no right to stand in judgement of anyone else.


Very good post.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-25-2005 09:04
Cristiano, the sweeping comments about groups of people I can handle, though you are right they certainly don't help.

It's the interpersonal attacks which get a tad tiresome.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
09-25-2005 11:52
From: Eboni Khan
If this is the case, then forums are also a welcome haven for fake victims, net-nannys and self aggrandizing drama queens. Really the door swings both ways. If are will be to be doormats on forums are they doormats in RL? They must be. A person can affect you in the manner in which you let them. Part of being an adult is learning to control and prioritize your feelings. If someone tells a poster that you are a dumbass on a forum breaks that persons heart then they probably need to re-evaluate their priorities.


Selador, your constant attacks on people and their manners that you deem as inappropriate makes you no better than the people you ridicule. Everyone here is an adult and doesn’t need you playing net Daddy in some thinly veiled attempt to chastise them and in the process elevate yourself. Like I said, the door swings both ways so look in the mirror before you pass out more lessons.


I know you think I attacked Ulrika. I dispute that, but would be prepared to concede it.

I am ridiculing nobody. I find nothing remotely ridiculous or amusing in the situation.

I would like to know who else I have 'constantly attacked' please? Preferably with quotes?
_____________________
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
09-25-2005 11:56
From: Torley Torgeson
This is something I truely wish happened more. I'm just happy that the inverse is true too—people who are socially inadequate offline like myself find great solace and comfort in being here, and can be quite open to such a degree that makes lions out of domestic housecats.


I am glad that the socially inadequate can find themselves in second life, as I have said many times before. I take your word for it that you are socially inadequate, but certainly you have managed to find a balance between confidence and empathetic treatment of others.

However, lions are unpleasant animals to have around in social situations. I would prefer something a little tamer.
_____________________
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
09-25-2005 12:02
Posts should be read by the moderators before appearing. Improper posts should be rejected and not appear at all. This is the way some company product discussion forums are handled, and the policy works out fine for them.
_____________________
-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
09-25-2005 12:02
From: Cristiano Midnight
As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. You know what though? When I think about things that have really upset me in these forums, I don't indict an entire group or the forums as a whole because of it. All these sweeping statements about the socially inept and amateurish psych analyses of people's motivations just adds to the acrimony, it does nothing to help diffuse it, because people are never treated as indiviudals with individual motivations, feelings, and responsibility.

Coddling people, or alternatively, criticising people does nothing - no one here answers to you, to me, or to anyone else. Do you honestly think that by vaguely characterizing someone as a socially inept coward who is big behind a keyboard, you aren't just making a personal attack you can get an exemption for because you didn't name names? Again, it comes down to a simple matter of judge yourself - you have no right to stand in judgement of anyone else.


Who have I attacked? I have said there are some people like this on the forums. There are. You are not among them, although I have disagreed with you many times. In fact I don't even know all their names - one or two stand out, but the majority of them don't survive in my sieve-like memory. So I am not attacking a specific group of people. Those who feel that my words are directed at them should perhaps ask themselves why.

The reason I described the kind of person I think they are (and it wasn't an 'amateurish psych analysis' - I could produce a really professional-sounding amateurish psych analysis if I wanted to) - was that I hoped some people might recognise themselves and recognise the truth of what I was saying. Too many people have been hurt in these forums. It is not right.
_____________________
April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
09-25-2005 12:22
From: Selador Cellardoor
Who have I attacked? I have said there are some people like this on the forums. There are. You are not among them, although I have disagreed with you many times. In fact I don't even know all their names - one or two stand out, but the majority of them don't survive in my sieve-like memory. So I am not attacking a specific group of people. Those who feel that my words are directed at them should perhaps ask themselves why.

The reason I described the kind of person I think they are (and it wasn't an 'amateurish psych analysis' - I could produce a really professional-sounding amateurish psych analysis if I wanted to) - was that I hoped some people might recognise themselves and recognise the truth of what I was saying. Too many people have been hurt in these forums. It is not right.



I think it's all a matter of perception. You feel like you haven't attacked anyone, but at the same time, someone might fel like you have attacked them.

I think the irony is that everyone seems to want the same thing, a peaceful forum, for the most part. We just have to find a way to make that happened.

I think we should all start with two wrongs don't make a right.
_____________________
From: Billybob Goodliffe
the truth is overrated :D

From: Argent Stonecutter
The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better?
Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-25-2005 13:05
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
Posts should be read by the moderators before appearing. Improper posts should be rejected and not appear at all. This is the way some company product discussion forums are handled, and the policy works out fine for them.
Eboni,

Instead of putting so much heat on poor Selador, I would instead love to see you focus on SuezanneC. She's become quite the robotic forum nanny lately posting pseudo-professional assessments of a thread or post's fitness to exist along with the occasional call to group AR posts. They are always off topic, disruptive, and a tad bit rude. Perhaps your mighty hammer of justice could find a new nail to pound upon? :D

~Ulrika~
_____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
09-25-2005 13:12
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
Posts should be read by the moderators before appearing. Improper posts should be rejected and not appear at all. This is the way some company product discussion forums are handled, and the policy works out fine for them.


ACK!!

Let me know when this happens...
I'll stop posting here and that will save
the Forum Police more time spent reading.

In the mean time...
Who has 3rd party sites set up now
with SL based forums? Any URLs?
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-25-2005 13:21
From: Gabrielle Assia
ACK!!

Let me know when this happens...
I'll stop posting here and that will save
the Forum Police more time spent reading.

In the mean time...
Who has 3rd party sites set up now
with SL based forums? Any URLs?


Did someone say Forum Police?? :D
_____________________
*hugs everyone*
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-25-2005 13:27
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
09-25-2005 13:40
From: Gabrielle Assia
...
In the mean time...
Who has 3rd party sites set up now
with SL based forums? Any URLs?


Cristiano Midnight has long had an excellent, extremely professional website with the url of secondlife.com

SLuniverse forums do, I believe, have some rules regarding content, but they are much more lax than the PG standard that applies to all broadly viewable areas of Second Life.

Cris's sluniverse.com also has a knowledgebase with some excellent information on it including Eboni Khan's excellent tutorial on alpha texturing.

sluniverse.com also has a java chat client for engaging in the the #secondlife IRC chat.

sluniverse.com also has links for SL related voice chat software.

sluniverse.com is also the home of Snapzilla.

Every single Second Life user should examine the many resources available at Cristiano's outstanding sluniverse.com site.
_____________________
-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-
Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
09-25-2005 13:40
From: Enabran Templar




Ok. Hand over the copy of After Effects. I can only see that this will get worse.
1 2 3 4 5 6