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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-24-2005 15:01
From: Cristiano Midnight
Considering that the forums provide no income I cannot see them honestly putting much more time and effort into them, other than the effort it takes to pull the plug on them. There are so many more important areas of SL that need additional resources that would benefit all of SL, not just the minority that uses the forums. That should definitely take priority over adding moderators.

Thought of something else, Cristiano. You said, "considering that the forums provide no income." Not directly, they don't. But done right, they can be a wonderful service for the players and foster a sense of community. The PR of that is worth it, and provides income indirectly.

I would say the forums as they are, though, actually cost LL money, and more than just the cost of moderating them.

coco
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
09-24-2005 15:01
From: Editorial Hare
SL is a 3D virtual world. That is what we pay for. We don't pay to have a dozen Linden Lab moderators constantly watching and controling a text based troll magnet.

Somebody give this Hare a carrot :)
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-24-2005 15:34
From: Editorial Hare
SL is a 3D virtual world. That is what we pay for. We don't pay to have a dozen Linden Lab moderators constantly watching and controling a text based troll magnet. We could get that feature for free anywhere else on the internet.

The fourm is a bug, not a feature.
In case you hadn't noticed, their stewardship of what we ostensibly do pay for is about at competent as that which you say we don't.

So long as they continue to operate the forums, no third-party site - of which there are a few itching for the opportunity - has a chance. LL continues to oporate this site because they either a) view it as some net benefit or b) wish to control the discourse regarding SL.

We could get it elsewhere for free; methinks LL prefers the monopoly control.
Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
09-24-2005 15:49
From: Introvert Petunia
In case you hadn't noticed, their stewardship of what we ostensibly do pay for is about at competent as that which you say we don't.

So long as they continue to operate the forums, no third-party site - of which there are a few itching for the opportunity - has a chance. LL continues to oporate this site because they either a) view it as some net benefit or b) wish to control the discourse regarding SL.

We could get it elsewhere for free; methinks LL prefers the monopoly control.


Monopoly does not count in this case: People come to these forums because it's convinent, not because it's the only game in town.

But the truth is, the forums are not going away, because at least here, they have some measure of control over the foolishness that goes on here... Picture if it was run by a third party and the flamewars were allowed to REALLY get out of hand.

Can you say civil war? Sure you can!
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-24-2005 16:18
From: Foolish Frost
Monopoly does not count in this case: People come to these forums because it's convinent, not because it's the only game in town.

But the truth is, the forums are not going away, because at least here, they have some measure of control over the foolishness that goes on here... Picture if it was run by a third party and the flamewars were allowed to REALLY get out of hand.

Can you say civil war? Sure you can!
I can also picture it being run more competently by a third party with considerably fewer flamewars. The alternate sites are there yet no one uses them, why might that be? I contend that it is because LL has chosen a third-party forum service and makes its integration with the rest of the SL space very high, much like they say they will be doing with the currency exchange market. In both of these cases though LL, is the "third-party".

What is LL's stated reason for integrating the currency exchange market into their own services? Because registering for third-party services is "too inconvenient". Saying that LL isn't using monopoly power is very much akin to saying Microsoft doesn't behave monopolisticly and pointing at the existence of Linux as proof (which Microsoft does while simultaneously trying to kill Linux).

I think there is a word for an entitiy which is almost, but not quite a monopoly but I forget what it is. For comparison's sake, the US Sherman Anti-Trust Act does not apply only to firms that have a total "monopoly" but firms that use their very large presence in a market to exert anti-competitive control over their and related markets. Note: I'm not saying the Sherman Act applies to Linden Lab, merely that the concepts are related and that one need not have a strict 100% monopoly to exert anti-competitive forces.
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
09-24-2005 16:21
From: DogSpot Boxer
She, actually. ;-)



No. Prok is a guy.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
09-24-2005 16:22
Not to be obtuse or anything, but what exactly happened to start this new wave of "omg the forum mob is out to get us!" stuff? Seriously. What did I miss?
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
09-24-2005 16:23
From: Chip Midnight
Not to be obtuse or anything, but what exactly happened to start this new wave of "omg the forum mob is out to get us!" stuff? Seriously. What did I miss?
It's not new. It's just a recent surge in the old one.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
09-24-2005 16:23
From: Chip Midnight
Not to be obtuse or anything, but what exactly happened to start this new wave of "omg the forum mob is out to get us!" stuff? Seriously. What did I miss?


Hegemony was the word of the day on www.webster.com last week.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
09-24-2005 16:27
*shrug* I'll never quite understand the "us versus them" crowd. Nor do I think LL should hire staff for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from calling me an asshat. My ego's just not that important :p
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-24-2005 16:32
From: Chip Midnight
*shrug* I'll never quite understand the "us versus them" crowd. Nor do I think LL should hire staff for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from calling me an asshat. My ego's just not that important :p

No, but there are plenty of others - good people - who will leave when faced with such an environment.

coco
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
09-24-2005 16:33
From: Chip Midnight
*shrug* I'll never quite understand the "us versus them" crowd. Nor do I think LL should hire staff for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from calling me an asshat. My ego's just not that important :p



That's soul pupose.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-24-2005 16:34
From: Chip Midnight
Not to be obtuse or anything, but what exactly happened to start this new wave of "omg the forum mob is out to get us!" stuff? Seriously. What did I miss?

DogSpot got responded to with an incredibly snide and demeaning post when he presented his thoughts on a topic in another thread (in Land and Economy maybe it was). Same thing happened to the other two, when they spoke up on the issue in general, to say they didn't like the lack of respect in the forums either (paraphrasing).

coco
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
09-24-2005 16:36
From: Kendra Bancroft
That's soul pupose.


I don't believe in those ;)
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
09-24-2005 16:38
From: Chip Midnight
I don't believe in those ;)



BTW have I mentioned how your templates are like manna from the heavens?
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-24-2005 16:40
From: Chip Midnight
*shrug* I'll never quite understand the "us versus them" crowd. Nor do I think LL should hire staff for the sole purpose of preventing anyone from calling me an asshat. My ego's just not that important :p


You're an asshat. :D
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
09-24-2005 16:41
From: Kendra Bancroft
BTW have I mentioned how your templates are like manna from the heavens?


Yes, just now actually! :) Thankya.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
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09-24-2005 16:42
From: DogSpot Boxer
You're an asshat. :D


Jeska!!! (just kidding) :D
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-24-2005 16:51
From: Kendra Bancroft
No. Prok is a guy.


I thought he was talking about Coco.
Julian Fate
80's Pop Star
Join date: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,020
09-24-2005 16:55
From: Chip Midnight
Not to be obtuse or anything, but what exactly happened to start this new wave of "omg the forum mob is out to get us!" stuff? Seriously. What did I miss?

It's just a usual weekend at the primate house. The monkeys don't have to work and with too much time (and feces) on their hands it's easy to start flinging.
Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
09-24-2005 17:25
From: Cocoanut Koala

I don't think the problem is the moderators themselves. I think the problem is not enough moderators.


We need less personal attacks, less trolling, less AR'ing. The community team is a fine size and the are doing a great job. I'd rather see LL hire more programmers. For people who feel like they "have to" hit the AR button a lot... well... maybe you should stay away from the forums. A dedicated forum monitor is a waste of resources. SL is about the metaverse not about the web based forums.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
09-24-2005 17:27
From: Satchmo Prototype
We need less personal attacks, less trolling, less AR'ing. The community team is a fine size and the are doing a great job. I'd rather see LL hire more programmers. For people who feel like they "have to" hit the AR button a lot... well... maybe you should stay away from the forums. A dedicated forum monitor is a waste of resources. SL is about the metaverse not about the web based forums.



What Satchmo said :rolleyes:
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-24-2005 17:27
From: Kendra Bancroft
That's soul pupose.


No, it's

The Sooooullll Train.

With your host, Don Cornelius
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-24-2005 17:29
From: Selador Cellardoor
A very out-of-character remark, if you don't mind my saying so. And also I think it's a remark that is easy for one to say who has not been the victim of relentless and ugly forum bullying.



Selador, I'm sorry. But Chip was called FIC and has had to defend himself and try and make others belive that he is an individual as much as a many others of us have. Yes. Chip has been the victim of forum bullying. I've seen it.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-24-2005 17:31
From: Cocoanut Koala
God forbid there would be enough moderation to convince people they ought to pay attention to the TOS. God forbid anything should get in the way of your god-given right to call me whatever you like regardless of what the TOS says.


The day you live by your own campaign, will be the day I actually start standing behind you.
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