Wwiiol Pwned You!

Hope your guns shoot straight! If they don't, field strip and rescript. Beyond that, blame it on the Lindens

Very cool to see this gang here. Welcome.

Large scale combat will be great to reveal bugs/design problems in the system. So lets see 'em. We fix and redesign very quickly around here.

Oh and on the subject of land... we'll be adding more very soon, have no fear! We will add land regularly at the rate of incoming users - the physical size of the world will be a direct function of the number of residents.

Seek out the old-timers (closed beta and alpha users) for some bigtime help with weapons scripting. Frankly I'd be terrified to see what they can come up with. They'll put the hurt on simple projectile guns, I can tell you that!

W00t!

Thanks for welcoming us!

I was worried that this game wouldn't find war-like behavior acceptable, even in the Outlands.

This is very encouraging to hear. I envision a world very much like that of MAD MAX. That would be incredible.

Hey all you WWIIOLerz, this is Zeddicus Smith from the Noise Tanks over in Varney, just posting to say hi and welcome, I know from expereance (right before you came I was muscled out of the outlands by a "Ritious Community" mob) how hard it is to forge your own path, and i cant wait to see what kinda weapons o war you guys come up with (a reallyreallyreally big cannon please ).

Anyway, if you guys ever need a break from the killin an' spillin, come on over to Benton Cho(the Neo city in Varney). We have free housing (10x10x apartments) for all who need it and more High Rises going up as fast as money allows. Just talk to myself or Rygar Grimm in game.

Let's make one thing perfectly clear, Zeddicus.

You were "muscled out" for actions YOU took...and as the rumor mill would tell the tale, this was more about your ABUSE in the area, rather than the established community's negative reaction to your tower of lag.

Please do not confuse the issues and go out of your way to try to create enemies between other parties when you, yourself, are not even relaying the events as they happened.

Reposting the town hall meeting here.

This is meant to say hello to the new residents, and discuss the world of Second Life and its possibilities with respect to war games, current residents, and world expansion.

Town hall meeting, 2:30 amphitheatre. Philip, Peter, and Haney will be in attendance.

For the new people, the amphitheatre is to the north, on the border of clara and varney.

Standard behavior for amphitheatre events is:
Everyone sits
Person on the stage has the floor
Chat should be limited to Q&A, please use IM for all "private" conversations.
Please do not build or do anything to keep conversation from being productive.


-Peter

Hello all of you WW2OLers...

Although I live in Shipley, near the Hawethorne border, I don't mind if you have your little "war-games", as long as it is kept in check and amongst other like-minded people.

Make some sort of rule that only people in military garb can be fired upon, or something similar... near the Hawthorne/Shipley border and near Omega Industries, we have a nice little community group that is by the water and love the scenery there. Now, I don't want to be working on my house with a beautiful view and suddenly get picked off just because I happen to be hovering just off of my own property to adjust something on the outside... and neither do my neighbors.

Unless you build your "bases" in an area with like minded people, please be respectful of others in an area.

All I ask is that you do not bring a war into an already populated area... all this talk about "protection money" and building bases within residential areas remind me of a certain dictator of a certain country... something a little more recent than WW II.

To be honest, it sounds like the now open Planetside MMOG seems more down your alley than Second Life, but I do still respect your presence in this world... just as long as you do the same to the others here.

Thank you for listening to me.

Bye bye for now,
Alexis

While 99% of the people in this thread have understood the concept of what the outlands are, there is still 1% that still refuse to accept the fact that the outlands are just that - out of bounds. (Well almost). You can't live in the outlands and then get your panties in a wad because you see or experience things that the outlands where designed for. Deeblue, Lyra, and many others have my respect because they accept the concept of the outlands and haven't cried about it. Telling people to confine their style of play to their land and there people is rediculous. This world will grow stale if there is no interation and yes, forced interaction, conflict, is one component of the components to keep a world alive and fresh. To those who can't handle conflict, you need to move back out of the outlands. If it is too expensive to live the style you are accustom to, then you need to realize that maybe you failed to appreciate the risk/reward benefit of your actions. With risk comes reward. Land is cheaper in the outlands for a reason.

Hi All!

Peter is going to post a longer summary as a separate thread, but we made some changes to make this situation more fun (we think), and had a town hall meeting to discuss today at 2:30PST:

We've moved the outlands wall and removed the 'heath-enabled' sim-wide status of the 4 original outlands sims.

As a new outlands/fighting area, we've moved jessie to the SW corner of the outlands, and put the gate up in front of it. It is Mature-rated, and Health enabled.

So Jessie is the new no-holds-barred fight club, and the former Outlands are no longer globally health-enabled. As always, you can enable fighting on your own land as your own choice.

Hope this is fun! SL is YOUR WORLD - we'll be adding lots of self-governance to make changes like this totally user controlled, and in the meantime we try to make our best guess as to what everyone likes. Let us know (on the separate thread) what you would like to see next.

CEO Philip (Philip Linden)

war gamers welcome. although i am not a violent guy i wouldn't mind playing few games of pvp when i am bored.

and as for the topic of "anything goes" in the outlands... yes, it is true that outlands are designed to be where "anything goes" and technically... u really can go around killing random people but this brings up a question about whether u should be doing something because they are technically allowed.

people can technically go around killing strangers in real life too but we don't do this... why? because we have well defined consequences in most countries about killing another human being. and why do generations and generations of people follow such rules of conduct? because past generations and generations of people have already defined how people should behave and most people have come to agree with these socially defined rules of conduct.

now most of you are probably wondering.. wtf is this talking about? and here is where i make my point.

in the spirit of "anything goes"... we, the older residents of outlands have decided on certain rules of conduct. and just like how it is in the real world, people can decide to follow these laws and rules or dismiss them. the choice is up to anyone who is alive. but just like how killing someone can land u in a jail or cheating on your gf can leave u being hated by all her friends... there will be consequences to the choices u make even in SL because you are dealing with real people.

at this point... there are few options available to the older residents of the outlands and the newer and more aggressive players.

1) army people can completely ignore the existing laws created by the older residents and face the general alienation, negative rating, etc...

2) respect the existing laws that older players have created and keep whatever u guys wanna do within the confines of your own base.

3) force all the older residents to change how they should play this game.

just remember that the choices u make will have consequences even in a game because online communities are made up of real people playing the game.

other than that... good luck in the game and i hope u guys enjoy the experience as much as i've been enjoying mine. let's not try to spoil each others fun.

PS. carrying a gun and wearing a fatigue is not a good way to make a good first impression.

PPS. saying things like... "u must be stupid to talk to me that way cuz i am carrying a gun" is not a good way to conduct a civilized conversation.

Alright, most people seem to be missing the entire point of what The Oulands used to stand for: Complete Anarchy

Those of you "old" SL residents moved into the outlands knowing full well a day might come when someone challenged your rule, and now its not being very well recieved is it?

Im not writing this to piss people off (our conflict is over Voodoo, im not going to drudge up an old war now that we live 1/2 way across the world from you), just to inform you of MY view on things(tho the lord knows I may be wrong...).

I know there are resons you guys moved to the outlands in the first place (pretty view originally, and lots of cheap space), but I still fail to sympathize since if the WWIIOLerz or a similar group had been the "old" SL residents, the outlands would be exactly what the name conjured up: A Mad-Max style PvP No Man's Land where the Strong survive and the Weak dont stop by.

Linden seems to have put alot of thought into how each person has a creative(sometimes immature) output that needs to be catered too. Hence, all but, what, 2 sims? are dedicated to peacefull building.

Im not trying to tell anyone what to do or not to do, this is a sticky situation with no clear outcome. I am biased twords the WWIIOLers, for they seem to have captured my view of the "spirit" of the outlands.

I know space was crowded, but now its even more so, and we (The Noise Tanks) still found plenty of room to build Benton Cho, and its an incentive to build next to neighbors because of the tax relief, so please dont use that argument again.

Anyhoo, this is just my take on the situation, my understanding, and my vision of what the outlands(and hopefully this new sim) should have been.

I missed the town meeting due to work....

I was in SL when all of a sudden my life gauge vanished, now I know why.

Needless to say there are others who've been in outlands longer than I have, but I have been here for a bit now and seemed to integrate into the "established" population quite well, at least I like to think so.

Although I'm not a part of this new crowd of folks from world war 2 online, that is still where I hail from. Being from a combat sim environment is exactly why I chose to live in the outlands.....now I find that I have to move to a new area because folks that built in a hazardous environment wish to live in an area with no hazards.

The few folks that complained enough to turn the hazardous area safe, because they felt a few folks had ruined their fun, have in turn ruined mine.

I've even witnessed first hand one "established" person build a somewhat 60ft high wall 5ft away from a structure built buy this new crowd because they deemed the new building an eyesore, most likely not taking into consideration that a 60ft high white wall ain't exactly a glorious piece of eye candy.

If my dwelling...also a ww2 era bunker had been deemed as unpleasant to 1 or more...would I also have such a wall around myself? What if I wanted to view the building they created, but have difficulty doing so due to an ungodly gigantic wall. This is just like folks who complain about something they don't like to see being on television...turn the channel for gods sake, turn your eyes elsewhere.

I don't like everything I see in SL either but ya don't see me buying strips of land to build walls around them...I don't like it but the person who built it obviously does, who am I to personally decide what they should and shouldn't build.

I don't like being shot every 5 seconds...but I built in an area where its a risk. Now if I move to this new area, how long before someone else complains and that area is changed as well...folks say respect the folks that were already there, well, the lindens built the area with risk as a factor, but I assume folks don't wanna respect and live with that.

I don't care much for the "we're gonna move in and take over this town" mentality either, however this is a very small dose of whats to come. I also don't care for the "we're the upper crust establishment and you're gonna play the downtrodden commoner" thing either.

Just noticed 135 replies in under 3 days.

Aychcee, you should come over to our little island and view all our bunkers that have been set up. Davada has also made a French 1937 Anti-Tank gun, while BlackSix has made a nice motorcycle and coastal gun.

Already ahead of you Dedagn....

Tore down my building and sold land in Federal and raised land from ocean on sw corner of ya'lls island and rebuilt.

Thankg god I pre-fabbed my bunker when I'd built it

oh man you guys missed the best party ever!

I know, I would have been there if I hadnt CTD.

What GDed party?!?

Linden will be happy to turn the health-damage function back on in any of the Outlands regions if it's clear that the property-owners desire it.

Okay I am going to try and be a little diplomatic about this, but forgive me if this pisses you off, Aychcee.

When the WW2OLers arrived here and began our SL, there were a few problems. Sturm Valen (Sturm22) was a little bit upset with our behavior in the Outlands. He told us we shouldnt be disruptive and we should try to fit into this community better.

It seems to me that idea has backfired on you ToT folks. I am sure the ToT guys and the WW2OLers had very similar ideas about what the Outlands were for. The difference is in the way we dealt with it. You guys decided to fit in and tried to not disrupt the player imposed order in the Outlands while the WW2OLer decided to play the Outlands in a way the game designers intended.

By fitting in, you defeated your own reasons for moving to the Outlands. Now you are upset because you moved into an area you thought you could fight in, found that the residents didnt like fights, and conformed to the wishes of the residents. Do you see the problem here? You guys GREATLY contributed to the solution the Lindens came up with. Heck, Sturm22 was treating me like a greifer on the WW2OL boards. He told me that we should conform to the wishes of the residents in Outlands the way ToT did.

Well...see where that got you?

It is admirable to try and fit in to a gaming community. But it is also the right of every gamer to play the game within the limits set by the game's designers...Linden Labs. Even if that upsets some people. There is a balance that must be found and its up to everyone individually to find it. The way I see it, you guys were more concerned with fitting in and causing no problems than you were concerned with playing the game the way you want, within Linden's limits. You went along with the rules imposed by the Outlands residents for awhile, but now you dont like the rules that Linden has had to impose due to the resident's rules and lifestyle...rules and lifestyles you guys, until today, accepted.

All I can say is....you guys did this to yourselves. From what I see now, the Outlands residents are happy...the WW2OLers are happy...the only people who arent happy are the wargamers still in the Outlands who tried to fit in and found thier battleground taken away.

Sorry guys, thats the way I see it.

Avondell

Is Aychcee even ToT?

Dedagn , yup I'm ToT...even have a ToT sign on my bunker

Avondell ...I see no reason why I'd get pissed at your post, I found nothing insulting with it.

Within my first 2 days there we had maybe 7-8 guys here in SL...we'd all built up that area of Federal we were in, I figured out where to buy a gun...told the others and with the speed of why on a start trek movie they don't give folks guns without them, we started blazing away on each other. Within a half hour, 4-5 of the established locals flew over to see what all the ruckus was....and then they joined in...I remodified my bunker after that due to dying many many times.

I just don't understand why when we basicaly had the same starting circumstances, why is it that you guys got the massive cold shoulder. Is it that for my first few days I didn't mention I came from WW2, thinking these folks feared the gun toting mentality...maybe.... I didn't mention it, we'd had several gunfights, then after wards I'd talk about ww2 and a few of them sounded interested.

You guys are even building the exact same thing I did, a concrete bunker...why is ya'lls frowned upon where mine wasn't. I even had a construction problem when building by you guys it was settled easily and quickly however, I raised some land that was in the way of someones pier they wanted to build....did they have a cow over it? No, they simply asked if I could edge off one corner of the area I'd made...easily done and both of us were happy.

I don't necessarily wanna get blown away every 5 seconds...but if I'm in a neighborhood where I know that danger is a possibility and I get knocked off by a stray bullet, well...thats life..or second life as the case may be.

That makes sense, Aychcee. I think the attitude the WW2OLers had coming in contributed greatly (<-understatement) to our reception. I think the changes you guys were bringing to the area (I'm guessing) were slower coming and harder to see than our obvious intentions. People seem to like changing slowly and balk at overnight changes, so I agree...you are probably right.

In any case, its an interesting study in human behavior

I hope things work out for you guys and everyone.

Avondell

While I can only speak for myself, I do recall the Valen "invasion" (for lack of a better term). I was more interested in why so many people with the same choice of l/n logged than anything. I was wary but given a little time everyone relaxed.

Large numbers seem to be a contributing factor.

With the latest "invasion" the numbers were (are) signifcantly higher & most got in camo right away. wwiiol members could be seen flying around in large numbers. I myself was a little disconcerted but waited to see what was up. The thing that really raised a flag for me was the title of this post & subsequent posts were at times abrasive and inflammatory.

While there are groups that RP here, most are just themselves. If you were in character while posting that is not something most are used to here. Aggression has not been a big factor here so I think it all just built on itself,

Anyway, now that the dust has seemingly settled I hope that the next large group that comes in, whoever they may be, has a smoother transition. SL is going to get to a point of growing by leaps and bounds and we have luxuries now we won't have later (Town hall meetings for instance - due to server constraints).

On this subject, sim leaders, or mini governments as discussed are a good idea. We shouldnt let that topic die.

If you SL'ers think we're aggresive on the boards now...you should have seen our boards when WWIIOL was in beta.

Hell....you should see them now!

We'll tear each other down on an hourly basis and prop each other up when it's necessary.

no kiddin Blacksix....and whats even worse is now I'm hanging out with british and french ww2 guys that otherwise I'd be trying to blow their heads off