Four's Company, Five's a Crowd?

We generally never get to the solution round of a Prokofy discussion because the problem du jour doesn't exist, so it is hard to propose solutions for it.

As I suspected of course, you won't answer that question, there will be no answer, because your argument is completely off-base, and you know it.

In fact, the whole premise of this thread is a troll, as evidenced by the appearance of several person's company names whom you have personal issues with, because they refute your trite, dramatic, jargonistic, divisive suppositions. Oh yeah, I am SURE that's just a coincidence. What a lame attempt to hide attacking people and their businesses, whom you don't like, behind an invented problem. Monopolies - SHAH!

What is your solution for your imagined problem?

If it's anything along the lines of the thinking displayed in your ridiculously off-base Bell System analogy, you're nuts.

What? Should we break CMFF into "Baby Chips"?

Chip,

You need to do a line of clothing for the booming preggers market in SL, and you must call it Baby Chips. Please!

LOL! I'll get to work on that right away.

hey, I'm all for antitrust law, but I believe that you let the free market fight it out until an anti-competitive environment becomes clear, and we are definitely not there. What you see now are first movers, that is all. The reason you don't see more competition is that the rewards are so intangible and risky right now, so there are few market entrants when it comes to large scale projects.



lol - my definition of a metaverse is a lot more technically advanced



ok, back that up in detail pls. To use cristiano as an example (sorry cris) -- the way I see it, they can post pictures to their home site from any source they choose. And any other photo site could offer an email-to-post service as well.



fierce posturing and positioning? LOL. Businesses in SL are by-and-large still hobbies.

besides, the people who have been effective at marketing and brand building in SL, you try to tear down as FIC. In your world, anyone who stands out, anyone who accomplishes leadership because of savvy and hard work, deserves to be beaten down. Then you try to pander to mob mentality by making accusations of favoritism, conspiracies, victimization...

I guess i did get a weee bit off topic hehe. won't happen again! But I just dont see how this ONE designer thing is going through your mind... I love the way that not every type of clothing looks the same.

But they don't. There's just one. Like there's "just one" in other sectors. I don't get why this is so hard to see.

Hiding behind calling it "a game" doesn't cut it -- it's a "game" when you want to prevail on one point, then "not a game" any more when you want to make another point?



If by being "effective" you mean getting Linden endorsement because the Lindens themselves are drawn from the ranks of old players, if by being "effective" you mean getting named in the experts' articles because the experts are steered, if by being "effective" you mean capturing the newbie stream because they get the referrals, if by being "effective" you mean filling a niche and keeping it because competition isn't possible, sure, they're "effective" LOL. But that sounds more like the game of high school than the game of "real life". Show me what is "hard worK" for example having carte blanche to brand in the Welcome Area because you have kewl content or grab newbie streams because you're a "helper" or 100 other ways in which the favour bank is worked.

Where's the mob? Looks more like one voice in the wilderness lol.

Yes i Noticed!!! Its an outrage, it cant be tolerated!!! Something must be done!!!!

We cant have this now can we?

Turns transmission frequency up higher.

Enabran, good suggestions earlier, would you be interested in coming over to the dark side?

"I have here five apples!"

"No you don't! There's just one!"

Really, Prok, that's what your sounding like right now.

You are simply flat out ignoring the fact that there is not "just one" in every field, but rather a vast multitude, many of which are doing extremely well.

You are simply flat out ignoring the fact that even in the case of SLPics (Which admitedly is the biggest at the moment), it was not the first, thereby poking a whole in your "After it's done once, nobody does it again" theory.

You are simply flat out ignoring the question: Even if you were right, which you aren't, what on earth can you do about it? Punish the successfull because others refused to try?

If you don't address each of these points you're simply evading the topic, thus you are simply stirring up trouble for kicks.

But there is one on top which is vocal, and which controls things like the newbie stream and the impressions on the forums. That's easy to demonstrate. I'm not getting why you don't see it.



You're missing the point here again. I'm not talking about websites with SL pics on them. Hell, even I have a blog and a website with SL screenshots on it. Anybody can do it. I'm talking about a website that can use the LL e-mail technology and also *get on the front page*. There's only one that does that, and you can understand how only one is likely to be able to do it. I'd be curious if anyone else is able to get LL to put them on their website too. In fact, it might turn out that the technology to do this is copyrighted and anyone attempting to do this would find themselves slapped with a lawsuit by LL or Cristiano or both. That's what I mean by sewing up things.



But I *am* right. There are only a few slots or niches for third-party partnership with LL to be on the website, or to own the market share of cellphones, or whatever. The market is limited, the niches in it are limited. So to the smart ones will take advantage of this very closed system now and get in on the ground floor and dominate it for ever more.

What can you do about it? I don't see what you can do about it except report on it and discuss it, as I am not technically inclined so as to try to do the workarounds for it.

I've seen more than one time that somebody has a hammerlock on an area in SL and makes a hefty profit from it, and someone breaking into that market and competing is afraid even to advertise, and tries to sell quietly by word of mouth, so as to avoid being slammed and bullied by the people already dominating the field, and or facing loads of vindictive griefing just shy of Linden action, etc. to force them to their knees.

It's funny you should conceive of this as "punishing". I guess that's because being in the FIC, that's how you see how things should be done -- to "punish" somebody either through the misuse of the AR system, getting "your" Lindens to work it, or through threats and intimidation tactics.

I wouldn't do it that way. I'd simply report on it, discuss it, see what those parties doing the dominating themselves think of the situation, see whether they are mature enough and big enough to realize it as a potential problem for the world as a whole.

Um, Kilroy, let me break it down to you, buddy, since you're new. And now, I have no little transmitter in my ear listening to your broadcasts, and yes, I noticed that when I rezzed the object you pushed on me on land, it had a script in it to take a landmark, but probably nothing more than that. Um, my tinfoil hat is intact so I don't uh fear your transmission.

Anyone who thinks they are going to "take over the world" by "agreeing with Prok" is going to go about two steps on that, then fall flat on their ass.

I'm universally hated by posters on the forums, though I'm admired by some of those who don't post and many in world. But that's just not going to be the social base you'll need for taking over the world -- it's just too diverse, and run by completely different people you'll have to contend with.

If you want to take over SL, I'd advise the following steps:

o have job objects to pay out money to newbies way more than money balls or free casinos or money trees, that also harvest their keys, and any thing else you can shake down from them like all their preferences so you can use the marketing info and maybe even sell it
o give them free or $1 land but surrounded by 512s they'll be compelled to pay top dollar for as they decorate
o sell them basic bling or give free bling but then have them buy hugely expensive bling in only 2-3 stores that look like they're different but which you really control
o have cool vehicles that you give away for free but which lead them to spend at least $3000 within 30 days to upgrade
o have sex clubs where they can dance and look for free but then have the meter start running really high once they ask to go to the skybox
o make sure the tinted-window houses where they can have av sex cost a fortune
o with as many friends and relatives and strangers you can muster, use up as many cards as you can to create alts and then hire a Chinese Internet worker for a song to log in all the alts and generate traffic on your club
o invent some really groovay, shiny cool thing that gets media coverage and helps the game so your fix with the Lindens stays fixed

Wait...I think people did that already...whoops Kilian I think the world-domination niches are already filled, dude! Come back in 90 days and try your luck again.

Because as I said elsewhere, "vocal on the forums" does not equat to "success in world"... Some of the most successfull designers I know are all but - or entierly - absent from the forums.



For the bolded text: You wanna pay my hosting fees? I could do it. It's not a difficult process. The reason nobody else is, yet, is because it would be expensive. Personally Cris is welcome to shoulder that particular burden. But make no mistake: Because Cris is the only one doing it does not mean Cris is the only one that can or will. A + B only equals C if B is a true statement, which in this case it isn't.

For the red text: FUD. Speculation. Absolutely nothing solid to back this claim up at all.

And laughably wrong, to boot. First of all, software recieves patents, not copyrights. Copyrights only protect one specific program, patents protect a method. Second of all, I promise you, there is sufficient prior art to the effect of "extracting content from an e-mail and displaying it automaticly on a web page" that no such patent would hold water, even if someone was crazy enough to file one and drag it to court. Which I know Cris wouldn't do, and it's not LL's place to do it even if they would.



Your right and wrong at the same time: Fact, there is a limited market. This is true everywhere. What your wrong about is that one person has the ability to lock it down that easily, which they don't. The wonder of free-market capitalism: Just make a better product, or market an infirior one better, or hell, just wait around for the big names to get lazy, and your in. It happens constantly in the real world, and it happens in SL.




I've seen this happen a *little* in land baroning. I've never seen it happen in the other fields. Unless your willing to offer proof, I don't believe you. Plain and simple.



But there isn't a problem. So nobody is going to see it, except you, since you have a nack for that sort of thing. Seeing problems where there are none, and whatnot.

And yes, it would be 'punishing' the successfull people to do anything about it. Just like breaking up Bell into baby bells was "punishment". What else do you call it?

Well, isn't that what it is? And when your software only has relevance and meaning when it hooks up to some other company's software that consists of a game and its ability to allow internal screenshots, and its internal e-mailing function, well, what have you got? I mean, it's probably something you can't take over to World of Warcraft or something.

Now, you still aren't hearing me about the niche issue. The niche is the spot on the front page. There aren't going to be many who get that -- in fact, there's just one now and it's likely to stay that way.

You'd be surprised how many people already do see this as a problem, but they do not feel empowered to speak, nor act.

Yeah, making up people who don't exist is always a good way to bolster a completely discredited argument.

How many lights do you see Captain Picard? How many lights?!!!

No. No, no, no it isn't Prok.

One specific program: Microsoft Word
One specific program: Sun Star Office
One specific program: Corel Word Perfect

One type of program: Word processor

The software Cris uses at SLPics is probably just some scripts running on a linux box somewhere. It's nothing terribly complex, no offense to Cris. Anyone could duplicate it with a minimal amount of coding and web-design knowledge. But unless they actually haxx0red Cris' computers and stole his specific scripts that he made to do it, it's not copyright infringement in any way.



That's what it all comes down to, isn't it. All of this, every bit of it, was to prop up an attack against SLPics, wasn't it?

No thanks Prok, not playing that game.



I don't give a damn about cowards. If you don't have the guts to speak your mind, I really don't care much about your opinion, because obviously you don't either. THat's why for all I loath your attitude and find your opinions rediculous and comicly wrong, I have a certain respect for you, Prok. You'll say what you want, anyone else be damned. Anyone can do that.

That said, a feeling of a problem does not equate to a real problem. I used to think exactly the way you are thinking, Prok, believe it or not. Then I've seen, time and time again, just how wrong I was. I can't count how many times I've seen newbies rise from obscurity to greatness on skill and marketing alone.

Yep, and often over a very short period of time. And Reitsuki I think you hit the nail on the head. This whole premise was cooked up by Prok just so he could take a few swipes at Cristiano and SLPics.

This was exactly what I was thinking. Though you stated it more nicely than I could have.

No, it was not "cooked up" to take a swipe at SLPics, but to raise the broader issues that have to do with "airwaves" in general.

Cristiano, as many times as you repeat that you didn't cook this up with the Lindens, I"m not entirely buying it, and I'm not the only one. It's because I think the symbiotic relationship you develop with them and the game is so unconscious and so routinized by now that you hardly realize where they leave off and you begin. I honestly think that's what it is. Your request to keep the two issues separate makes no sense -- they are melded like a Fluffernutter. The front page can be accessed using your Snapzilla. There isn't any other way to access the front page.

That's why Kim's silly analogy with you as a mafia saying to the Lindens "you sleep with the fishes if you don't use my technology" is silly. Cristiano worked hard, made this thing, put it out there, and, if we are to believe him, they Lindens grabbed it without telling him (because they knew as a loyalist he wouldn't care) and then postfactum put up "powered by Snapzilla" and pronounced it yet another example of successful partnering with residents to create the world.

Well what fussbudget could be against such wonderfulness? Well, you might think it's just me, and just annoying Prok, but I'm merely a taste of what's to come when you expose this entire hothouse orchid called "SL" to "the rest of the world" out there. They're going to blink, and say "Who are you guys? Who are these people? Why do you get to do that?" etc.


As Kim put it so well, "If they wanted to, they could just funnel all the land-parceling biz to Anshe, cut a deal with Chip to integrate his skins as the default, and buy a pile of planes from Cubey and give one to every newb who walks in the door."

Well...that's what they did. They are a private company, they can pick the sub-contractors they want to help develop their product, they can do what they want...and they did.

I'm reporting on that fact. And I'm pointing out that while that might be a great technique for developing entertainment and for-profit software, I'm not at all certain this is a great method for developing a WORLD called the METAVERSE, which is now imbued with lots of meaning by lots of people of all kinds. I'm just not sure it's the right thing at all!



Um, sure, laugh, but the problem is, anybody can harvest some oats, bake them, put them into rings, and sell them in cardboard boxes. But it's not going to be the case that "anybody" can make a Metaverse. It's either going to be costing a lot, or it's going to be "open source," but "open source" with lots of privileged types making sure to benefit -- it's just not certain how it will go, and therefore not only is it right to debate it vigorously at the outset, it's NECESSARY to do so.

Your willingness to accept it all as a fait accompli and a fete accompli is directly proportionate to your utter confidence that you'll have a front row seat at the thing, whatever it is.



Hardly a good analogy. In our world, there's only one salad maker and only one table to serve the salad.



Well, since I didn't buy your bugs inworld I guess you're here to bug me in the forums.

Reitsuki, I'm glad newbies can rise to greatness from skill and marketing alone. You can see it sometimes. But the deck is horridly stacked because many of them can't even survive because there are no basic jobs and it is not a real economy, must less a diverse one.

If everything about what you say of Cristiano's set-up is true, then why is he behaving so touchily and protectively about the entire thing? The entire thing isn't about Linux or about this code or that code which somebody might "haxxor" or someone might just make themselves since it seems fairly obvious.

But the SOCIAL CAPITAL is what is really what is at stake here that is priceless, and impossible to duplicate. The Lindens can "swipe" his technology precisely because they know he won't complain and is loyal, but they can also be associated with him because they find in the metagame of reputations, behaviour, etc. in their little game, he has "won" and has "done the right thing".

I've never taken that path and I'm sure hell would freeze over before the Lindens would ever "partner" with me on something, nor would I want them to, since I think the more "normal" and less "insiderish" this "game" can get, the better off for all concerned, including this company.

Gee, dunno... maybe because he has some slanderous ignorant jackass named Prokofy Neva harping on him constantly.

Except that that isn't what happened.

So your reporting what happened about something that didn't happen.

In the real world, that's called making things up.

It is what happened, because they didn't create the conditions to make it otherwise.

Socialism? They created a free market where people succeed or fail based on their talent and ingenuity. You have just as much opportunity to succeed or fail as everyone else. If you have an inferiority complex based on a lack of technical skills why not try learning some instead of tearing down those who have them? No one's going to do the work for you.

That statement makes no sense.

*edit* This time, Chip said it better than I could.

This is a serious question.


Prokofy if SL makes you so miserable, why do you stick around? Only to torture others? You find fault in everything that doesnt involve selling or leasing pixels.