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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-12-2005 17:52
Well thats how you're describing it.. as some shadow group with the ear of the lindens, controlling the world from behind dark doors.... Amazing, it's like there is no communication here. We could be typing all day long and I don't think one word would get through. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-12-2005 17:54
And I think you should look up Straw Man.. A straw man is when you claim the argument is assuming and concluding obviously incorrect things, rather than saying that the real assumptions and conclusions being made are incorrect. For example - No one is saying FIC is a cabal. You are. You are claiming that this is what this is what is being claimed. And then you're saying that this claim is incorrect. Well, duh! Obviously there is no CABAL here. No one is saying there is. You are merely saying that because it sounds really stupid and is easy to make fun of - a straw man. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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08-12-2005 17:55
Amazing, it's like there is no communication here. We could be typing all day long and I don't think one word would get through. When all else fails... Infer someone else is stupid? I think they have a name for that style of argument too! But come now Blaze.. Where is your evidence? Thats all I'm asking for here.. some kind of proof that something like this exists? Now if the best you can do is say 'you're stupid' then I will assume you have none, select pie, and continue on my merry way. My questions on the matter (and your motives) will have been answered in full. Siggy. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-12-2005 17:57
Siggy, I never said you're stupid. Woosh!
I said there was no communication. Maybe I'm the moron for not making my point more clear. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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08-12-2005 17:59
A straw man is when you claim the argument is assuming and concluding obviously incorrect things. No one is saying FIC is a cabal. You are. You are claiming that this is what this is about. Obviously there is no CABAL here. No one is saying there is. You are merely saying that because it sounds really stupid and is easy to make fun of - a straw man. Well all I'm doing is putting in 2 words what you put in several.. I am in fact using YOUR own definition of what this FIC thingy is supposed to be. So if there is a straw man, which by the way is 'A person who is set up as cover or a front for a questionable enterprise. of An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.' then the subject matter of this (being this 'FIC group of people who have the ear of the lindens) , is of your own invention. I think failing to provide any substance to your claims and then crying foul (or in this case a 'straw man mentality') because you can't prove what you say is pretty boneheaded. Now I put up a few instances of things where long standing and respected community members joined together and put forward a very strong 'voice' -- and were utterly ignored... Now in return you are putting forward..... .... nothing. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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08-12-2005 18:04
As far as I can tell, blaze is the only one who knows who is FIC, and what the FIC is involved in, what they do, what they think, etc. It would seem to be a brilliant ploy by someone high up in a secret organization to try to discredit it by openly mocking it and casting doubt upon the very existance of it. Therefore I must conclude that blaze is head of the FIC. Do I get a tshirt? Hmmm... Pendragon ... a year and a half old surname ... 3 posts. Gee, I wonder if you are an alt? LOL  _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Euterpe Roo
The millionth monkey
Join date: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,395
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08-12-2005 18:11
Metaverse or Harrison Bergeron?  No score in kickball either! Someone might feel bad... kk. When Vonnegut gets dragged in here, I start to have a problem. Which is. . . I am not sure. We should all be sorry equally. _____________________
"Of course, you'd also have to mention . . . furries, Sith Lords, cyberpunks, glowing balls of gaseous neon fumes, and walking foodstuffs" --Cory Edo
“One man developed a romantic attachment to a tractor, even giving it a name and writing poetry in its honor." MSN "  next week: the .5m torus of "I ate a yummy sandwich and I'm sleepy now"" Desmond Shang |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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08-12-2005 18:16
blaze... seriously ... is that the best evidence of FIC you have?
Seriously, there's more FIC-suspicious stuff that has been openly admitted and is out there for all to see than this stretch-of-evidence you've produced. Oh, obviously, it wasn't your evidence, you're just Prokofy's mouthpiece: http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=923 _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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08-12-2005 18:20
kk. When Vonnegut gets dragged in here, I start to have a problem. Which is. . . I am not sure. We should all be sorry equally. I am equally sorry as well. I am not allowed to debate this. It would be a vile breach of our equality. Therefore, you are correct, and I am correct. No one's feelings are hurt. Want to play some scoreless chess? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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08-12-2005 18:32
 "It's clear, my dear, we're dead or almost there. This drink could be the last for you and me. Don't swallow." ~ I Hate Myself, Secret Lovers At The Heaven's Gate _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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08-12-2005 18:38
I am equally sorry as well. I am not allowed to debate this. It would be a vile breach of our equality. Therefore, you are correct, and I am correct. No one's feelings are hurt. Want to play some scoreless chess? I'm highly offended by your reference to chess. Keep your Black Vs. White out of these politically correct forums. _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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08-12-2005 19:11
I'm highly offended by your reference to chess. Keep your Black Vs. White out of these politically correct forums.  How about scoreless streamer twirling? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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08-12-2005 19:18
...Maybe I'm the moron for not making my point more clear. |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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08-13-2005 00:05
I appreciate you dismissing everything I said with a spate of doubletalk. It really makes this one of those "discussions" which the prime nuisance used to enjoy. MY point is that the FIC is meaningless. The FIC does not exist. There is no such thing as the FIC. It is a red herring. A conceit perpetrated by an arrogant bastard who wanted to secure a role as the savior of the 'verse. For those who bought into the idea, it's a means of channeling one's disappointment and jealousy into a tangible conspiracy of people. If you consider the FIC to be an actual group of people, then I'm going to drop out of this discussion now. The FIC is meaningless. There are famous people and gifted people, but no FIC. That they repeatedly find work in the public eye is no more surprising than discovering that Tom Cruise is starring in yet another movie. Though they certainly could bid for leading men (perhaps casting Timothy Cornfed from Des Moines as the next big star) there's no reason to do so. Tom Cruise has demonstrated previous experience and has a strong reputation (deserved or not) of being part of profitable movies. The same is true here. Why gamble with an unknown, when you have a handful of people who have repeatedly demonstrated a capability exceeding the norm? To argue that this is unfair or dangerous is utterly ridiculous. It is how life works. If you're skilled enough or charismatic enough, then you will also rise to the fore and will begin to be considered for similar jobs. It's a simple fact of life. So basically your are saying that the perception that there might be an FIC is a meanigless fiction. And that the so called FIC are simply famous (wether by skill or determination or raw talent or some combination), and being famous gets them attention and opportunities that might be closed to non-celebrities? As it happens I do see the FIC as a group of people. I dont see them as particularly organized, or pursuaing and agenda. If you found my comments dismissive, it was entirely your own assumption. I merely tired to digest the salient points from the same tired vitriol towards the gadfly with which the topic is cutomarily adressed by the martyrs to one man's percieved derision. In all likelihood you and I absolutely disagree on that subject, but it was not the thrust of the discussion I initiated. If you are simply going to use it as an opportunity to take pot shots at the gadfly, or at me for agreeing with him, then don't bother, because nothing I willl say is going to sit well with you. I am here neither to praise the gadfly or to bury him. But really personal attackes agaisnt someone who is unable to respond are unwarranted. _____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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08-13-2005 00:16
But really personal attackes agaisnt someone who is unable to respond are unwarranted. Prokofy remains one of the most voluminous posters on the Internet, between his blog, Herald articles, and grandstanding in the SLH comments about the same people ad nauseum. To claim that Prokofy is unable to respond is laughable, as not only does he respond, but speaks at great length quite freely. The portrayal of Prokofy as some poor mute piñata that people continue to take whacks at is as much a fallacy as the organized conspiracies of the famed intarweb cabal. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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08-13-2005 00:59
No, it's not a fallacy. It's an assertion without merit.
blaze's campaigns are based on carefully chosen, logical propositions and arguments - truisms that are difficult or impossible to disprove, even though they aren't accurate. The opposition huffs and puffs but cannot really demonstrate that blaze is wrong. Simply agreeing that he's wrong means very little - to blaze, or in response to his propositions. blazes stages a good piece of guerrilla theatre, and the opposition ends up being the set pieces on his stage. He prances; they protest. And it happens over and over. Prokofy just stood on his box and ranted at the crowd. Easy target. By playing fool to the crowd, blaze shows that the crowd are fools for engaging him. Good performance art. If you really want to shut down his theatrical run, don't buy tickets. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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08-13-2005 01:06
Not really - he just ignores anything that either shows empirical evidence to the contrary - or asks for him to provide some kind of basis in fact for his assumptions.
Your milage may vary - but I think he's kinda like Prokofy Lite... some of the same wind, but without the conviction or passion... Sorta like buying No name brand cola when you cant get you hands on a coke or pepsi... _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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08-13-2005 06:41
The opposition huffs and puffs but cannot really demonstrate that blaze is wrong. Simply agreeing that he's wrong means very little - to blaze, or in response to his propositions. The burden of proof is always on those making a claim, not on those who call them on it. You can't prove a negative, though I suspect you know that already _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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08-13-2005 09:47
Path was in the group because of the Linden Recruitment Center, we built it under the Ouranos group tag; when we transferrered it across, we had some issues needing Path to deed the final land to the Ouranos group temporarily. He just never dropped the group. Not really any FIC/Drama worthy event.
-Adam _____________________
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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08-13-2005 11:27
... Not really any FIC/Drama worthy event. |
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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08-13-2005 11:42
Prokofy just stood on his box and ranted at the crowd. Easy target. By playing fool to the crowd, blaze shows that the crowd are fools for engaging him. Good performance art. Seth, this would be true, except some of us replace exasperated cold-sweats with shaky post-modern humor. And everyone knows you can't beat shaky post-modern humor! For instance... If there was a movie remake of Three's Company: blaze would be Jack Tripper. Prok and Random Unsung would be Chrissy and Janet. pandastrong would be John Ritter doing a cameo as Mr. Roper. Even though the movie wouldn't be very funny, the quip that people would be talking about after they left the theater with buttery hands would be the two-minute cameo of John Ritter as Mr. Roper. I mean, who the fuck can beat a self-referential cameo?  _____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."
~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game. |
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Robin Linden
Linden Lifer
Join date: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 1,224
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08-13-2005 13:12
In the 'for what it's worth' department.
There is a policy that Lindens may not be officers in resident groups. PF joined the group, as Adam points out, to help with some of the logistics of getting the Recruiting Center built. That's done, and he's no longer a officer, or even a member, of the group. _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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08-13-2005 13:12
Path was in the group because of the Linden Recruitment Center, we built it under the Ouranos group tag; when we transferrered it across, we had some issues needing Path to deed the final land to the Ouranos group temporarily. He just never dropped the group. Not really any FIC/Drama worthy event. -Adam Care to comment, blaze? _____________________
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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08-13-2005 13:17
In the 'for what it's worth' department. There is a policy that Lindens may not be officers in resident groups. PF joined the group, as Adam points out, to help with some of the logistics of getting the Recruiting Center built. That's done, and he's no longer a officer, or even a member, of the group. That can't be right. Where's the conspiracy in that? _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas |
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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08-13-2005 14:11
I agree with Blaze. There should be special armor and swords for new players in order to battle the FIC. Then, when all the FIC are slain, their heads could be chopped off and displayed on huge spikes at the WA. And then all of SL will be free! And rays of shunshine will poke through the clouds and flowers will bloom! Hey! Just like questing in WoW! *puts on Wizard hat* _____________________
They give us new smilies
 but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless! |