Interesting

I am not sure that the FIC are all necessarily famous. And certainly Prokofy is famous, or infamous, and is not FIC. The obvious contention is that peope are famous because they are FIC, but I discount that. I cited a very famous person as an example, but I don't beleive that the FIC is entirely composed of famous people.

The response that the gadfly wass hostile and acerbic and used the FIC moniker to engender hostility presupposes a pareticular interpretation of his intentions. While I would disagree with that interpretaion in most cases, my opinion, and your opinion are neither here nor there. The gadlfy is gone. The fact is that the term FIC is a useful starting point in our discussion.

You seem think the FIC does not exist, fine. But I that take you you don't find the perception of an FIC dangerous. My understanding of your position is that the so called FIC are simply famous, and being famous gets them attention and opportunities for closed to non-celebrities?

Am correct in my understanding?

It was a question, not an attitude. Being respectful of your knee-jerk Randin objectivist/capitalist response, my question was does that perception have a chilling effect on new users. I take it that you are saying that as a new user, you were inspired to excell by these people and not threatened. So your anwer to my quesiotn is no. Thanks for the illumination from the objectives/capitalist perspective.

Its interesting to me, because I too find the existence of people like cubey and aimee and cristiano inspirational. But there is a difference when they are perceived to be outstanding players in a level playing field and having some undue influence over the flow of ideas, money, regulation and opportunity.

Also I think that the objectivist/capitalist position which Enebaran stands behind, presupposes the desire, skill and inclinations to work to better one's self in a monetary sense. I question that presupposition only because I work very hard IRL and see SL as leisure activity.

Nolan who is marshall applewhite and why does he sem familiar, forgive my ignorance, and i am too lazy to look it up on my own!

He is "Do".

The guy who was the leader of the Heaven's Gate Cult, those who believed that their destiny (after killing themselves) was to rendezvous with "the mother ship" which was waiting in hiding for them, behind comet Hale-Bopp.

It was not directed specifically at you, you just happened to post a few minutes before I posted the pic.

thats where i knew him from! I wondered why the name was familiar. Hey if I can be the saviour Nolan, you can be the high priest. We just need prim purple sneakers and some kool aid. We can catch the mother ship!

I think that perception can be damaging which is why it's so trollish and irresponsible of people like Blaze to keep asserting that certain successful do have undue influence. It's a crappy thing to do to new users because A. it isn't true, and B. it can make people feel like there's a stacked deck so why bother trying to succeed. That's why the whole thing pisses me off. The supposed FIC isn't the problem. The alarmists who constantly complain about it are.

Assigning motive and intent to others without evidence to support is blaze's forte. He posts a few warm fuzzies to distract everyone, then slips in a necropost or some other piece of conspiracy tripe and waits for people to notice and react.

Now that it has become a recognizable and regular process, I can give it the reaction it deserves:

~YAWN~

I think the biggest danger of the FIC, at least to SL, is that a new community similar to what SL is is going to be created and everyone will think .. why battle the FIC in SL when we too could be the FIC in a new world?

This is the problem with "beta" users. The next SL type world can simply offer up charter membership or whatever and a lot of people will be all over it because they too want to be amongst the inner elite and look down on all the later comers.

I agree FIC are necessary. They are unavoidable. However, we need to make sure that new users are glorified sufficiently that they won't feel that there is any entrenched element that they're up against.

I didn't know the point of SL was to win it. Up against? Nice.

Undue is your word, not mine. Please take it back!

I think you need to learn either a little bit more about Objectivism or a little more about me before you try to label me as an Objectivist.

Capitalist, yes. Objectivist? Not really. Though Objectivism declares that money is cool and that the human mind can accomplish anything, and I like both those ideas, there's plenty of religious and metaphysical implications of Objectivism that conflict with my faith. Bravo on a weak attempt to label me and my opinions, though.

In any case, I don't see what either has to do with my response. I gave an opinion regarding the sort of attitude that establishes the question you asked. If you weren't interested in responses, why ask? Were you trying to be rhetorical?

Well, I didn't know that SL had a point. But, since it does, how about you share it with us?

I agree with Blaze. There should be special armor and swords for new players in order to battle the FIC. Then, when all the FIC are slain, their heads could be chopped off and displayed on huge spikes at the WA. And then all of SL will be free! And rays of shunshine will poke through the clouds and flowers will bloom!

Apparently, according to you, the point is to make sure no one gets successful or recognized for it so that no one feels like life is unfair. Your whole premise is backwards. Beta people are not the problem. You can't prevent people from rising to the top even if you mass everyone at the doors and let them all rush in at the same time like some day after Christmas store sale. If people are put off by the fact that there are already successful people in the world and it makes them feel like there's no point in trying to rise up themselves the problem is in their head and their own attitude. Trying to pin it on the successful is a bit nuts. The only way you can prevent it is to either forbid anyone from becoming successful or start handing out frontal lobotomies... but if people like you stopped making bullshit claims about some cabal of people with special powers that hold everyone else back, that might help.

I appreciate you dismissing everything I said with a spate of doubletalk. It really makes this one of those "discussions" which the prime nuisance used to enjoy.

MY point is that the FIC is meaningless. The FIC does not exist. There is no such thing as the FIC. It is a red herring. A conceit perpetrated by an arrogant bastard who wanted to secure a role as the savior of the 'verse. For those who bought into the idea, it's a means of channeling one's disappointment and jealousy into a tangible conspiracy of people.

If you consider the FIC to be an actual group of people, then I'm going to drop out of this discussion now. The FIC is meaningless. There are famous people and gifted people, but no FIC. That they repeatedly find work in the public eye is no more surprising than discovering that Tom Cruise is starring in yet another movie. Though they certainly could bid for leading men (perhaps casting Timothy Cornfed from Des Moines as the next big star) there's no reason to do so. Tom Cruise has demonstrated previous experience and has a strong reputation (deserved or not) of being part of profitable movies. The same is true here. Why gamble with an unknown, when you have a handful of people who have repeatedly demonstrated a capability exceeding the norm? To argue that this is unfair or dangerous is utterly ridiculous. It is how life works. If you're skilled enough or charismatic enough, then you will also rise to the fore and will begin to be considered for similar jobs. It's a simple fact of life.

Metaverse or Harrison Bergeron?


No score in kickball either!

Someone might feel bad...

FIC are pigs that can fly.

So, yes, of course, the FIC does not exist.


FIC is the situation where certain talented, well respected and dedicated individuals are listened to more carefully by LL when they talk.

Then yes, obviously, the FIC exists.


If you want to define FIC as something absurd, straw man it as it were, then I'm sure you'll win any argument you so desire.

Unfortunately, if you do that, then you're playing a game. And that game means you are leaving your moral high ground.

I read this thread in it's entirety.
I am dumber now, than when I started.

And yes, the FIC poses risks. Everything in life poses risks. Walking outside in the morning poses risks. It just helps to enumerate what they are


1 - the FIC tend to be entrenched. Because they are listened to carefully they will, by the definition of human nature, protect the status quo that keeps them FIC. Change things in such a way that they are no longer the famous and respected ones and they will naturally push back in any way they can.

2 - the idea of the FIC lead other people to want to be FIC too. The best way to do this is often to migrate to another place where you can be the senior guy and know all there is to know. So, we need to defocus the FIC and focus on the new people so that if such an opportunity does come along they won't think being FIC is as good as being the new guy.

3 - evolution occurs with new ideas. New people are often just as good a source of new ideas as the FIC are, sometimes better. You have to be very cautious about listening to people simply because they are talented, respected, and old. Sometimes you can learn something from the dumbest guy on the crew.

4 - Envy. Witness what is happening with Gigas right now. Listening to someone a bit more often than the next guy can lead to very bitter and very angry deads by people who can wreak a lot of havoc.

I'd just be happy to see evidence if it did exist...

I mean Club Elite was never deleted or changed from Federal...
Acidic Flight scanners were never returned or moved.....
Phobos Sim was never rolled back.....
Several script functions have never been altered or depricated....

Those are a few things I would expect to have seen happen if such a global cabal existed...

The very fact that the inventor of said term lists me in its ranks sorta tears some of its credibility away to begin with - after all I can't even get a dog to do what I say let alone a Linden....

Siggy.

The problem you're running into is a lot of bickering which is a result of people who simply can't get along.

It's unfortunate, but I suppose not entirely surprising.

This is exactly the straw man mentality that you and quite a few other people on this thread are employing.


It's so easy to define the FIC as some improbable, impossible thing. Unfortunately, when you do, you don't look like the nice guy defending the world. You just look manipulative.

Well thats how you're describing it.. as some shadow group with the ear of the lindens, controlling the world from behind dark doors....

And like I said... if such a thing existed.. then theres a few things I think might have taken place (which you didn't address) - and I'd like to see some evidence that such a thing may exist (which you didn't give)..

So... your just really speculating.... which is par for the course for you I guess - wild speculation without actually backing anything up.

And I think you should look up Straw Man..