Democratic Party slow death?
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-18-2006 15:31
From: Einsman Schlegel How are we better now than we were back then?
I think the person in charge has a LOT to do with how the economy works. It takes a rather smart business man to get things going, not some oil chump. I didn't say things are better. In general I find that life get crappier as you get older. My point/opinion is that Clinton does not get credit for the Dot Com boom, and the natural cycle of the US economy. If anything he gets a black mark for signing NAFTA.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-18-2006 15:33
From: Kendra Bancroft I don't get your point. I AM judging by the content of their character. I find Condi, Colin and Alberto's character woefully lacking. And what about all the Democratic criminals, like the Clintons and all of their buddies? How is their character?
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-18-2006 16:34
From: Eboni Khan And what about all the Democratic criminals, like the Clintons and all of their buddies? How is their character? You'ld have to be more specific than that. Who specifically? But as a rule I judge by deeds, not political party or skin tone or gender preference. If you're trying to paint me as hypocrite you're going after the wrong lady. I call 'em as I see 'em.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-18-2006 16:35
From: Eboni Khan I didn't say things are better. In general I find that life get crappier as you get older. My point/opinion is that Clinton does not get credit for the Dot Com boom, and the natural cycle of the US economy. If anything he gets a black mark for signing NAFTA. Huge black mark for NAFTA
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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03-18-2006 21:43
From: Kendra Bancroft I don't get your point. I AM judging by the content of their character. I find Condi, Colin and Alberto's character woefully lacking. Clinton's cabinet was cited by you as being good, solely for its diversity. From: Kendra Bancroft Most diverse cabinet in American history The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever. Examples of non-WASP members of Bush Jr's cabinet were presented. You replied with your opinions regarding their behaviors (or more accurately your perception of their behaviors), dismissing them for that reason. That is what I was referring to. On one hand, you talk as if the physical appearance of the Clinton cabinet is what is important, and then shortly thereafter ignore people in the Bush cabinet mentioned due to physical appearance because you don't agree with them. As for the other part of my post, your citing the Clinton cabinet as being good because of physical characteristics was what prompted my MLK question. Declaring them to be "good" because of physical characteristics is, I believe, judging based on the color of their skin (or what is/isn't between their legs, at that), not the content of their character.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-18-2006 23:11
From: Kiamat Dusk Stocks End a Strong Week Higher Saturday , March 18, 2006 [-95980] NEW YORK — Wall Street closed on Friday in an ebullient mood as the Dow Jones industrial average finished a strong week hitting a fresh five-year high. All the major indexes finished the week with sturdy gains as traders showed optimism about recent economic data on inflation, housing and retail sales. The Dow climbed 26.41, or 0.23 percent, to 11,279.65, its highest level since reaching 11,301.74 on May 21, 2001. Broader stock indicators also gained ground. The S&P 500 index rose 1.92, or 0.12 percent, to 1,307.25 — its highest close since it reached 1,309.38 on May 22, 2001 — and the Nasdaq composite index added 6.92, or 0.3 percent, to 2,306.48. Both the S&P 500 and Nasdaq registered their best weekly gains since January, while the Dow put in its best weekly performance in almost a month. Click here to visit FOXBusiness.com's Investing page. A rebound in manufacturing activity and lower oil prices, combined with activity in home building, industrial and interest-rate sensitive stocks, drove the rally that pushed the market. Homebuilding stocks were up nearly 8 percent on the week. Investors also pounced on shares of industrial companies like Boeing Co. (BA) and United Technologies Corp. (UTX) after a Federal Reserve report signaled strength in the industrial sector. Output from U.S. factories, mines and utilities rose 0.7 percent in February following a decline of 0.3 percent the month before. The promising economic report overshadowed downbeat earnings news from General Motors Corp., which said its 2005 loss was $2 billion more than originally reported. Insurance firm American International Group Inc. (AIG) also posted a steep drop in profit from settling regulatory charges. Earlier in the week, the market drew on the Fed's optimism about the momentum the economy is carrying into spring. Adding to the positive mood was a prediction by The American Bankers Association, which said on Friday that the Fed is likely to wrap up its campaign to boost interest rates by midyear. The U.S. central bank has raised benchmark rates in 14 straight small steps dating to June 2004 as it sought to bring them to more normal levels from an ultra-low 1 percent put in place amid the sluggish recovery from the 2001 recession. Hiring gained ground in February with employers adding 243,000 jobs, the most in three months, according to a report released by the Labor Department. The report showed that job gains were fairly broad-based and suggested the jobs climate is gaining momentum. Heavy equipment maker Caterpillar (CAT) shares rose 1.8 percent, or $1.33, to $76.23 on the New York Stock Exchange, while shares of aerospace and industrial conglomerate United Technologies (UTC) gained 1 percent, or 57 cents, to $58.80. Caterpillar shares hit a record high of $76.30. Shares of fellow Dow component Boeing Co. (BA)rose 1.5 percent, or $1.12, to $77.85 after hitting a record high of $78.08. GM (GM) shares slid 4.9 percent, or $1.09, to $21.13 after it reported its 2005 loss was $2 billion deeper than previously reported. Shares of AIG, the world's largest insurer by market value, fell 0.6 percent, or 42 cents, to $68.82 after the company posted a 72 percent drop in fourth-quarter profit. Among the day's gainers, shares of Genentech Inc. (DNA) rose 6.7 percent, or $5.55, to $88.14 after the biotech company raised its current year and five-year earnings growth forecasts. On the Nasdaq, shares of Sirius Satellite Radio Inc. (SIRI) rose 8.4 percent, or 38 cents, to $4.89 after the company said it will be the exclusive provider of the pay-radio service to automaker Volkswagen AG's namesake brand and its premium Audi AG affiliate. Trading was heavy on the NYSE, with about 2 billion shares changing hands, above last year's daily average of 1.61 billion, while on Nasdaq, about 2.56 billion shares traded, above last year's daily average of 1.80 billion. Advancing stocks outnumbered declines by a ratio of 9 to 7 on the NYSE and by 8 to 7 on Nasdaq. http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,188221,00.htmlSo the Rich are getting richer what else is new under the Boy George W. Bush mis-administration
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-18-2006 23:13
From: Kiamat Dusk Typical. If you don't like the guy in office every positive accomplishment is immedialtely false and every negative suspicion is immediately true.
-Kiamat Dusk Well, maybe if he hadn't stolen the 2000 election we would think better of the rat.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-18-2006 23:16
From: Garoad Kuroda A few problems:
-The content can possibly be interpreted in more than one way.
-There's no explicit confirmation of it's authenticity.
-This document was photocopied, and then later re-typed? So how do we know it wasn't tampered with, even if it is real?
-It showed up just before the British election, which makes it look like it was intended to influence the results.
-"Unknown" sources are always tougher to believe in general... Most would agree that intelligence gathered from "unknown" sources is considered very unreliable. So I don't feel compelled to consider this any more reliable.
Maybe it is real, and it's showing that the Bush administration intentionally lied, but I still have some doubts. Seems kinda like reading some random news article off the intarweb and buying into it without even a mention of source or reliability. I'd be pretty pissed off if it is real, maybe protesting outside the White House with a "Bush is criminal" sign would be a good idea then...
But factoring in a motive for misleading everyone like this....well, I don't see any convincing motives either. You must be the back up the Republicans sent in to this Forum
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-19-2006 05:23
From: Noh Rinkitink Clinton's cabinet was cited by you as being good, solely for its diversity.
Examples of non-WASP members of Bush Jr's cabinet were presented.
You replied with your opinions regarding their behaviors (or more accurately your perception of their behaviors), dismissing them for that reason.
That is what I was referring to. On one hand, you talk as if the physical appearance of the Clinton cabinet is what is important, and then shortly thereafter ignore people in the Bush cabinet mentioned due to physical appearance because you don't agree with them.
As for the other part of my post, your citing the Clinton cabinet as being good because of physical characteristics was what prompted my MLK question. Declaring them to be "good" because of physical characteristics is, I believe, judging based on the color of their skin (or what is/isn't between their legs, at that), not the content of their character. I didn't say Clinton's cabinet was good soley because of diversity, I merely mentioned that one of the good things Clinton did was to have a diverse cabinet. There is a huge difference. Nor do I ignore the diversity in Bush's cabinet. I was responding to Kiamat's suggestion that it was hypocritical of me to laud diversity on one hand and then bash Condi, Colin, and Alberto. The problem with HIS logic is that I'm not bashing them out of any reason having to do with color, ethnicity or gender. I'm not discounting that they are part of Bush's diverse cabinet, I'm simply giving the reasons I have bashed them in the past.
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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03-19-2006 06:27
From: Magnum Serpentine You must be the back up the Republicans sent in to this Forum And you must be a Democratic stooge that gets your thoughts straight from the DNC daily fax. See how easy it is to play to the "excluded middle" falacy? Fun for the whole family! Your post, sir, is a demonstration of a big part of what's wrong with politics today. It's always either/or, and there's no room for anything in between, the world is only black and white without any shades of gray, and there's no room for moderation, just extremes.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-19-2006 06:32
From: Magnum Serpentine So the Rich are getting richer what else is new under the Boy George W. Bush mis-administration Dude, that has happened since the beginning of time. You can't blame everthing on Bush, use some common sense.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-19-2006 06:35
From: Eboni Khan Dude, that has happened since the beginning of time. You can't blame everthing on Bush, use some common sense. I can blame Bush for being completely incompetant though.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-19-2006 06:41
From: Noh Rinkitink And you must be a Democratic stooge that gets your thoughts straight from the DNC daily fax.
See how easy it is to play to the "excluded middle" falacy? Fun for the whole family!
Your post, sir, is a demonstration of a big part of what's wrong with politics today. It's always either/or, and there's no room for anything in between, the world is only black and white without any shades of gray, and there's no room for moderation, just extremes. Black and White, No shades of Gray, Extremeist... No sorry you have the wrong person. The ones who fit this catagory are the Fundamentalist.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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03-19-2006 06:43
From: Eboni Khan Dude, that has happened since the beginning of time. You can't blame everthing on Bush, use some common sense. Sure I can, he is a criminal. He broke the ABM Treaty he attacked another nation with-out cause, (Except to get elected President of the US in 2004) Oh yes lets not forget he committed mass voter fraud in 2000 and 2004.
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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03-19-2006 08:56
From: Magnum Serpentine Black and White, No shades of Gray, Extremeist... No sorry you have the wrong person.
The ones who fit this catagory are the Fundamentalist. So, that wasn't really you that said that because someone was suspicious about the veracity of the Downing Street Memo (especially given the memo supposedly discussing Bush Jr's ANG service that was later found to be fraudulent) and detailed their reasons for that suspicion, that they "must be" a Republican apologist? I just had my eyes examined 6 months ago, I shouldn't need to get them checked again so soon...
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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03-19-2006 09:03
And on a note related to the original subject of this thread, I actually wouldn't mind the Democratic Party getting back to being a real counterweight to the GOP (even though I disagree with many of the DP's positions, to varying degrees), instead of their currently being "also-rans" for all practical purposes.
Unfortunately, at least currently the Democratic Party seem too focused on "let's dump on the other guy", at the expense of "Okay, public, here's what we're for, and why you should vote for us". Anyone can be against something without actually considering the subject in question, like a kid who says he hates brocoli without ever having had any to know what it tastes like.
Speaking solely for myself, "we hate Bush, and here's why" isn't exactly going to make me rush out to the next convenient voting booth and click (punch a hole, pull a lever, touch the screen, or whatever method is used for the voting in question) the "Democrat" party line vote option.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-19-2006 09:06
From: Magnum Serpentine Oh yes lets not forget he committed mass voter fraud in 2000 and 2004. He personally committed mass voter fruad, or a system that has been fraudulent all along was exposed. I think the latter, but I live in Chicago.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-19-2006 09:11
From: Noh Rinkitink So, that wasn't really you that said that because someone was suspicious about the veracity of the Downing Street Memo (especially given the memo supposedly discussing Bush Jr's ANG service that was later found to be fraudulent) and detailed their reasons for that suspicion, that they "must be" a Republican apologist?
I just had my eyes examined 6 months ago, I shouldn't need to get them checked again so soon... The memo which discussed Bush's ANG service was found to be re-typed. It was never found to be fraudelent. All the sources for info on the memo have been authenticated. Nice try though
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,989
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03-19-2006 09:52
From: Siro Mfume Would you like a better source than? How about Ambassador Wilson? Our government asked him to go and ascertain whether or not uranium yellowcake was being sold/given to Irag via Niger. He came back and made his report well before the war. In that report, he detailed that Niger was indeed not giving Iraq anything, much less radiative material.
Not good enough? How about the U.N Weapons Inspectors? They reported consistently and often that there were no WMDs in Iraq. Even when allowed full access right before the war, they still had not found anything. Their correct conclusion was that Iraq didn't have any WMDs. You know, it's impossible to know what to believe anymore. I've read the Wilson thing before, and also found plenty of criticism to go along with it, which cast doubts on whether his story proves anything conclusively. It's pretty hard to find evidence of something like an attempt at a transaction that never took place, isn't it? But the real kicker is that while he was saying it never could have happened, and that it never did happen...none of that matters. Was there an attempt to purchase, or wasn't there? "Wilson's report said that a former Niger official told him a businessman had approached him in June 1999 and proposed a meeting with an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations." As Tenet said in a statement Friday, "The former official interpreted the overture as an attempt to discuss uranium sales." But Wilson's main conclusion was that Niger had made no deals with Iraq or any other rogue state. He said it was very unlikely any Niger uranium could have been illegally diverted."As for the weapons inspectors, I don't know what you're talking about. (Actually I do, but it's not even close to convincing evidence of a Bush lie.) There's a ton of information out there about how the UN inspectors were saying Iraq was playing games with them, hindering inspections, and hiding things from them. And consider that Iraq didn't need to actually HAVE anything. If they simply had everyone fooled into thinking they were hiding something, it's good enough to explain the failed intelligence. There's a ton of evidence out there (some just coming out very recently) that Iraq was making every attempt it could to deceive. I've even "heard" that a recent NYT front page story said there is evidence that even Saddam's top level generals were "shocked" to find out that they didn't have anything equating to a WMD. If that is true and even people in those positions were fooled, due to the level of secrecy, how could we expect our intelligence services to get everything exactly right? None of this is something that can't be reasonably debated. If they were truly conclusive, even the most clever politicians wouldn't be able to produce a defense. The Democrats would have ever let these things fall away if they were actually conclusive evidence that they were lied to. The last thing I want to do is defend guilty politicians that have lied to everyone, I'm not doing that, I just want to see some real proof of guilt. Consider me a wacko "scientist" if you want, but if something can have holes shot through it, just as in the scientific realm, I can't have alot of confidence in it.
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BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-19-2006 09:55
From: Garoad Kuroda Consider me a wacko "scientist" if you want, but if something can have holes shot through it, just as in the scientific realm, I can't have alot of confidence in it. and yet you have faith in Bush despite holes being shot through his statements on a daily basis.
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,989
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03-19-2006 10:01
From: Magnum Serpentine You must be the back up the Republicans sent in to this Forum Well, I'm not really a Republican or total conservative. Actually I'm pretty liberal about alot of things. I'm just trying to be as objective as possible about something that many people let their emotions rule their thinking on. Sorry but I'm not going to take something, that a court wouldn't even admit as evidence, as fact. (The re-typed downing memo.) But thanks for your feedback.
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BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-19-2006 10:04
From: Garoad Kuroda Well, I'm not really a Republican or total conservative. Actually I'm pretty liberal about alot of things. I'm just trying to be as objective as possible about something that many people let their emotions rule their thinking on. Sorry but I'm not going to take something, that a court wouldn't even admit as evidence, as fact. (The re-typed downing memo.)
But thanks for your feedback. Nobody --including Bush or Blair have denied that the Downing Memo is true.
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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03-19-2006 10:09
From: Kendra Bancroft The memo which discussed Bush's ANG service was found to be re-typed. It was never found to be fraudelent. All the sources for info on the memo have been authenticated.
Nice try though So, CBS saying that they can't prove that it was legitimate, and the source admitting that he misled CBS researchers, and that the purported source (Lt. Col. Bill Burkett) has credibility issues, is authentication? I know my 1992 dictionary isn't current, but I didn't think it was that out of date. (And, just to be thorough, although in general I have trust issues regarding wikipedia, the article on the Bush memo issue seems to be well-researched, with references out the yin-yang.)
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,989
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03-19-2006 10:09
From: Kendra Bancroft and yet you have faith in Bush despite holes being shot through his statements on a daily basis. Not really, it's not like I'm listening to everything they say and I'm going "Aha! There's the truth!" You have to form SOME kind of opinion, and based on the bigger picture, I often feel that the conservative (security related) arguments are more believable. I'd be surprised to find out that the administration is throwing out blatant lies left and right, but I don't rule such a thing out. Actually I'm sure there is alot of falsehood coming out of them...not everything, and maybe not outright lies, but I'm not going to default to disbelief every time they speak as a consequence.
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BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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Garoad Kuroda
Prophet of Muppetry
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,989
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03-19-2006 10:24
From: Kendra Bancroft Nobody --including Bush or Blair have denied that the Downing Memo is true. But "neither confirming or denying" doesn't tell us enough. Perhaps that means it really exists, maybe, but it's a stretch to say that it's accurate because it isn't being denied. "Neither confirm or deny" is the default answer when it comes to any sort of national security topic, so I don't know if this means anything. The problem is the doubt in the memo's complete accuracy, and there's NO way currently to address that concern. It's just not a reliable source of information by ANY reasonable standard.
_____________________
BTW
WTF is C3PO supposed to be USEFUL for anyway, besides whining? Stupid piece of scrap metal would be more useful recycled as a toaster. But even that would suck, because who would want to listen to a whining wussy toaster? Is he gold plated? If that's the case he should just be melted down into gold ingots. Help the economy some, and stop being so damn useless you stupid bucket of bolts! R2 is 1,000 times more useful than your tin man ass, and he's shaped like a salt and pepper shaker FFS!
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