You disturber of the peace 
Oh, wait, what peace?
Oh, wait, what peace?
Heeeeyyy... are you calling me DISTURBED???
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
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06-01-2006 09:43
Heeeeyyy... are you calling me DISTURBED??? _____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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06-01-2006 09:44
Or else!  After WWII... that's not remotely funny. _____________________
Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own? |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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06-01-2006 10:02
I will fight any church that tries to take away my rights to believe as I will. No need to worry Christians want to give power to the Catholic Church. The Catholic church is shrinking, not growing. Christians are leaving organized religions in favor of small, home based churches. At this time no Church is trying to gain control over our laws/rights. The fact most Americans reject several of your agenda issues is not a sign the USA is about to start the Church of America. When people in general warm up to your issues things will slowly change, but don't hold your breath waiting. Americans think marijuana laws are wasting our resources, but it's still illegal to smoke it. The main thing to remember is everyone has an agenda, and pushing that agenda causes others with different agendas to take notice. Your agenda is to see gay marriage legalized, make sure abortions are legal, make sure poor kids don't gain access to private schools, keep prayer from returning to school, making sure the 10 Commandments and nativity depictions are not on public property, and making sure kids don't get to hear both sides of the evolution debate. It's OK to have such an agenda, but it's also OK to have an agenda that opposes your agenda. After all, this is America. you completely miss all my points. I wonder if you read or just scan what i say. the agenda can not be to impose the morality of a Religion codified into law - this is a basic falicy that has been done over and over in the history of America The history of the Catholic Church is important not becuase i fear that we will give power to it , nor do i fear there will be a Church of America - its important becuase the Excess and abuse of power serves as an object lesson. A lesson that give insights into how things can be better. A lesson on what to avoid. And a lesson to where weve already abused the Majority rule vs. the Seperation of Church and State. I wont go further into debating your points since i doubt you will consider what i have to say, anyhow. |
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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06-01-2006 10:02
HEY!!! God takes prosac now, so give him a break! I don't know.... Prosac may not be strong enough, after all, he's been throwing tidal waves, hurricanes, earthquakes and religous wars around lately like they were candy at Christmas. I think he needs something MUCH stronger. . _____________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
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06-01-2006 10:04
I don't know.... Prosac may not be strong enough, after all, he's been throwing tidal waves, hurricanes, earthquakes and religous wars around lately like they were candy at Christmas. I think he needs something MUCH stronger. . I'm thinking either lithium (for bipolar disorder) or maybe he just needs to mellow out and smoke some weed...  _____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant |
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Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
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06-01-2006 10:11
I'm thinking either lithium (for bipolar disorder) or maybe he just needs to mellow out and smoke some weed... Well, the bible says that is ok... 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. _____________________
Burnman Bedlam
http://theburnman.com Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own? |
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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06-01-2006 10:28
Well, the bible says that is ok... 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Dude - does that mean that god said I could have every herb bearing seed? <taps foot, thinks about god thing> but.. but... aren't god's followers the one's passing laws against gods herb bearing seed plants, the evil weed? <puffs on one of those outlawed herbs> Passes the brownies she made to others in the thread. . _____________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-01-2006 11:54
Dude - does that mean that god said I could have every herb bearing seed? <taps foot, thinks about god thing> but.. but... aren't god's followers the one's passing laws against gods herb bearing seed plants, the evil weed? <puffs on one of those outlawed herbs> Passes the brownies she made to others in the thread. . As I've said before. What other people say, regardless of their stated faith, has nothing to do with the Bible or what is in the Bible unless they happen to be quoting the Bible. Many have been turned away from the Bible and God because of people who claim to be Christian. I did, as a young man, turn away from the Bible and God because of the actions of people in a church. Until one day I found out my relationship with God and my understanding of the Bible is my responsibility. I can't blame others for my lack of seeking, knocking, etc. |
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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06-01-2006 11:56
Actually, wouldn't use of the Bible as the foundation of your belief system / rulebook of the belief system / etc be Idolatry/making unto thee a (literally) graven image?
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-01-2006 12:31
Actually, wouldn't use of the Bible as the foundation of your belief system / rulebook of the belief system / etc be Idolatry/making unto thee a (literally) graven image? Only if one worships the book. Rather than the God who lead men to write it. |
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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06-01-2006 13:05
Only if one worships the book. Rather than the God who lead men to write it. But the book itself is what claims that it was inspired by God. Therefore, it's claiming to speak for God, and if it is wrong, then the entire thing may be false. It's an idol. _____________________
I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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06-01-2006 13:19
But the book itself is what claims that it was inspired by God. Therefore, it's claiming to speak for God, and if it is wrong, then the entire thing may be false. It's an idol. Actually, it's an inanimate object - it makes no claims. Whoever wrote it makes those claims. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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06-01-2006 13:23
Actually, it's an inanimate object - it makes no claims. Whoever wrote it makes those claims. LOL to be technical, you are correct. Of course, since the claims are present, the argument of idolatry is still valid. People use it to define God in their lives, therefore it is an idol. _____________________
I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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06-01-2006 13:27
As I've said before. What other people say, regardless of their stated faith, has nothing to do with the Bible or what is in the Bible unless they happen to be quoting the Bible. Many have been turned away from the Bible and God because of people who claim to be Christian. I did, as a young man, turn away from the Bible and God because of the actions of people in a church. Until one day I found out my relationship with God and my understanding of the Bible is my responsibility. I can't blame others for my lack of seeking, knocking, etc. If the stories in the Bible are true - god himself scared me off with his mean old self a long ago. If not, then a whole lot of people have died for nothing and that's just as bad. Personally, I think it's just a big bad old world and if your lucky you propagate and survive past 50. If your real lucky you enjoy your life. If your real, real, lucky you find some way of helping others enjoy their lives and live longer too. Smile and spread your seed. . _____________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
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06-01-2006 22:36
All that could be said about atheists as well, but I don't hear much bashing of atheists here just because they are atheists and have an agenda they think is best for everyone else. Atheists demanding America remove any reference to God is an action that affects us all. We know the large majority believe in God, yet we have a tiny minority dictating how we all will live. Ironically, they are seeking to have their beliefs instituted in Government while removing the beliefs of the majority. Also, I agree there should be no Government Church, that's all the constitution seeks to prevent. There is no "separation of faith and Government" And I see no one seeking to take away the rights atheists have always enjoyed. They are not persecuted. Nope, the US govt is supposed to remain neutral about religion. Government advocation of atheism is just as wrong as government advocation of Christianity or any other religious group. And as an atheist myself, I say that any govt agency advocating atheism should be legally slapped by the ACLU until it cries uncle and stops. As for dictating how you live, you are free to put up religious statues and icons all over your property and your church's property. You are free to run tv ads, billboards, et featuring your church. You are free to open a Christian bookstore. You are free to go door to door and ask people to join your faith. You are free to practice your religion as you choose as long as it doesn't involve human sacrifice or child molestation. You may attend church ten times a day or once every ten years as you choose. What you don't have is the right to take my tax dollars to pay for your religion. That's it. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-02-2006 04:13
...... What you don't have is the right to take my tax dollars to pay for your religion. That's it. Excellent post... but....., churches are tax exempt. That means the government gives money to these churches every day in the form of tax rebates. The government also offers grants to these religious institutions for the charity they provide to the poor. While the organization is assisting the poor, they are proselytizing them. |
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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06-02-2006 06:20
Excellent post... but....., churches are tax exempt. That means the government gives money to these churches every day in the form of tax rebates. The government also offers grants to these religious institutions for the charity they provide to the poor. While the organization is assisting the poor, they are proselytizing them. That leads to another argument entirely, the one that churches should be required to pay tax as they typically draw in substantial funds that are not used for charitable purposes (in fact, many churches only pay enough to keep the lights on and their memberships to groups up, cover their expenses for spreading the religion, and pocket the rest to the pastor). So you've addressed something that should be stopped anyway. I'm all for tax money going to charitable purposes, but to give it to churches for that purpose is silly when there are so many secular charities that give a larger percentage of the funds toward their work. Funds are used by churches as much for imposing their beliefs on others as they are for aid, whereas a secular institution is not burdened by theology. Indeed, your statement proves my earlier point that you were trying to debate. And reverses your own (that a state-run church is against the wishes of the founding fathers) to be used against you: A state providing subsidies to churches to spread their religion is a church being vicariously run by the state. _____________________
I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-02-2006 07:05
................ ..........................................., but to give it to churches for that purpose is silly when there are so many secular charities that give a larger percentage of the funds toward their work. ..................................... ...................... The best, most efficient charities are religious in nature. Look at the Salvation Army for example. The reason religious charities do better is usually the people who volunteer are there to serve God, not line their pockets. Religious people are also more likely to donate to charities. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-02-2006 07:12
The best, most efficient charities are religious in nature. Look at the Salvation Army for example. The reason religious charities do better is usually the people who volunteer are there to serve God, not line their pockets. Religious people are also more likely to donate to charities. The worst charities are also christian. Your point? The bible is a good piece of fiction, but LOTR is better, and more plausible. Harry Potter and LOTR also have a better ratio of good role models to bad than the bible does. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-02-2006 07:14
The worst charities are also christian. ......................... Really? Which ones would that be? |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-02-2006 07:30
Really? Which ones would that be? Operation Blessing (care of Cristian Coalition) - congo diamond scandal anyone? |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-02-2006 07:36
Operation Blessing (care of Cristian Coalition) - congo diamond scandal anyone? "An Operation Blessing airplane was reportedly[1] being used for Pat Robertson's personal mining venture. In 1997, two of Operation Blessing's pilots, Robert Hinkle and Tahir Brohi, told the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot newspaper that Operation Blessing planes were diverted to support Pat Robertson's diamond mining ventures instead of doing relief work in Zaire. Even though Robertson reimbursed Operation Blessing for the use of these planes, some have criticized the organization for allowing the use of resources by a for-profit venture. A Robertson spokesperson said that the planes used were unsuitable for relief work. No charges were ever filed in the matter."--- wiki |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-02-2006 07:44
Like I said.
Charites can be good or bad REGARGDLESS of their religious leaning or lack thereof. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-02-2006 08:05
Like I said. Charites can be good or bad REGARGDLESS of their religious leaning or lack thereof. The fact is, the charity you brought up is very efficient. Even with missteps it is far more effiecient that secular charities. I think it was the United Way that has so many problems, google 'corruption unitedway'... there's tons of stuff. Also... "The Red Cross, under the Liberty Fund, collected $564 million in donations after 9/11. Months after the event, the Red Cross had distributed only $154 million. The Red Cross' explanation for keeping the majority of the money was that it would be used to help 'fight the war on terror'. To the victims, this meant that the money was going towards bombing broken backed third world countries like Afghanistan and setting up surveillance cameras and expanding the police state in US cities, and not towards helping them rebuild their lives." http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2005/010905redcross.htm Give to the Red Cross and support the war effort. It goes on and on. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-02-2006 08:07
The fact is, the charity you brought up is very efficient. Even with missteps it is far more effiecient that secular charities. I think it was the United Way that has so many problems, google 'corruption unitedway'... there's tons of stuff. Also... "The Red Cross, under the Liberty Fund, collected $564 million in donations after 9/11. Months after the event, the Red Cross had distributed only $154 million. The Red Cross' explanation for keeping the majority of the money was that it would be used to help 'fight the war on terror'. To the victims, this meant that the money was going towards bombing broken backed third world countries like Afghanistan and setting up surveillance cameras and expanding the police state in US cities, and not towards helping them rebuild their lives." http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2005/010905redcross.htm Give to the Red Cross and support the war effort. It goes on and on. Efficient and thoroughly corrupt. |