The Bible is a book.

I assume that you have actually read the bible?

Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus are some of the most barbaric texts ever to exist. god himself is full of hatred and anger. Hell, I dunno why all christians don't simply solve their religious debates with violence. your creator *LOVES* to. That and animal sacrifices.

Thanks, but I have no real personal need to debate or argue issues with someone so obviously set in her opinions. I have better things to do with my time.

I said I had no sources handy. You're not exactly revealing any shocking secret.

Your cases support my point handily, actually - I'm not a Christian Crusader. I don't care what religion's symbol is being banned, or who is doing it. I'm quite open in my criticism of Christians when the case is warrented.

Ah... you can dish but not take?

Typical.

I'm surprised you haven't started quoting scripture yet. That's usually the next step.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36075

http://wizbangblog.com/2004/11/24/declaration-of-independence-banned-at-school.php

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41837

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1635905/posts

There are many more, I'm not going to post them all.

No, I think I stated early on that I have no desire to get in a philosophical-religion debate... especially with people of an obvious troll atttitude. I haven't "dished" anything out.. and I'm sure not going to sit here and waste time on whatever slop you folks decide to dish out. Like I said, threads that attack people's basic beliefs (whatever those beliefs are) never turn out well. The eventually, inevitably attract folks itching for a fight and who have no respect for anyone's opinion but their own.

As far as "typical" behavior... you're right on track. What's your next step.. insulting people's basic intelligence and education?

Really people, it gets old. Very predictable (in fact, I think I did predict that about the first page of this thread. LOL)

The only thing I've done thus far is point out viewpoints on both sides of the fence. You folks are so extremely sure of your positions and so ready to get into a verbal fight... that you fail to see that other people's opinions are just as strongly based and valid as yours. That's where you fall short. Tunnel vision prevents seeing the overall picture. In this thread I have defended neither side. Nor have I quoted scripture or religious platitudes. I think I even stated I am definitely not taking the side of modern mainstream religions.

What about any of that did you not recognize?

Translation: "I'm going to run away now."

Happens every time.

There's nothing to "run away" from Cindy. Refusing to be involved in a useless and unproductive verbal war is the course of wisdom, not cowardice. The fact that you view this as some kind of "battle" you have to win just reenforces my decision to have nothing to do with further such nonsense.

"Never feed trolls. Their appetite is never satisfied and they only demand more."

I wasn't the one spouting the nonsense, Wayfinder. That would be you with your gross mischaracterization of the Theory of Evolution. And as far as a "battle", Science has already won it. The word just hasn't gotten out to people who prefer their ancient fables to science and legitimate research.

Yes, it makes me angry to see the sort of untruths that you repeated. But I'm always happy to carry on a pleasant, informative discussion if you wish to stick to facts instead of Creationist propaganda.


That's the second time you've said that. Are you sure?

LOL. I seriously doubt there would be anything "pleasant"-- or informative-- about your "discussion". And yes, I'm sure.

There, I replied. Woot! You win!

<applauds loudly>

Succintly and clearly put. Every time I try to have this sort of conversation with ID proponents, I can't get past sputtering "You're kidding, right?"

Cindy, if I wasn't taken, I'd have to marry you. In a non-religious ceremony, of course

-S

Kevn, it's good to see you have something other than WorldNet Daily in there. I mean, Free Republic is unbiased right?

I disagree - I will never forget this line: "I believe in punishment." That's what public religion is: punishment.

Having kneeled until I was so stiff I could not stand (at six years old), been locked in coat closets by nuns, been paddled with rulers, pulled by the ears, strangled, pulled by the hair, been slapped and been publicly humiliated, I can testify to the fact that religion is punishment.

My Native American Father and his parents did not have any better luck at the hands of the missionaries.

So you can see why this line has such truth in it for me.

Observing as an outsider, perhaps it's easier for most people to focus on the technicalities of the bible and to ignore the engineering of their project called Christianity. Unfortunately those that focus on the engineering tend to be controlling task masters, often with their own self interest in mind more than their gods.

.

Heh, there are over 60 different versions of the Bible in print in the U.S. alone - along with a bit over 40 "companion" works that many Christian denominations rank as equal to the Bible. I'd say you're blowing incense.



They can disagree all they like - and of course they do. It doesn't change the nature of things. This really isn't an answer - it's rhetorical hand-waving.



No, actually. This is merely another straw-man argument - you're laying down smoke again. What you've actually done is to demonstrate my original point - that in the last analysis you can appeal to faith, but little in the way of substantiated evidence. Faith is OK with me. Faith masquerading as "proof", or even "evidence" is not.



Always fascinates me how little Christians know about their own religion - and yes, here I'm singling out Christians, as other religionists are usually much better informed. Catholicism is Western Christianity, at least until Luther's rebellion in 1517. But there are a number of eastern flavors as well - notably the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Coptic Christian Church. Ask a "Christian" (the raincoat kind) to speak about these, and you almost always get blank looks.



I see. So you've been deliberately dumbing your argument down for the rest of us? Sorry, if you're going to argue a point, you'd better be prepared to defend it with evidence - and not just rhetoric out of your head.



Let me guess - there's nothing on under that raincoat you're wearing, is there?

I think most Christians who are interested in the history of Christianity know about the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Coptic Church.

Catholicism is NOT Christianity of the West, nor was it ever. It was A church that insisted it was THE Church. Even killing Christians who disagreed with their teachings. edit: The Catholic Church of today doesn't do these things, this is not an attack on Catholicism.

Ask a Christian what true Christianity is and he/she will most likely say it's following the teachings of Christ, which most Christians know, and even many non-Christians know.

The fact a bunch of people who claimed to be Christians did bad things in history has no bearing on what it means to be a true Christian. I mean really, how is one made a better Christian by knowing there was a time when there were 3 popes at the same time, or that one of those popes killed off several of the Cardinals who elect popes to secure his position? It's interesting to those of us who care to read about it, but it means nothing to a Christian seeking to do God's will.

Including you?

~Ulrika~

Yes, including me, nothing I do will change what it means to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim or any other religion one might find compelling.

The problem is that each you of you Christians has their own spin on what it means to be a 'true Christian', picking and choosing what they feel is accurate...very capricious.

Briana Dawson

Which is why it is important to look at what people are proposing and not blindly accept it just becaues they claim it is the Christian thing to do. Check it out, get some evidence from non-christians and make sure it adds up. Be on your guard.

And in this thread we're in total agreement! Aren't the forums funny?

~Ulrika~

ulrika, i'm teaching economics in the land economy forum. see you there! bring an apple.

And in your case... I'd guess nothing above yours, eh?

See Criss, it's easy to troll. Doesn't take particular skill or wit. Anyone can do it. I didn't respond to anything else of yours because I really didn't see anything in your post that warranted attention. All I saw was a lot of highly opinoinated assertions, a general lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with you, and attitude to the gills. Why should I spend time on that? LOL

You want to discuss... we can discuss. You want to insult people and troll, I've got no time for such. And I'm sure not going to take the bait of you and the other trolls who are popping up (as predicted).

There's no roadkill here. Maybe you should hover in other areas.

And in your case... I'd guess nothing above yours, eh?

See... it's easy to troll. Doesn't take particular skill or wit. Anyone can do it. I didn't respond to anything else of yours because I really didn't see anything in your post that warranted attention. All I saw was a lot of highly opinionated assertions, a general lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with you, and attitude to the gills. Why should I spend time on that? LOL

You don't want to discuss... you want to insult people. I've got no time for such. And I'm sure not going to take the bait of you and the other trolls who are popping up (as predicted).

What amazes me is that none of you seem to comprehend the simple fact that I'm not arguing for... or against... Christianity in all its various forms today (well, I may have said one or two things against the way mainstream religion operates, which has nothing to do with the Bible or Christianity as a concept). All I'm doing is making general observations about both sides of the issue. But I make a statement about Intelligent Design proponents being just as able to scientifically "prove" their side as evolutionists "prove" theirs, and the vultures gather!

Frankly, I'm amazed that you are all so willing to swallow the propaganda taught you all your lives. You accuse religious people of doing the very thing you do yourselves-- you accept what you were taught as children without ever questioning that it just might be wrong.

Eventually people should learn to think for themselves and consider additional possibilities. I don't see any evidence of such maturity--or effort-- in most of the posts I've read here. What I see a lot of is people spouting off anti-God anti-religious platitudes that are as much personal belief and opinion as the religious platittudes they're atttacking. LOL

Just because you personally believe something to be undeniably factual doesn't make you right. You can shout and insult as loud as you want-- all that proves is that you can shout and insult.

There's no roadkill here. Maybe you should hover in other areas. Go on.. shoo!

You'll pardon me if I don't respond to any more of this self-important silliness.

Christians are parts of the whole body. One might be a toe, another might be a finger. The toe and finger are on the same body, but have different jobs. The toe would think the finger is not doing God's work because it doesn't carry the body to it's new location. The finger may think the toe is not doing God's work because it can't pick up anything or carry things. Both are doing God's work from a different perspective. One is no more important than the other as far as God is concerned.

My belief is God communicates with each part individually. The parts of the body don't tell other parts how to be or what to do. The brain (God) tells each part.

That's why I don't care for organized religion too much, the leaders often try to control the whole body instead of doing their own part.