The Bible is a book.

And only a book.

Its also a handy doorstop.

Actually... technically speaking... it's a collection of books.

The fact it's the Manufacturer's Instruction Manual is another discussion.

Lewis

Case in point, "facts" don't mean anything since they are relative.

They're also really cool to read from if you're Samuel Jackson and you're ready to blow some knob away.

Hmmmm. You do know it wasn't written by this "manufacturer" you speak of --right?

Christians (and to a certain extent Jews) believe it was inspired thereby. Please stop putting down their beliefs just because you disagree.

Kendra, I like you, you're normally an intelligent poster, but this stuff... don't get involved hun... Religion is a no-win situation. We all know your stance, as we know Lewis's... please, leave it... These forums are not the right place.

And just so we're on an equal footing, and not to argue a point, I happen to be a Christian... I'm also a physicist and it's never been an issue for me.

It's sort of a fad to make fun of Christanity in these forums. I do it myself on occasion. The Bible is really full of comedy gold.

For a change of pace Here is a picture of a boy defiling a the Quran with boogers.






/me: Sits back and waits for the riots to start

I happen to be Jewish and was raised in a religious home. I'm not "dumping" on religion, and I can certainly agree that the Bible is divinely inspired --but I can also say that overtime what is considered the Bible at this point is a human diluted version.

The Torah (which I've read many times) is far closer to the original and if I had to pick one to consider close to God --it would be that. To this day, even as as an agnostic, I treat the Torah with reverence. I'm not under the delusion, however, that it was written by God. The reverence is for it's ancient wisdom.

So in point of fact --you dont seem to know my stance at all...and I like you as well

Actually, you may be surprised.... I agree about 99.999% here, and I knew your background from previous posts.

I agree about the Torah being the most important part, at least to Jews, but in the end, it all comes down to one thing, as Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" ... which forgetting all else makes a lot of sense.

I wasn't trying to insult you, I think that you're doing yourself a disservice by getting involved in this crap... I know you feel you need to defend Ulrika, but hun, it's below you. You're a very intelligent person.. please, argue those thinbgs that matter, not this stuff... and yes, I accept the fact that I too, should be leaving it alone.

All I was saying is that the Bible was written by men and not God. Divinely inspired --surely. Mercilessly edited over the last 2,000 years --ubetcha.

I wouldn't go so far as some and say I'd wipe myself with the Bible --I really just couldn't, but for me to correct Lewis who is claiming that God wrote the Bible isn't exactly just a knee-jerk defense of Ulrika (She doesn't need me to defend her). One could argue that I'm merely pointng at the divine spark in Man that even Jesus would have agreed with me on.

In any event, I'm really not trying to be contrary, but there is simply too much evidence to the otherwise for people to begin claiming in this day and age that The Bible was written by God.

Exactly. Except I think there are plenty of works, of fiction and non-fiction, that are divinely inspired, and not all of them are necessarily religious. I think much creativity is divinely inspired.

Religion is too important to be left alone. Everything in this world has the stamp mark of religion. In the Western world, JudeoChristian morality has been striped of its religious overtones and codified in legislation. Hell, even the very basic premise of democracy (everyone is equal before law) is the descendant of this perverted morality (everyone is equal before God). Democracy replaced religion, legislation replaced the Ten Commandments, killing for your country replaced killing for your God. But it's the same shit.

Some individuals can stand back from this world with an open mind, take a snapshot, and attempt to analyze the picture with as few "givens" as possible. What they end up seeing is a world that's founded upon an unnatural (and flawed) morality. Most of these people choose to not speak of this to anyone; to live in the closet so to speak. Others choose to say something about it. Invisibility and prosecution turns into visibility and tolerance. Outright denial turns into lukewarm acceptance. Acceptance turns into real change. Ulrika, Chip, and others choose to say something about it. To call what they do "crap," "low," and "a disservice" is, well, a disservice - and that's being nice about it.

ding ding ding.

Not only has it been written by men, It has been translated by men. The King James version of the bible was actually translated by a comittee, appointed by the King, who voted on how to translate many passages, and what books to include.

What the hell is a book?

Can you get it on iTunes?

Men were made and inspired by God, kings were crowned by the authority of God.

And Women knew better

Do you believe every old piece of writing is fictional, simply because it's old?

If you really want to be skeptical, you could say that the Bible has lost some in translation, and that it's incomplete, and even that it's been mistranslated.

But saying that it is fictional is both innaccurate (because of the dozens of historical documents that corroborate many of the stories) and recklessly hurtful.

I see Bush knows his audience quite well when he goes around saying that he talks to God.
You should see how recklessly hurtful it is to be told that you'd burn in hell for an eternity.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!

Exactly where did I say it was fictional. Because I don't believe I did.

isn't that the best use?

I will just put down my little 2 coppers here as for me it is an important subject and a huge part of the way I see the world. I am prepared to be flamed, damned and other painfull things but hey ! I'm a big guy.

The bible is half a fiction and half subjective truth. I say subjective because nobody can be fully objective about an event one loves. To me your jesus was a human ... a wonderfull humanist with a little mental disorder but with the right ideas and the presence to spread them. It is the credulity and desperation of the people during this period that made a prophete, the son of god, or anything else of him.

To me it is quite simple to sum up what I think ... but hard to explain (if it makes sense). God (any god) is nothing but a human creation to reinsure itself by thinking they are protected, not alone in this huge universe and that above all ... they are not masters of their destiny. that every of their action as already a planed effect and that he can't be wrong if he follows what his god says.... but as it has always been (before any god and prolly long after they are extincted) nature has ruled the world differently. every action gets a reaction ... nothing good nothing evil ... just balance.

To me what we could call god is the little light in every Human that makes him able of the better ... or the worst. God is what makes of us able to shape our life and environment to our need, our ability to create. but in no way it is a superior intelligent entity that laughs or cry with every of our actions.

If you really need a god call the force that created the universe god ... but to me it will simply be ... nature.

Actually, as far as man is concerned, there was always good and bad (up until Moses came along).

Food, clothing, health, education, the Romans, etc. were good. Hunger, nakedness, disease, ignorance, the Jews, etc. were bad. Then smart Moses comes along and says: Fuck that. We are not the bad ones. It is us who are the good ones. Not only that, but it is us, the hungry, the poor, the sick, and the naked, who are chosen by God. And it is the Romans, the rich, the powerful, and the decadent who are the bad ones. In fact, they are so bad that they are beyond bad. THEY ARE EVIL. But don't worry my friends, he said. You'll take your sweet revenge after death when they'll be burning in hell and you'll be chilling in paradise.

So there was always the concept of good and bad. And, at first, it was based on natural laws. Food, clothing, shelter, etc. are inherently beneficial to us ("good" in the natural sense). Hunger, nakedness, etc. are "bad." Judaism, however, turned this concept onto its head. Bad became good, and good became evil. The unnatural (hunger, disease, chastity, etc.) became good. The natural (richness, health, sex, etc.) became bad.

Judaism and Christianity were founded upon a cunning reversal of natural values that was born out of resentment and was purposed to inflict revenge.