The Bible is a book.

Uhm. There were no Romans around when Moses was alive. Rome didn't yet exist as a nation.

I was just using very broad strokes Devlin. Romans, Moses, etc. stand for haves and have-nots.

no Rick I donn't agree on that ... bad and good is only a matter of opinion ... do you think that buddhist monks care if they are naked or not ? do you think tribes in Africa or any other "savage" country care if they are naked ?

that's only an example.

a Wise man said once : if your body wasn't made to endure cold ... you would be born with fur, if your skin was too weak to keep you safe ... you'de be born with scales.

anyway I'm digressing. To me anybody can believe what he wants ... what makes me think "mainstream" religions (which, I should remind you, where first called sects) are a very bad thing for humanity ... is that they don't let everybody free of their belief ... "if you don't believe in god (allah or whatever) you'll go to hell".

God (and I'm not a believer ) if hell gets me rid of all biggots I say amen !

Just noticed- not once in any threads about religion & all its wacky believers, has any one mentioned Tom Cruise.

But..but...he isn't God, nor has he played God. I'm guessing it's cause he's too egocentric.

Good find Lucifer

....and not a very good one at that...

I tried reading it once, you know, just to see what all the big deal was.

Wow it was so boring... my assigned readings for Agro-Economics are more fun than that was.

Well, since Fundamentalist can get away with parking cars in a nearby parking lot and drowning out the opening day of a Wiccan book shop (law Enforcement stayed away) then I think that gives other people the right to put down their belief in the bible.

Just cos the Fundie was an asshole, and obviously the LE officialls too, doesn't give other people the right to be assholes too.

Yawn

Try 100 of them including children and teens.

That's a whole lotta assholes!

Actually, that's a very hateful thing to say. Besides, atheists attack Christianity because it oppresses them. There's a difference (in taste, not severity of crime ).
Well, ok, perhaps buddhist monks don't care whether they are naked or not, but they do care about good and bad, or to use their terminology, right and wrong. They use concepts such as right mindfulness, right speech, right action, etc. Also, why harp on nakedness? How about hunger or disease? You just cannot say that it is opinion that makes these things bad. Not when beings interested in their own self-preservation are involved (be they humans, primates, or other animals). I just cannot see how it could be otherwise. I guess all this ties in with what is to be a moral agent, what makes someone subject to moral considerations.
Sure, they can believe whatever the heck they want; as long as they don't get too much in my way. Then it's war.

I was leaving the city today to see family out in the Valley and as I drove down Mission Street, I scoffed at a "Jesus Saves" neon sign, thinking how in the name of God (or son as the case might be) millions have died and continue to die. In a flash of inspiration the antithesis of the "Jesus Saves" mantra-on-a-cross came to me. After a quick Google search without fruition, I sketched up my idea.



It's an excellent addition to my collection of original controversial works. Naturally, I'll have to do it in the style of a Mission neon sign before it's complete. I'll post it when I'm done.

~Ulrika~

There's nothing at all hateful in telling someone they have made an unwise decision. I don't know exactly what the OP thought would be accomplished by such a thread... but no good comes of attacking the deep conviction of others.

Myself, I pretty much live and let live when it comes to such areas. People may or may not believe in Christianity (or whatever religion)... doesn't give anyone the right to attack the faith preference of others. But if they choose to do so, then I think I'm pretty accurate in telling them that is not the course of wisdom.

In regard to the opening statement, that the Bible is just a book (and without wanting at all to get into a big debate about the Bible. Just not gonna go there) I do have a question or two for the OP: what qualifies you to make such a blanket statement? Bible scholar? Ever read the book all the way through? Done extensive research? Checked both sides of the issue? Or is that just personal opinion based on general observations without further examination?

Thus, my original post: it is foolish to attack the deep convictions of others. No good comes of it. Either you wind up with a heavy flamer thread with a lot of people angry, or you wind up with a bunch of athiests patting each other on the backs. Neither one is of value. It's simply an unwise course and often comes across more as pomposity than a true debate. I think that "Kill Jesus" post falls way into that realm. Religious or athiest, Christian or Buddhist... anyone should know better than that kind of nonsense.

For about two thousand years the Church actively murdered and tortured individuals who questioned its mythologies. Now that we can finally point out the absurdity of the fairy tales without being filleted, please allow us to make up for lost time.

~Ulrika~

Then discuss the activities of the Church (and I might ask, which Church?). As far as allowing you to make up for lost time... hey, you all opened the can of worms. Believe me, I'm mild compared to what is likely to follow if people get wind of this thread. LOL

I will surely agree that there have been more atrocities committed in the name of God, the Bible and the Church than just about anything else in history. However, from what I've heard of the guy, there is nothing in Jesus' teachings that authorizes or condones such activity. Just the opposite in fact. I think "turn the other cheek" and "return evil for evil to no one" and "love thine enemies" are quotes known by just about everyone, religious or not. So before you take it upon yourself to curse and (what many would consider) blaspheme an individual, maybe you need to make sure you're targeting the right individual.

If I were a judge and you were presenting a court case, I'd have to throw it out as a matter of accusing the wrong party. You seem to equate church activities with Jesus and the Bible. Undertandable mistake, but I'd have to say that's your first error in this premise.

(You may have guessed... I've seen such discussions before on other forums. Like I said, no good ever comes of it).

Can you show me a Chrstianity? What are its dimensions? What color is it?

Or did you mean CHRISTIANS oppress people, but realized that that wouldn't justify your arguement?

Actually it's people professing to be christians that oppress other people. If these people were truly christian (i.e. Christ-like) they would not be opressors.

Well, I agree with that, actually. I was more just commenting on the anthropomorphization of an idea.

What about if I look on biblegateway.com? Then it is not a book, it is a webpage! What about then?

I hope they kill you, infidel. I declare a fatwa!

Whether or not the Bible was diviniely inspired is impossible to prove - this is a faith Issue.

Whether or not Later translations and retranslations and researches were and are divinely inspired is also impossible to prove- again a faith issue.

It is a fact that the bible does have some historical basis. There has been serious non theological historical studies on many aspects. This does not include ANY of the supernatural events/ concepts/ etc. in the bible since this is impossible to prove - and a faith issue.

It is a fact that of numerious versions of different books in the bible and books left out of the bible not all said exactly the same thing. The books that make bible was standardized and made Cannon hundreds of years after Christ's death. And this was a commitee type process.

There were at one time ?supposed? (hard to know) Gospels of Mary Magdelin and Judas, for example. As well as other texts.

It is these sorts of descrepancies from the early days that fuel the speculation that lead to fantasy/fictional stories such as the Davinici code.