Thanks ACLU: War Memorial To Be Torn Down

It doesnt. Because the Supreme court justices arent elected by the people but put forth by one person then debated.

Police have refused to arrest, overlooking people because a punishment put forth is way too severe.

Judges have put forth alternative punishments (like the Vermont judge, Cashman I think he is).

when it is part of the culture of 80% of the population I think it is safe to say that is American culture. its like say the Rebel Flag, its a Southern Culture thing yet only about half of the southern populace support it or even recognize the NON-KKK history attached to it.

Yeah, well some people think the ACLU is a dangerous organization with an agenda. That's a different debate. In that light, it isn't shouldn't be a surprise when someone suggests that the ACLU is helping drive an anti-Christian agenda. I'm not saying it would be applicable in this case (I am not interested in that tangent), but for some the ACLU is PART of the problem.

Judges and courts have been wrong in the past, as well as the constitution (amendments?). So, lets not pretend that it isnt possible.

but thier cases are decided by a simple majority vote. and its not the election process i am discussing, its the actual way that they work ONCE elected, i think we may have been discussing 2 different parts

yeah, you're an idiot

This thread is fun, in the same way that hearing a hatchet strike bone is fun.

Thanks.

ZOMG personal attack! Yeah, bs. Youre the idiot. Cross = christian not cross = american. Its a religious symbol. Now lets make it easier and keep it off war memorials, kthnxbye.

Haha, you were just waiting for me to call someone out on their idiocy, weren't you?

Again, when I see fit, I'll call them like I see them. Jonas is a dumbass and Nolan is a vengeful troll.

how about we keep it off NEW memorials, and pre-existing ones we leave well enough alone? this is all about a guy trying to rewrite history to fit his views and not the views of the time it was done. now yall are welcome to call me a crass idiot or w/e you want i'm done debating a useless point with a bunch of head in the clouds utopians.

Depends, can we put up a upside down cross 'honoring the soldiers' before the 'old' line kicks in?

Certainly, and I'll even say that my first reaction is to disagree with how this came out (but it was chosen because it was an extreme example, after all).

I can even respect (well, that's a little strong, say rather understand the thinking behind) the notion that the ACLU is subversive (are we talking about Al-Qaeda now, or just one of the last places in the world you can still find communists?). But even if they are subversive, they are only asking a question that probably needs to be asked, given the diversity of political perspectives in this country.

Again, how can they be blamed for the outcome of the process? Which process, even if not perfect, is a fundamental reflection of our constitution.

--Allie

The opinion of a mergence of organs and bone has never bothered my ego, nor swayed my opinion.

Let me point you to my blog:

http://www.sl.me.com/_blog/index.php?blogid=22370

I've gotten many comments about my posts. This one was a mentor..and ya know what? His opinion means nothing to me.

Marylin Manson is a part of American culture. Maybe a giant statue of him would make a fitting tribute to the troops. Or maybe the McDonald's Arches or a huge Coca-Cola logo? Or maybe memorials that should honor the fallen with equal respect regardless of their religion, or on federal property that's paid for by non-Christians isn't the most appropriate place to advertise Christianity, no matter how well intentioned it is.

Agreed, they can't be blamed for the outcome. You are right, they don't have Jedi Mind powers. But they are accountable for the role they play in advocating a particular outcome.

Good response Chip!

Your statement displays either enormous ignorance or complete disregard for the role of cultural traditions, symbols and values in every society in the known history of man. And again, symbols of the Christian Tradition ARE part of Ameican culture. Even though you hate that fact, it is true.

So you'd be fine with a war memorial that was a giant golden arches then. Got it.

I should rephrase that to:

symbols of the Christian Tradition ARE powerful and important parts of Ameican culture

If it makes you feel good to suggest that I even came close to saying that, then go for it big Chip.

Now I know you are ignorant and not just pretending to be ignorant.

Well, since you want to go by such subjective qualifiers, so are the golden arches! (powerful and important I mean, depending on who you ask of course).

No shit, sherlock. But I think you would agree that the golden arches don't hold the kind of cultural value that makes them appropriate for a memorial to fallen soldiers. The cross is a universal symbol that has significance well beyond the christian faith. Becasue you don't know that does not make it false.

Why do you hate McDonald's, Champie?

Nah, it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just the overarching tone of the thread. It happened to follow your post, but I would have quoted you had I been directing it at you, rest assured. Plus, Jonas is a big boy, and can fight his own battles.

My intention wasn't to troll, but to maybe make everyone think for a second, that's all.

I do think there are much more important things to worry about, to be honest, and having lost my dad to the Vietnam war, I do appreciate memorials. However, I definately think that in the future, the cross should not be used for this purpose. The wall in DC, and other non-religious memorials and iconography like the Iwo Jima flag raising work just fine for me.

I do think there are some ACLU types who have a bit too much time on their hands (the guy who has been on the 14 year attempt to get this thing dismantled - it would have been cool if he had devoted all that energy to something a little more, I dunno, productive, like lobbying against war or something, but I suppose that is a subjective opinion on my part, and that's really his business, not mine - that is how he chooses to spend his time and exercise his freedom, and he is perfectly within his rights in doing so), but I do think that placing a cross, on government property, to memorialize a group of people who were most definately not all Christian, and who were goverment employees, is actually technically unconsitutional. If we aren't going to allow the Ten Commandments in courthouses, we probably shouldn't allow other religious imagery on public spaces either.

I am also of the mind that saying Christianity = American culture is a highly dangerous mindset, not to mention very insulting to non-Christians. It definately could and probably does make them feel marginalized. I know it does me.

If not for that guy we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it, and we wouldn't (hopefully) be moving towards a consensus that things like this are inappropriate in the future.

I think I love you now.