War Has Been Declared, choose your side.

I think you are on the wrong thread Corvus. No one here is saying we were pushed into a conflict.

Go back to the orignal post and read all of them before posting a reply, that way you will know what the topic is.

You are soooo dead for making me feel soooo old.



Not Israel. The Arabs. Say it with me: A R A B S. They're kinda the antiIsrael.

Israel doesn't have any oil, although there are rumors of a huge deposit hidden below the salt dome under the southern end of the Dead Sea. A friend of mine, now passed on, owned an oil company that had a contract to try to find it. His son is now following in his footsteps. If they succeed, it'll be the deepest well ever drilled.

His theory is that the salt dome, which is what produces the incredibly high salt content of the Dead Sea, was produced when the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which supposedly once stood where the Dead Sea is now, were destroyed -- whether by God, aliens, or whatever. There are signs that SOMETHING produced an incredible heat source millennia ago that created an incredibly thick layer of salts that lies underneath the water there. It actually resembles the glassy sands at White Sands, New Mexico where the first nuclear bomb test took place.

Interesting stuff.

P2

can yall clarify which Billy PLEASE?

Hmm with the help of french Paratroopers, the RAF and US intel yer right, they beat back the invaders.
The Isreali's are unbeatable in a conventional war, are they good Hell yes! but on at least 2 occasions it took the direct military intervention of the US, France and Britain to keep their jack boots a stompin.
the fact that they stole US secrets and have built nukes is a scary thing, because you are absolutly right, they will use them

Thank you for being someone who is not saddled with guilt over what happened in Europe in the 30-40's.
Isreal's Human rights record is pretty piss poor, as a "friend to the US. well they have attacked and sank our Ships, stolen state secrets, and in general told us to stuff ourselves dispite that fact that the US pays for a great deal of their government.
If people actually go back and look at Palistine in the 1900's thru 1920's you will see, Arabs and Jew's peacfully co exsisting with very little conflict, the rise of the Zionist movment in England led to the demand for a homeland and to a feeling that it was their's and nobody else should be allowed to have it.
Let me ask you people who say they are only fighting for their survival a question. If the UN came in and told you that you had to leave your home that had been in your family for generations because Lakota Indian History said that it was their promised land how would you react?
Now, haveing said all that, I will say, Isreal is a fact of life that the world must accept, and their military is top notch and yes I do wish the US would adopt a little of their jack booted in your face attitude about some things.

umm WHAT?
I think you need to read a little history.
It amazes me how people here in teh US have so little interest in History yet every major issue we face today has a historical cause.
The Arabs considered teh Zionists to be invaders that is why they fought, it is not a religious war as much as peopel would hav eyou think it is, purely a fight over land that both lay historical claim to

They didn't steal US tech to build the nukes Troll, we gave them to them back in the 50's. (We gave them to the Chinese too btw) They have refined them since then though.

What strawman? I asked you where the death camps were. You compared Israel to the Nazis and I asked where the death camps were. Where are they? Oh, wait, there aren't any. The Israelis are nothing like the Nazis. And while we're dealing with your moronic statement, do you still believe that Israel deserves terrorist attacks because of the alleged actions of a few Jews 80 or 90 years ago? And if you do, how is that not racist?



And you follow this with what? An ad hominem attack of your own.


I didn't attack you. I attacked your statement. I said your statement made you look like a raving anti-semite. And it did. Your bizarre attribution that I somehow am some sort of a racist is disgusting. I did not, and have not, used ethnic slurs like "raghead".



Distant? Iran is distant from Israel? It's about 600 miles from the border of Israel to the border of Iran. Which is just about an hour traveling time in a Boeing 747. Not that far at all.



Are we to take that as another ad hominem attack? Are you calling us stupid?



Why? All you have done is attack me. You failed to address any of the issues I brought up. You failed to support your insane Israel=Nazi post. Why would I want to "join you in discussion" when you don't seem to want to actually discuss anything?

Supporting a democracy against thugs has nothing to do with the Holocaust. I'm assuming you meant the planned, methodical extermination of European Jewry when you wrote, "what happened in Europe in the 30-40's."

Israel has a better human rights record than any other country in the region. It is the only functioning democracy in the region. It is the only country in the region where women, gay people and ethnic minorities are protected by law.

Your version of history leaves a few things out. You fail to mention that the majority of Israelis are not of European descent, but are descended from Jews from other parts of the Middle East and North Africa. You fail to mention that they were expelled from their countries after Israel declared its independence. You fail to mention that Jerusalem had a Jewish majority up until 1948. Jews have been present in the area for thousands of years. In the late 40's and through the 50's Jews in Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon and other countries were stripped of their citizenship and deported, most with just the clothes on their backs. Jews had lived in Iraq for 3000 years, since the time of the Persian Empire. Then they were forced out. Where could they go? The only country in the world that would take them was Israel.

All too often people focus on the Arab refugees and forget the Jewish refugees. Why? Because the Jewish refugees were integrated into Israeli society while the Arab refugees were kept in camps and banned from owning land or working in Lebanon and other Arab countries.

ok the French and British invaded Egypt to regain the Suez Canal after Egypt nationalized it. They didn't fight for Isreal, they were protecting thier interests because they were afraid Nassir would close the canal to foreign ships. Now as for US involvement, we trade intel with dozens of countries, if I remember correctly, Isreal was the one who gave us a Mig-27 during the Cold War. So before you make statements like

but on at least 2 occasions it took the direct military intervention of the US, France and Britain to keep their jack boots a stompin.

research the situation some.

Wow. Michael, I just wanted to say it's a pleasure to read someone who has informed themselves on the facts. Thank you.

It is not so much Israel which has repressed the Palestinians -- for the most part ever since the 1948 war, Arab citizens of Israel have fled their homes in panicked flight (those who stayed were not killed & eaten) but were not welcomed by Jordan, Syria, or other Arab states because that would have made the refugees a non-issue in their eternal war with Israel. They would rather victimize the Palestinians and keep them homeless than offer any real solution to assimilating them.

That said, there are large Palestinian populations in Jordan, Iraq and Kuwait among other nations -- Kuwait depends on Palestinian workers to run its oil industry. King Hussein slaughtered thousands of Palestinians in a civil war in 1970-71 because they threatened to usurp his monarchy (Yassir Arafat ordered the PLO to overthrow Hussein, calling him "fascist". Nobody talks about that, which probably resulted in many times the Arab death toll that any single Israeli military action ever has.

One final note on achieving peace. If you look at a graph of Israeli deaths due to terrorist attacks, you will notice a very strange coincidence between peace efforts and a rise in violence. After Carter brought Begin and Sadat together to sign the Camp David accords in 1978, Saddat was assassinated by radical officers from the Islamic Brotherhood. The signing of the Oslo accords in '93 only brought the Second Intifada and resulted in thousands of Israeli deaths to terrorism.

It is obvious that there have been radical elements among the Palestinians who do not want peace with Israel in any form, and indeed this threat of violence has hampered the efforts of the PLO as they find themselves caught between the desire for a Palestinian state on the one hand and the violent groups among it who feel that state should incorporate all of modern Israel.

That is the basic tension which works against any lasting peace -- more so than Arab leaders who have treated the Palestinians as pawns and certainly far more than mythical Israeli desires for expansion. It is that some Palestinians simply cannot fathom putting down their guns while Israel exists.

True enough but lets also remember that the expulsion of the jews from other Middle Eastern Countries was a response to the formation of Isreal..and happened after the expulsion of palestinians had begun, would they even have been refugee's had the UN not in my opinion over stepped it's mandate in a wave of international guilt over the lack of action in the 30's
I did not fail to mention that the Jew's had been there, in fact I pointed out that until the Zionist Movemnet ramped up in teh 20's, that they had peacfully coexsisted in Palestine.
Thousands of Palestinians who had also been in the region for thousands of years were also deported very often with nothing but teh clothes on their back by the Isreali's.
Belive me, I belive there is plenty of blame on both side, neither side is innocent, neither side plays clean, and neither side can claim a moral high ground.
personallyI think the whole region shoujld be given back to the Turks. During time of teh Ottoman's control it was a garden spot with a enforced tolerance for all relgions
All to often people focus on the "plight" of Isreal and point to it as a beacon of Democracy in the region and overlook it's totalitarian approach and like to over look that often it 's ruling party is also a dogmatic religious party

Wow, this is weird, I so very strongly agree with teh second half of your post while disagreeing with much of the 1st half.
Remember, not all th earabs whpo left were running in panic, thousands had their land seized bythe UN mandate and were told to get off it. just out oif curiosity why do you belive that the other Arab State had any obligation to take in thousands of people left homless by UN action? why didn't the UN expect this and make provisions?

I'm really curios if everybody would feel the same way had teh UN decided that Manhatten was to be the new Jewish homeland, after all there are still more people of teh Jewish faith in NYC than in Isreal. and , they had been there as long as anybody else. (aborigional American's aside)

I thought Manhattan already was a jewish settlement?

I'm trying to figure out your reference, Troll. By "mandate" are you referring to the 1947 UN resolution creating the State of Israel? If you are, that mandate ( text of document here ) says nothing at all about siezing land. In fact, at the time of the Israeli War of Independence there were many towns in Israel where Arab & Jew lived peacefully alongside each other -- a situation that still existed up until the 2nd Intifada. At that point, subsequent siezure of Arab land was soundly condemned by the UN.

My only incrimination of other Arab states lies in the fact that, to them, the refugee issue has only been a political football rather than a true cause in which to invest themselves. You have one of the richest nations on earth sitting right next door in Saudi Arabia, yet thousands of refugees live in squalor in temporary camps?

It implies shit Juro. You are a moron, DON'T MAKE THINGS UP AND ATRIBUTE THEM TO ME.

What is vicious is THE FARKING PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT, the one electred by PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, supporting strapping a bomb to one of their supporters chest, having them walk into a market place, a bus, a nightclub, a grocery store and heroically blowing up WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Support that shit if you want, I NEVER will.

But violence is okay with you when it involves guns and missles? Interesting distinction.

I agree... PLEASE don't atribute anything that Billybob says to me.

I made no distinction about it one way or another Kendra. Why do you people insist on MAKING SHIT UP and atributing it to someone else?

please don't confuse me with Billy Grace. I am nowhere near that emotional over this

Please don't confuse me with Billybob Goodlife. I am nowhere near as emotional as him and didn't repetedly make jackass statements about how I don't want to be confused with him then bitch about it when he does the same thing.

LISTEN UP DUMBASS, I only ask for clarification so I know who to respond to. Now if you have a problem with me asking for clarification of addressie (sp?) tough titty!