Why does it seem the SL population hates Christians?

To the atheist these are essentially equivalent statements. If one starts from the assumption that there is no god, then "god wants a presense here" only makes sense interpreted as "I want god to have a presense here".

I think many of the issues stem from this difference of initial assumption. To the atheist, a Christian saying that god wants something sounds like the Christian wants something, and is hiding behind his imaginary friend, redirecting what looks like an arrogant position to be attributed to his god (and if god did exist, then the position, as held by that god, would not be so arrogant).

God being all-loving and the existence of Hell are mutually exclusive.

I agree. I am doing no good here by responding. Corvus I would love to discuss with you in private sometime, I am enjoying this debate and admit some of what you say does make sense, I can see how my words can be translated the way you interpreted them.

For this reason I now see that a public forum with such delayed response is not a good way for me to have such a discussion.

Since when were you declared Forum Censor? There are plenty of things that cause discord within the Second Life community - deal with it. And this thread is serving a purpose, although you mayt not like it.

Briana Dawson

Ty, FYI I think you've tried to present your ideas in non-confrontational ways but it's the message that's the problem, not your delivery.

I've been having religious discussions on various internet boards and newsgroups for about 10 years now, and this response by you seems to be the standard outcome. In fact, you use almost the exact verbiage as other believers do once they realize that their subjective beliefs cannot be easily defended with logical debate. What they thought they had coming into a debate turns out to be mostly their own emotional perceptions (such is the nature of personal revelation) rather than solid philosophical grounds for belief.

Then they run away.

There are other ways to express one's religious beliefs than to claim they will work for everyone. You could adopt a theo-philosophical approach (questioning Man's inherent goodness?) or you could become more conversant with the scholarship behind Paul's founding of the modern Church and discuss the difference between his idea of spiritual duality and the singularity that was custom in Jewish thought at the time. There's plenty of room for discussion there without falling back on the tired old "the Bible says it" and "I know what God wants" assertions, which are red flags for those of us who are as passionate in our unbelief as you are in your belief.

Very wise revelation. A forum, indeed, is a poor place to discuss one's personal beliefs, but a great place to discuss belief systems. Where Christianity struggles isn't at the text, it's at the church, because Christians are taught to discuss their personal beliefs as being the belief system, and the belief system as their personal belief. They aren't the same thing. I may be Wiccan, but I do not agree with certain bits of widely recognized rhetoric within that faith. Christians should understand that their personal relationship with God is something more important than (and indeed, can be very different from,) their religion.

Edit: When people debate their individual belief, instead of discussion on the systems themselves, it boils straight down to sophistry.

Briana,

Just take down the damn 5,000 prim bookcases already so other people can use some prims! Oops, wrong discord thread, carry on

However, if the amount of hatred thrown against Christians in this thread had been directed at homosexuals or a particular ethnic group, you can bet it would have been locked permanently a long long time ago.

It's called selective censorship.

Lewis

A resident can ask that a thread that has degenerated into Flamming, trolling, personnel attacks and primary a dissusion between two residents get closed. I think this thread hits on at least 4 reasons to close a thread.

This thread has no purpose. We all know that people have different religous beliefs. Making fun of someone elses religion should not be tolerated. It is a subject that is very hard to discuss without offending other people. This thread is deeply offensive to me.

I ask again that it gets closed.

Very Respectfully Submitted

Ranma of Okinawa

Questions:

How do you know what the Xian god wants?

If the Xian god is omnipresent why isn't it already in 2L?

If the Xian god is omnipotent why does it need you to enter 2L?

Yet, when you and Lewis were the ones committing those acts, you did not want the forum closed. It wasn't until one form of judgment was outnumbered by another, and Christians here started consenting that you and Lewis were being silly, and when Ty said that he had gained a new understanding on how people might take what he was saying, that you called for it being closed.

This thread has been deeply offensive to many people, because you are just as guilty a party as anyone else. Don't claim you were specifically persecuted, as the responses are a reaction to fundamentalist persecution on the whole, and by you and Lewis. You're requesting a double-standard just because you "lost" a forum argument, if that's possible, and that's the worst possible reason to close a thread. Don't hide behind policies when you yourself were abusing them only pages ago.

Sorry, Ranma, no religion is free from criticism in my book. This is the right to free speech. You have the right to pursue any religion you want and I have the right to criticize any religion I want.

If this thread offends you, don't read it. Nobody's making you read anything on these forums. Just don't click on it; it's that simple.

Persecuted because you are a (presumably) white, American male, who can afford an SL capable machine and internet connection. Fight the power!

*goes off to weep for the guy who is so oppressed*

Funny thing is, it DID get directed at homosexuals very briefly, and did get directed at an ethnic group (Jews).

Actually, I think we are all getting beat up on. I tried to stop the thread yesterday through other means. It did not work.

Also this is not about winning or losing. It is about our beliefs and my beliefs are much deeper that exchanging messages on a thread can change them. You are offensive to me and continue to offend me. Nothing you can write will change my belief, NOTHING! You dont even know what my beliefs are.

In religion it is winning and losing have nothing to do with it. It is how we feel about it.

Useless? No, I don't think so, I have followed the 45 or so pages of it these past two days, and I have found a couple of very interesting points being raised.

I also would like to have a couple words with you, Ty, if we have the chance some day. You really look like one of those Christians who can talk about their faith without being asses. In my experience sensible religious persons are the majority, but sadly the raving fundamentalists who "use" and "abuse" Christ tend to give a very bad image of Christinity...

* looks at own profile *

* walks away chuckling *

You know, you're making a lot of assumptions about me in just that short line I wonder how many other things - and other people - are wrong about me?

Lewis

Who cares if your 'religion' or 'faith' is getting bashed. It's called freedom of speech. No one was abuse reporting the Christians were expressing their faith offensively.

You don't have to read this thread.

Briana Dawson

Neither do you. Yet you continue to do so. I wonder why?

Lewis

Yet you still keep reading the thread.

These are our opinions and we will voice them no matter how offended you get.

Honestly I don't know, but it could have been stated differently. I was thinking about this as I was strolling around town for lunch and I think it comes down to what we define as acceptable and unacceptable behavoir and the wide array of justifications for each. Take for instance, hypothetically, If I told one of my co-workers that they were going to hell for being a Jew and not accepting CHrist and then told them that everyone who died in the holocaust also went to hell for not accepting Christ etc.... One of two things would happen 1) I would probably be reprimanded for unacceptable behavoir or 2) I would be fired for unacceptable behavoir. Whether it a core element of my belief system or not would not be a justification. I would be seen most likely as creating a hostile work environment and/or violating some mandate on discrimination in the work place. However, if I quietly believe what I believe without directly attacking people for it then that is another story. This hypothetical situation begs the question here in the forums of what is acceptable given certain parameters of justification and what is unacceptable regardless of the justification. Aside from that dangerous territory is tread upon where one group of people is deemed superior to another inferior group of people. This dangerous mode of thought has is why things like the Rwandan genocide happen. Where do you draw the line in the superior/inferior mode of thinking?

Now if people would allow that luxury of expression to Christians, this whole thread wouldn't exist.

Don't you see how unequal all this is?

Lewis

Yeah, but I'm not the one whining about it, am I?

What do homosexuals and Jewish people have to do with anything? It is my understanding that Jewish people have their own covenant with the lord. About the other, I was taught that it is a sin no different than any of the other sin. Thus how can being a Christian be called Homosexural bashing? I suppose you could say the same about the other sins, drinking, taking the lords name in vain, sex outside of marriage, etc. This aspect does confuses me.