A Question for Christians

That's because you're a selfish bastard.

~Ulrika~

if you are talking about slavery and misogyny, i'd say yeah i'm a little less willing to endorse the celebration of some really vile moments of human history as roleplay.

i didn't insult anyone chip. unless you mean calling you out as a bigot. which you are.

That's such a bogus argument. Slavery in BDSM has nothing even remotely to do with any other kind of slavery, and to pretend it does it just plain ignorant. Real slavery is impossible between consenting adults. That's just simple common sense. Your failure to grasp it is truly a stunning display of your prowess as a critical thinker.

No, it's because I'm a fascist warmonger that wants to further the Military Machine.

Don't be too hard on him for this, Chip... I have no problem with BDSM or sub/dom culture (Without going into it in more detail, trust me I have no problem with it), but even for me there is something... different about playing with slavery. Volentary or not. It often seems very... predatory, in an unhealthy way.

I will be hard on him. I don't like BDSM either. I find nothing about it in any way appealing. But it's not imposed on me in any way. I have no reason to insult people for the things they engage in with other consenting adults just because I don't personally find them appealing.

If we could find a way to use starving children as bullets, we'd be set!

~Ulrika~

I think the problem is that there is a concern (and from what I've seen, not wholey unjustified) that certain (not to over use a word today) extreme (hopefully) elements of the slavery scene are not exactly between consenting adults. I don't mean that it's literal slavery, but I think there is a lot of preying on weak-willed people in certain facets of the scene.

I'm sure that's true, but I just don't find it a valid justification when any such abuses can be easily ended simply by logging off.

You have more confidence in the willpower of emotionaly damaged people than I do, I'm afraid.

Not necessarily, but that becomes an issue of personal responsibility.

To use an extreme example, if someone stood around at 3am in the warehouse district of NYC yelling "I'm unarmed and carrying ten thousand dollars in cash!" and then got mugged, I wouldn't feel any sympathy for them.

However, someone doing that while secretly being armed with full body armor and a fully automatic weapon would be hillarious.

Which again proves my point: people can't actually debate on these or most forums. What starts out as a discussion of facts quickly turns in to a series of non-sequiters or personal attacks.

Selador, look again at the part right before your quote:

21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, "You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."
22 At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
23 4 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!"

Jesus is talking to a (particular) wealthy man, asks him to drop everything and follow him. The man does not, but goes home to his possessions instead.

Because of his clinging to his prosperity, the man was unwilling to "take the leap" and put his faith in God. That is why it is so hard for the rich to get into the kingdom.

Context matters.

This was a good post.

But I will explain in my words. (without changing Gods words, or at least trying not to)
First of all I agree that the exact translation is not an issue, as either way it is translated it means the same thing.
Some people may say "But im not rich.", Well that is completely a point of view thing. I may be rich to you or visaversa.
But you should not treat your worldy possesions like God's.
If you put God first, then it dosn't matter how rich or poor you are.
You should be willing to give up anything at anytime "Especially if God tells you to".
A simple example I hear people use a lot is tv, But I think in this situation SL would work better
Lets say for example that you have some set time that you devote every day to reading the bible. But today there is something cool going on in SL, so you skip reading your bible. You have just put something before God. At this very moment you are a "rich" man with that specific possesion that you love more than God.(or at least mistakenly put before God). Someone who has a lot of earthly possessions will fall into this more often than someone with nothing at all. Thus why it is easier to fit a camel/or/whatever through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingom.
Even with all that said, the point he was trying to make is in verse 26.
"But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Oddly this is reflected in American culture. We are a very charitable nation - if we can volunteer and decide for ourselves.

Firstly, the camel/cord distinction is in fact very important. A camel is just a large object that won't go through the eye of a needle. A cord is a different matter, though. As a cord it will not go through, but if you pull it apart until there is just one thread left, it will go through. This seems to me to be a metaphorical description of what the rich man has to do to get into heaven. He has to lose everything. Everything.

I'm sure that's true, but I just don't find it a valid justification when any such abuses can be easily ended simply by logging off.

You have more confidence in the willpower of emotionaly damaged people than I do, I'm afraid.

I am not at all sure it's true. I have seen no evidence of it. The anti-Gorean sentiments seem to me to be just part of the growing bigotry and intolerance of Second Life.

The things you have said recently in this forum have sounded very much like the things I remember hearing about gay people when I was young.

But, you've been adament through this entire thread that ONLY 19:24 is in discussion. Only what Jesus said in 19:24. He said NOTHING about unravelling a cord. The only way you can start to get your interperation is if you consider other verses before and after 19:24, which you aren't willing to do when considering any other interperation. With just 19:24 in discussion, the distinction between cord and camel is absolutely 100% meaningless.

I have seen evidence of it, being very close to that circle. But my distaste isn't against Goreans in particular, except for unrelated reasons, but rather any groups that practice similar lifestyles.

Oh, well, then. That includes me. So if you find me so distasteful, I suggest you bugger off and don't speak to me again.