A Question for Christians

This is a genuine question, not something to gain points. It is asked because I want to understand the Christian mind-set.

Christ said: "It is easier for a cord to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

That is the actual quote, free of mistranslations ('cord' replacing the King James's 'camel'). So please don't start on about 'The Needle' being the name of a mythical gate in Jerusalem or any nonsense like that.

Now that quote is quite specific. If you are rich, you don't stand any chance whatever of enjoying eternal bliss. The image is a very good one, because if you got rid of 99% of the cord you could pass the remainder through the needle's eye. Jesus also said that if you really wanted to follow him you would have to give up everything you owned. He is not talking relative poverty here, he means the real thing.

Now if we assume that Christianity is a worldwide religion, as most Christians seem to want it to be, it has to be conceded that the nations of the west are indeed rich, compared with the developing nations. So in America and Europe and Britain, we are all rich men.

This means, that for Western Christians, to stand any chance at all of keeping out of the fire-pit, they have to give up everything and live at the very bottom stratum of society, with no possessions, no house, nothing.

How do you reconcile this very specific comment from Jesus with your (relatively) rich lifestyle?

I look at that particular quote as more of a propaganda thing. If you are rich and "well todo" it would seperate you from the group you are preaching to. If you are poor and are preaching something, you will be more likely considered in the "he's one of us" mindset and it makes it easier to convey his message. It was also an effort to seperate his teachings from that of the Jewish priests who at that time were very rich.

Do you realise just what you are saying, here, Billybob? "I look at that particular quote as more of a propaganda thing." Jesus made a very specific comment about who would fail to get into heaven. Are you actually suggesting that he was lying for effect?

And then..... Matthew 19:24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Lying, no making a point, yes. He preached about being humble, did he not? Saying that the poor needs to be humble is a moot point, since they don't have anything; however, saying that the rich need to be humble to get into heaven would get people to think. He also preached against greed. Now this sentiment is not just a Jesus thing.
This very topic is in the Ten Commandments as well. So the question you posed should be addressed to more than just Christians.

(17) You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

"Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's house..."
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

How does this answer the question posed by the OP?

Kendra is a Hottie!

Hey no inapropriate touchings in this thread please

How do you interpret that, Kevn?

No, I am interested in the Christian viewpoint. The statement of Jesus, IMO, is much more specific, much stricter and indeed, doesn't mean the same as the Commandment.

He specifically said, as I read it - if you are rich you have had it so far as heaven is concerned. There is no way you are going to get in. Now either that is true, or it is not. From my point of view, anyway.

What may seem impossible to people is not impossible with God.

Selador, see, what you're missing is that long lost passage from the Bible:

"And this book Shall be the Word of God and taken literally, all words inside are His and are His Absolute Truth... unless someone points out a contradiction or something that's uncomfortable, or doesn't fit in your mindset or way of life, then you can ignore it, or explain it away or, heck, go on, just cut it out of the Bible completely."

You remember this don'tcha?

It's like three verses after:

"And God said that it's ok to hate fags, but you can't eat seafood and you gotta lock girls away when they're on their periods.

Well, ok, He says you can have a shrimp cocktail and He GUESSES she can come out of the basement, even though she's still cramping and bloated and is in a shitty mood...

But you GOTTA make sure you hate fags, though... 'K"

Jesus wrote propaganda eh?

Where in the Bible do you see Christ suggesting homosexuals are to be shunned or hated? In fact, where do you see Christ even mention homosexuality?

AMEN

What does this have to do with the quote? I say, with nothing to back up the verse (No dead sea scrolls it was written after the scrolls were) that its questionable at best.

My opinion is off topic, not being a Christian...

But considering the Catholic Church's history in wealth acquisition, I can see how a gentle reminder of this passage as last rights were performed could persuade a feverish and delusional dying old (merchent, noble, whatever) to hand over all their worldly possessions to the church in their final hours.

It's brilliant if you ask me.

You want my honest interperation of that passage (And the ones before and after it?), Selador?

Here we go.

First of all, regaurdless of if you mean camel or rope, and even if you follow the "tiny gate" theory, the passage still means the same thing: Wealth != salvation.

Camel or rope, however, it's a hyperbolic way of saying "this cannot be done"... Jesus used hyperbole now and then, and in fact used it earlier in Mathew a couple times, such as when he says there is a "beam" or "plank", depending on translation, in someones eye, as opposed to the splinter it actually is.

So, what does it mean? Ah, the meaning is found in the next two passages:

19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Jesus's followers recognised that not everyone could follow a path of pure poverty, and Jesus agreed - what Jesus is saying in 19:26 is, no man can enter Heaven, reguardless of how rich they are. It is God (And one's faith in God) that allows one to ender heaven. Remember, according to Christian belief, no man is perfect: It is catagoricly impossible for man to be perfect and without sin. Salvation comes in spite of sin.

Talk to Pat Robertson or James Dobson, they will tell you.

where did Mickey say that?

In which case this whole discussion is questionable at best by your logic, so your little comment is completely meaningless, once again.

This is something I find rather disturbing: How people can just take bits and parts of the bible and interpret it in a way that is very different than what is plainly stated.

Must be nice to have such a mutable belief structure. Find a passage of the bible you don't agree with, cast it aside and reinterpret it to best suit your lifestyle!

Hey, feeling wicked? depraved? Homosexual? There is always the story of the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18:16 thru the end of Chapter 19). People always seem to reinterpret this particular section, especially homosexuals. A quick google of "Sodom and Gomorrah" will turn up plenty of "alternative" versions. Reinterpretations if you will.

All of you believers page thru bible upon bible until you find a version that suits your interpretation, and if you don't find it, you find some alternative SOURCE that specializes in interpreting the bible.

What a joke. You people are ALL going to hell. LOL.

Briana Dawson

BINGO

YOu have just discovered the reason why Fundies want to cut taxes and end welfare programs. They feel the people who are taxed, the Middle Class, would have more money to pay them (The Fundies) if they were not taxed.

Brilliant.

I say, what was Jesus talking about in 19:26? If he was talking about 19:24 he has just contradicted (Bad spelling) himself.

You realize how stupid that sounds? Taxes are the best way for any politician to get money, and according to you the "fundies" are in power, hence, politicians. So your clever scheme for them is that they cut taxes so that they will volentarily send in the money instead?