Why is beating children legal?

I am speaking of the USA where "spanking" and "swatting" of children is legal. If I hit another adult I have commited a crime but when I physically assault my own child it is legal.

I have heard every possible argument from parents defending their right to physically discipline their children but i have yet to hear a logical reason for them to do it. Do they expect it to improve the child's behavior? Not likely. I have yet to see a study that shows that. Do they do it to make themselves feel better? Most likely.

I was inspired to post this by a thread about child sexual abuse. Let me tell you folks, that being spanked (beaten) by your own parent is far more traumatic for the child than being molested.

Don't take my word for it. Ask any kid.

children don't process consequences in long term ways

they process it by fear of immediate pain

spanking is the deterrant for misbehaving that a chld understands

trust me, a spanking kept me in line when i didn't want to follow the rules

to respect laws and consequences at any early age is a gift that gives throughout life

now this is different than beating. if you are punishing them by spanking them, that is one thing. if you are angry, never hit your kid. schedule a time for the spanking, and make it later on after you have cooled off, and let them know their hide will be tanned later. then they have to wait for it and think about why they will be getting spanked the whole time

I, of course, didn't like being spanked, but in retrospect, I would prolly be in jail or would have injured myself severly not following directions by now if not for a basic fundamental respect for consequences, that were taught at the earliest age from spanking

Then physical violence teaches one how to act and there is no other way? I don't buy that. Most children have no idea why they are being beaten.

no!

physical violence is not what spanking is about

I am one of the biggest pacifists you will ever meet, it did not begat violence in me

spanking is not violence, it is discipline. it is immediate and a response for crossing boundries

beating is violence. spankings should be slow and deliberate, not emotional

spanking is a consequence for someone who can't relate to adult consequences or long term consequences

grounding didnt seem as bad even though i had to sit in my room for 2 weeks with no phone, tv , video games or leaving the house. just books. but it wasnt immediate. i couldnt relate to it

"go get the belt", having to go get the belt, and sit and take the spanking was a much greater deterent, and it represented the bigger picture in the long run in terms of rules and consequences to me

and that process was over in 10 mins. lesson learned, all is forgiven, we can move on unless I did it again...

Please!!!!

most children are not nearly as innocent as they pretend to be

they are mischevious and know when they are breaking a rule

sometimes, a kid might shoplift, not because he wants what he is stealing, but to get away with doing what he shouldn't

dogs don't know what they did when you rub their face in shit

kids know, often very well, what they did...

We may not have studies showing the benefits of spanking correctly (not all forms of spanking are OK), but we have plenty of evidence of what happens in a permissive society in which spanking is frowned upon. Look all around you and see bullying, aggressive children yelling at their parents when they don't get their way. They simply won't behave in public places. They climb all over restaurant furniture and yell at the top of their voices.

No other punishment for disobedience to one's parents really works; sending a child to his/her room does no good if that's where his/her toys are! Groundings (i.e. no playing outside, or no TV for a week, etc.) can affect the whole family in various ways, not just the offender. Timeouts are a laugh as they don't accomplish anything except breathing space.

If spanking is done correctly, eventually it is not required; as you have yourself a well-behaved child who will not require punishment. But far too often it is administered incorrectly and the child reacts in a negative manner and loses all respect for his/her parents.

Spanking is a dying art, because so many people are no longer willing to do it. The end result can only be the end of good behavior and therefore civilization.

(Feel free to disagree with me, btw, because I'm not providing proof of most of my assertions. This knowledge isn't my main field of study.)

thats what i'm saying

That is an unbelievably stupid statement or a sick joke.

I was spanked as a kid, as well as my five brothers.

They were much older than me, but were also a LOT more troublesome.

Whereas I got spanked for, say, throwing rocks at point blank range at moving cars, they got thwapped for BB gun wars and tossing each other on electric cow fences.

Getting swatted is an immediate negative consequence of your actions. When you're 3 years old you think in the immediate; the next five minutes. Getting told to take a time out means nothing, because you don't understand the context of your past or your present. Whereas a thwack across the butt says "hey, dumbass, don't do that."

I've seen "spank-free" households in action, and it's barely contained anarchy. Kids don't give a shit if you take away their toys, they find other things to do (like cause more trouble). If there isn't an immediately unpleasant reaction to their shenangians they'll continue doing it ebcause it's fun.

Please. Child molestation != swatting your kid for tossing the puppy down a well.

*blinks*

*rubs eyes*

Yep, still there.

*wanders away in disbelief, but now armed with the knowledge of why some kids are so misbehaved in public*

Theres a difference between beatings and spankings.

Theres a difference between abuse and discipline.

At least some of us can see that line..and don't cross it.

speaking as any kid , it's scary as hell, but It did stop me from doing things I shouldn't have again. I wasn't sexually molested but if being spanked was worse, then I think sexual molestation is blown out of proportion (I don't think it is). There is a difference between being spanked and being physically abused. It's a pretty easy distinction. The difference is partially one of magnitude, that's the easiest part. A harder one is one of context. That one is what our definitions both moral and legal can't handle all that well. And the hardest part is the one of distinction of intention. Was it done to punish, or because the adult was a sadistic bastard. It can usually be infered from the context and magnitude though so this is more a synthesis of the first two parts.

Ask any sexual abuse victim... that has to be one of the most ludicrous statements I've seen posted yet. I can understand the motivation behind your post though so I'm simply chalking it up to an impassioned moment of unclear thinking.

As for spanking children, I personally have probably had to swat my children maybe twice each in their entire lives but I wouldn't presume to tell other parents they shouldn't. I see children all the time with absolutely horrid manners, no sense of how to behave in public and no respect for authority and I blame it on the parents and a lack of discipline in the home.
My children are 19 and 14 and grew up in a very flexible household where they were allowed the freedom to make their own choices, HOWEVER when discipline was necessary, it was immediate and as much as possible related to the offense. Today the 19 year old is a college student, his hair is too long and he dresses like a bum but he is a good man with respect for women and elders. The 14 yr old certainly has more than her share of adolescent attitude but she also has good grades and was wise enough to actually look shocked when she recently heard another teenage girl swear at her mother in a store. She looked at me and whispered "wow you'd kill me".

So while nobody's kids are perfect and mine certainly aren't, clearly the few spankings and numerous painful lectures, groundings and extra chores as discipline haven't hurt them any. The point is whatever method of discipline and teaching we choose to raise our kids with, (and I mean discipline NOT abuse, big difference) we definately have to use something because if we don't we raise a society of adults with no sense of respect for boundaries or for other individuals.

When I was but a child, the funniest notions would come into my head when being spanked. Over time, I began to be a masochist, and think: "If I can withstand X number of spankings, then I'll advance to the next level." It became like a video game for me. Due to some early influential viewings of shows like The Prisoner, I became convinced that these spankings were part of an elaborate "interrogation" to make me give up secrets... secrets to what? To this day I don't know.

So spanking in my life didn't really serve as a deterrent against doing bad things. It was more of a resilience of personal character that it helped reinforce, as well as foster an imagination of finding myself in difficult situations and having to find a way out.

I do believe very highly in good manners and treating other people well. That was not derived from spanking, however, but the fact I felt I'd done enough wrong in my existence and wanted to do more right.

Oh come on, this is nonsense; disapproving of spanking doesn't mean a lack of control and politeness. My parents never laid a finger on me but I was a pretty well-behaved child. Plenty of bad parents spank children, plenty of good parents don't and I've never seen any connection in practice between the two.

There's nothing particularly good as a punishment about it either. It's no more effective in the long term than anything else, stopping pocket money, no TV, or even just evil stares, lectures and obvious disapproval. It can just as easily be ignored, oh, it's unpleasant but it's tolerable. If parents have the respect of their children, discipline can be effective, if they don't it won't, and you don't get someone's respect by hitting them, particularly if they're older.

I'd say that the only place for physical measures was really for young children who just cannot understand that it's not a game, they must NOT run across the road or put their hand in the cooker. A slap on the hand or something in that circumstance, sure. But as a regular punishment it just becomes like any other punishment if used reasonably, and can be a cover for other people to use it unreasonably, as well as teaching kids that if you think someone is doing something wrong, physical violence is an appropriate response, which can really get them into trouble.

As many others in this thread have indicated, spanking is but one form of discipline in parents' arsenals. If we as a society start to take away a parent's right and choice to punish/discipline a child in an effective and safe way, we will have some serious repercussions.

I'm curious to know which people in this thread have children. I used to be far more critical of my own parents' behavior until I had two kids of my own. Most parents are just trying to do what they think is right, and/or doing the best they can. If we continue down the path of being hyper-critical of all parenting methods, we would wind up with all children being taken away from their parents at birth and raised by the so-called "experts." I doubt that would be best for anyone, most especially the kids.

My dad was an excellent disciplinarian. And he never touched me (other than very severe foot tickling). What he did was, when I had done something he didn't approve of, he made
me think it through during this torturous (but effective) question and answer session.

(imagine my rl name is Perse, k?)
It'd go something like: "So, Perse, your mother tells me you had a fight with the neighbour today.
What happened?"
I'd respond by telling my side of the story in the movie made and directed by me. Then dad would respond
"Hm. How do you think he would have told the story of what happened?"
I'd respond by showing the story in a more fair middle ground view.
"I see. And, now, Perse, how do you think he might have felt when you (fill in offensive behaviour)"
or "Do you think that was the choice of a responsible friend?"

etc etc. OMG it was AWFUL! but WONDERFUL. He made me think about consequences for my actions, have empathy for others, etc. It was torturous to answer his questions and realize that I could make mistakes or even be a putz sometimes. He was exacting with his ability to induce shame and remorse. Awful, but very effective.

Conversely, I have a relative who, whenever his child has done anything objectionable (which the child does often: kick the cat, hit the sister, bite mom, etc) hits his kid. He hits the butt usually, sending the kid forward a few inches sometimes with the force of the swat. Always the kid's face registers a quick slight shock and the behaviour (momentarily) subsides; then the child turns around and hits those with less power (as he perceives it) because he has been taught one thing quite well: Might Makes Right.

If you resort to hitting your child you've lost it. Period.

Using physical violence simply teaches the child that it's right to solve arguments with violence. Just like so called "adults" do. There is a massive world of difference between a mindless thump (or even a slap) and using calmly restrained physical force or a careful punishment that actually teaches the lesson that needs to be learned. Only bullies and the brainless and the mentally exhausted need to hit their kids.

...
and if as a parent your relationship with your child has fallen to the level of physical violence you should seek help asap. But unfortunately people who use violence don't usually have the ability to understand they need help.

Violence breeds violence. Look around you for many perfect examples.

Beating a child is abuse. ( and it'll get you a prison sentence in my country which is a typically stupid, short termist, English thing because whats actually needed is help and guidance, not being locked up and separated from the child in most cases )

You shall never beat any... children, older, same age. any.... I know: wars are going on .. some are in the name of god some are ”we need to protect our self before something can happen”.. but I hate wars anyway...

It can of course be unlegal (as in my country) but who knows what happens behind doors..

And YES Laukosargas - great text!


/Tina

Violence is NOT an effective and safe punishment choice. It is the resort of someone at the end of their tether with no other actions available. A person who's fallen this low simply often needs some friendly help and guidance to bring them to understand how to correct a childs bad behaviour without damaging the child.

I notice a lot of people saying thay they were hit so it's ok to hit. You don't appear to understand you were damaged into that belief system by being hit in the first place.

Lord! Save me from those who would 'save the children'.

It was said best by someone a knew once: "The innocence of children is not by purity of spirit, as much as by weakness of arm"

Children are not 'emotionally scarred for life' by spankings. A spanking is transitory, does not have any real lasting effect, and tends to be forgotten quickly enough to make it ALMOST useless.

The truth is, I considered the 'explain and reason' method... Until I realized she didn't care... At all... Ever...

Then I tanned her hide for her once and she calmed down and found something to do that did not involve running into the street to get hit by a car. Whoops. That changes it a bit, doesn't it? Spanking to deter suicidal behavior? That changes EVERYTHING!

No. It doesn't. When I spank my daughter, I don't do it because she inconveninced me, because she annoyed me, or even because she did something wrong. I do it to deter behavior that would get her into trouble if I was not there at the moment to get her out. I ethen also explain WHY she got spanked, and why the spanking was only a taste of what she would get if she jumped in front of another car.

The spanking focuses her attention, if just for a moment.

As to your statments of equating 'beating' with 'spanking' So glad you guys have decided your enlightened ways are better, and more effective. Considering the way most of the kids from such 'enlightend' parents act, I HAVE considered beating the parent. I mean, it's not like you can blame the kid for throwing paint on your new cloths for a laugh...

And as for my father spanking me being like being molested by someone? Not even close... Draw your own conclusions and consider the fact that perhaps that statment is nothing more than excessive rhetoric generated to support a rather poor argument.

And Persephone, that IS a great way to deal with a situation. When used, it can have lasting effect. The problem is, sometimes they just don't care. Not every child has the same empathy level about the same things.

<shakes head> I swear, you can't win: Either that want your to reign in you child, or they want you to do it thier way, regardless of how well it works. It's fine, though... I'm used to everyone I meet thinking that their way is the only way.

<wanders away to find something interesting to look at, since this thread is about as useful as the abortion and death sentence threads: Lots of growling, nothing to get done>

If you beat your daughter you need help.

Speaking as an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of one of my grandmother's boarders (my grandmother was a psych aide at Pilgrim State Mental Hosptial in the 50's and 60's and took in psychiatric day patients as boarders) as well as the recipient of more than one spanking at the hands of my parents, I can tell you that sexual molestation is far more traumatic than being spanked. And my father went far beyond spanking, at times beating my sister and I with a belt.

When I became a mother, I was determined that my daughter would never be a victim of sexual abuse and as far as I know (she's 12 now), she never has been. However, while I wouldn't "beat" her as a punishment, I didn't have a problem with an occasional spanking. I never needed to spank after she was around 6 or 7 because she was pretty well behaved by then. She isn't perfect, but it makes me feel like I've done a good job as a mom when people go out of their way to tell me that my child is a pleasure to have around.

That quote opens a whole can of worms that are not worth opening. And like I said, your opinions are set in stone, and like any subject zelot, it would all come down to me either agreeing with you, or ignoring you.

Bye now!