Student expelled for being gay

I seem to recall clashing on this once before with you, Chip, but I'm never one to stay silent I guess...

Religion, IE, a belief, is not, per say, a choice. I chould choose not to practice my religion, or I could choose to go through the motions of practicing a religion if I were not religious, but the actual belief is not a choice. I could no more choose to stop holding the belief I do than I could choose to stop finding men attractive.

If you don't believe me, try it. Try believing absolutely in God for five minutes. Not saying you believe in God, or not going to church - believing, right down in the very root of your mind, that God exists.

Can you do it?



Well, you have a right to be a racist. You just don't have a right to ACT on those beliefs in most cases.

...with public money.

No, I wasn't describing you. I was talking about the person in the article that Kevn posted. I actually agree with your argument in the technical sense, despite the fact that I think Christian views on homosexuality are indefensible. I also agree that if the school took tax dollars they're wrong legally in addition to be wrong morally.

Just a reminder - I recognize this is a very high-emotion topic of discussion, but I'd like to remind everyone to please do not cross the line into personal attacks and insults while having these heated discussions.

No problem. guess I misinterpeted it. (this was edited)

We obviously disagree on most everything afer "despite the fact" (above).

It's all about money for you? Here's $1L. Feel better?

As repugnant as racism is, I wouldn't dare suggest one doesn't have a right to be racist. I happen to believe everyone deserves the right to believe as they will, and to say what they think. But that's just my liberal side talking...

Intellectually, I think that she does have a right to be intellectually racist.

However, that's not what I interpreted her point as being. She's arguing that she's a victim of reverse discrimination due to special treatment of others.

Hey, its their sim, they can harrass whomever they want.



-Ghoti

Can I have a five hundred thousand USD of taxpayer money to set up a gay sex club?

Couch your proposal in some sort of "organized religion" intermixed with education and there's a chance some legislator can work a deal for you into some state law somewhere.

But I already said I won't play the legal funding game on this issue.

All I can offer is the $1L. But I'm not inworld so you'll have to trust that I am good for it.

Actually you'd be more likely to succeed in this if you work in a scientific study of the nostril sizes of aroused prairie dogs.

This is a doubleplus good term. I can only assume it means the same as "unbiased treatment"? Wouldn't that be the reverse of discrimination?

Uh. Nooooo.

It is generally considered to be defined as socially "approved" discrimination - generally justified as a means to compensate for previous wrongs. In this case, not being treated equally because consideration of another's race is deemed important while consideration her own individual concerns is not.... that's the essence of the "discrimination in reverse" that seems to be being claimed.

If you haven't heard the term before... where have YOU been?

If you have, can I have my leg back?

You've lost, Picabo. We've beaten you down with a deluge of counter-arguments, and you're down to trying to squabble over the definition of "reverse discrimination".

Answer our posts that you've ignored, leave quietly, or prepare to be seen by everyone as a common troll.

It's your choice.

First, I am not your "bud." What, exactly, prevents either of us from drawing on similar or related events, issues or anecdotes pertaining to the topic at hand? Regarding the latter, my policy has always been to err on the side of the accused and/or the powerless (i.e., the student in this case). I will give the student the benefit of the doubt until more information is provided.

Huh? I have such a hard time following your logic. Why not just plainly state your point? And when did I ever say that a private school (or a public one, for that matter) doesn't have the right (within specifically limited bounds) to expel anyone? I think you're the one skipping over valid points, as I said that the definition of "lewd" behavior was up for debate, and that there was no real evidence to suggest that Mr. Johnson was anything other than an unhappy gay student.

Laying it on a little thick, aren't we? I don't understand? Gimme a break. I lived it for more than 25 years, so don't you dare presume to know my level of understanding. I can agree that any university has limited powers by which to revoke a student's enrollment. I don't think this case comes close to qualifying. Gay sex on campus? Sure, I'd buy it (even though I may still not like it). Posting on MySpace? Not a chance.

OK, Baptists don't have synods, they have "conventions." I was raised Southern Baptist and I attended a Baptist-affiliated University. The largest non-Catholic denomination in the US is the S. Baptist convention - Over 3 million members in my home state, alone. It is indisputable that Southern Baptist doctrinal statements take odds with homosexuality. Sure, individual adherents may differ in their views, but just like a political party's platform, this doctrinal position is fervently preached from the highest echelons of Southern Baptist leadership, and members are pretty much expected to tow the line.

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_sbc.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_sbc.htm

I pretty much agree with you there as long as we're differentiating between thoughts and actions. We can't legislate opinion and we should never try, but discriminatory actions are legislated (and should be).

Uh. Nooooo.

I need it for my leg collection.

And just because the term is in common use doesnt mean it isn't stupid. Just call it discrimination and avoid oxymorons. If anyone gives you grief about it, explain yourself in clearly.

Well it seems to be if you go to a baptist school and see a code of conduct like the one cumberlands has. And then you post that you want to be kicked out, and indicate that you are gay in violation of the schools standards, it should not be a suprise that you get kicked out.

the school stated its policy and has taken a draconian approach to enforcement. But I fail to see the violation of the students rights.

I would question why he chose cumberlands to begin with. I would not have.

The sadder commentary is that a persons sexual activities, which should be a bastion of personal privacy, are standard of conduct for a student at a universtity of higher education. But then I am not a christian, so the concept is alien to me.

I hope this guy finds a better school.

A new policy was put into effect AFTER he enrolled, not before. Looks to me like they changed things AFTER they found he was gay. How Christian of them....

Now I get it. Being homosexual is the same thing as promoting homosexuality. The same as a person born white is promoting whiteness or a person born blind is promoting blindness.

I doubt if there are many converts.....

Intolerance of moral statements? What on earth does that mean?

By "some future date" do you mean now? Discrimination against gay people is legal in many states. It's enshrined in federal law. And if that weren't enough, there are bigots out there trying to put it in the US Constitution. Hell, in 49 of the 50 states gay people are treated as second class citizens.

Has anybody heard about "straight bashing" or "Christian bashing" or "Caucasian bashing"? But we all know what "fag bashing" is, don't we? For us, it's not about being "offended," it's about our safety, our security and our rights.

I didn't say anything about Christian Conservatives. I said you are equating Christian with Conservative. This is where you did it:



There are moderate and liberal Christians who support the "Liberal Tolerance" you seem to disdain. And, as I said before, that spirit of tolerance is a direct descendant of Christian teaching.