Calling for a Boycott of the fundamentalist State of South Dakota
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-20-2006 13:54
From: Kendra Bancroft There are people who live "Gorean" lifestyles in real life and who ID as strongly with it as any other "lifestyle" choice there is.
Just sayin' Magnums little paperdolls roleplaying slavery and BDSM is not the same as some gay man getting the shit kicked out of him in the sticks. Questioning his fake lifestyle and calling it bullshit is not a hate crime. Lets not make light of serious issues by comparing it to the plights of rich people in a leisure enviroment that are angry most people think they are dumbasses. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-20-2006 13:59
From: Reitsuki Kojima I'm actually not sure how Scientology counts as a religion... It doesn't really have a 'divine' component per say. Um, then how do you explain Kirstie Alley? 
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-20-2006 14:03
From: Cristiano Midnight Um, then how do you explain Kirstie Alley?  ?
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-20-2006 14:48
Just a gentle reminder please to keep the thread on-topic, hopefully some productive discussion will come out of this.  |
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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03-20-2006 16:16
My favorite Scientology divinity is Jenna Elfman, but then what do I know?  (Well, of the star-variety. The most extraordinary girl I ever met is still teaching down at the local church) *sigh* ---- Edit: Just for you, Torley, back on topic- I'm agin' it. |
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Toni Bentham
M2 Fashion Editor
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 560
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03-20-2006 17:10
From: Cristiano Midnight It's ok, there hasn't been any really good back and forth lately, and at least you are both entertaining to read. Well, if I ended up adding some amusement to someone's day, I did good work. pats self on backFrom: Reitsuki Kojima I'm actually not sure how Scientology counts as a religion... It doesn't really have a 'divine' component per say. Gonna have to totally second that. Wait, if Reitsuki and I agree, is the thread closed? ::back on topic for Torley::Boo, hiss, South Dakota, and that Dakota who likes to pretend to act. I'm officially allowing North Dakota back into my life. After a long, frank discussion, and some "alone" time, we've worked out our issues and can at least be friends.
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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03-21-2006 03:35
From: Magnum Serpentine Post reported to the Lindens as an attack on a life style and belief system. In other words, Hate. O snap! I better leave those Trekkies..I mean Trekkers..alone! -Kiamat Dusk ...live long and prosper...
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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03-21-2006 03:40
From: Kendra Bancroft Do not believe this sleen's lies, Magnum. On Earth we call that object a fetus. So...the "object" stops "remind[ing] her of the evil rapist" after it's born? -Kiamat Dusk PS: AR'd for likening me to a fictional creature. 
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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03-21-2006 03:42
From: Nolan Nash While the Gorean lifestyle is certainly not for me, I am glad I can seperate role-play from real life.
I kill humans in World of Warcraft. Does that somehow make me a killer in real life too? You also don't bring your WoW persona to bear in a discussion thread about boycotting a state for it's abortion laws. -Kiamat Dusk
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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03-21-2006 03:50
From: Kendra Bancroft There are people who live "Gorean" lifestyles in real life and who ID as strongly with it as any other "lifestyle" choice there is.
Just sayin' I know at least two Gorean lifestylers IRL. Both of them would laugh at you if you tried to speak Gorean to them because, as they put it, "that's a made up language from a book and this is real life." So if they're going to bring their Goreanisms into this discussion, the fictional Gorean practices become valid talking points. -Kiamat Dusk
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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03-21-2006 03:53
From: Torley Linden Just a gentle reminder please to keep the thread on-topic, hopefully some productive discussion will come out of this. When did Jeska start wearing grean and...that...uhh...pinkish purplish color... ? -Kiamat Dusk
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-21-2006 04:07
From: Eboni Khan Magnums little paperdolls roleplaying slavery and BDSM is not the same as some gay man getting the shit kicked out of him in the sticks. Questioning his fake lifestyle and calling it bullshit is not a hate crime. Lets not make light of serious issues by comparing it to the plights of rich people in a leisure enviroment that are angry most people think they are dumbasses. Would beating up someone because they have a fetish be considered a "hate-crime"? Though many in the BDSM community look cross-eyed at people who engage in Gorean roleplay it's no stranger than RL furries or shoe fetishists or crossdressers. People STILL make light of transsexuals getting KILLED for fuck's sake. It's not even considered bad manners to make fun of TVs and TSs on television or movies. Don't preach to me about making "light of serious issues". The line you're drawing, yourself, is a dangerous line. The minute you decide someone is a dumbass for pursuing a "lifestyle choice" you are starting down a the road of hate and intolerance. That's exactly the attitude that causes "hate crimes". |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-21-2006 04:11
From: Kiamat Dusk I know at least two Gorean lifestylers IRL. Both of them would laugh at you if you tried to speak Gorean to them because, as they put it, "that's a made up language from a book and this is real life."
So if they're going to bring their Goreanisms into this discussion, the fictional Gorean practices become valid talking points.
-Kiamat Dusk So this would be your "Some of my best friends are Gorean" defense? How would your Gorean buddies feel if someone accused them of being rapists? That's the point I was making. |
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-21-2006 04:44
From: Kendra Bancroft
Don't preach to me about making "light of serious issues". The line you're drawing, yourself, is a dangerous line. The minute you decide someone is a dumbass for pursuing a "lifestyle choice" you are starting down a the road of hate and intolerance.
That's exactly the attitude that causes "hate crimes".
Kendra, SL is not real. Talking about Magnums little rapist, slavery lifestyle in SL is not a hate crime. He can't handle anyone being judgemental about it and is grasping at straws. Again, SL is not, it is a fake enviroment for rich people to play in. If you want to believe for a second that dissing Magnums bullshit play world and asking him how he can uphold womens right while at the same time playing slave master, go right ahead. |
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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03-21-2006 05:14
From: Kendra Bancroft Would beating up someone because they have a fetish be considered a "hate-crime"?
Though many in the BDSM community look cross-eyed at people who engage in Gorean roleplay it's no stranger than RL furries or shoe fetishists or crossdressers.
People STILL make light of transsexuals getting KILLED for fuck's sake. It's not even considered bad manners to make fun of TVs and TSs on television or movies.
Don't preach to me about making "light of serious issues". The line you're drawing, yourself, is a dangerous line. The minute you decide someone is a dumbass for pursuing a "lifestyle choice" you are starting down a the road of hate and intolerance.
That's exactly the attitude that causes "hate crimes". Well said Kendra, and I'd like to add just because someone follows a lifestyle in second life that they maybe dont follow in real life (possibly due to fear of assault or censure) doesnt necessarily make it "fake", "bullshit", or whatever other term Eboni would like to throw at it. And Eboni, comparing gorean lifestylers to historical slavery is nonsense, slaves in this sense can walk anytime without reprecussion, as its a consensual arrangement.. unlike real slavery, and why single Gor out, as many D/s styles involve a master/slave relationship. For the record, I'm not Gorean, or D/s, I just suport peoples right to their lifestyle choices.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 05:16
From: Kendra Bancroft Would beating up someone because they have a fetish be considered a "hate-crime"?
Though many in the BDSM community look cross-eyed at people who engage in Gorean roleplay it's no stranger than RL furries or shoe fetishists or crossdressers.
People STILL make light of transsexuals getting KILLED for fuck's sake. It's not even considered bad manners to make fun of TVs and TSs on television or movies.
Don't preach to me about making "light of serious issues". The line you're drawing, yourself, is a dangerous line. The minute you decide someone is a dumbass for pursuing a "lifestyle choice" you are starting down a the road of hate and intolerance.
That's exactly the attitude that causes "hate crimes". Damnit Kendra, now you made me have to defend Kiamat, which I hate doing, but here goes. This is what he said to Magnum: From: Kiamat Dusk From: Kiamat Dusk Forgetting the whole MAP/rape kit thing for a second...it's nice to see the Goreans coming out strong in earth politics. You guys could settle this whole thing if you'd just send us some of that potion that you give your slaves and Free Women to keep them from getting knocked up.
Oh, and that "object" you keep referring to-I'm not sure what the Gorean word for it is-but here on earth we call it an innocent child. I know, I know, it's easier to hate when you objectify and dehumanize, but it's true.
Speaking of rape...tell me again what you Goreans do to our earth women after you've kidnapped them?
-Kiamat Dusk Someone who practices a "lifestyle" that promotes the rape and degradation of women certainly can be questioned on those activities and beliefs. To call what Kiamat said as "hate" against Magnum is patently ridiculous. I am glad you have taken this now to a scenario on the level of Magnum being physically beaten up in RL for his "lifestyle choice", but that is exactly the type of hyperbole we are talking about. Kiamat's questions of Magnum are perfectly valid. Claiming it somehow rises to the level of "hate" or a hate crime is the dangerous line to cross, because it diminishes the validity of such things - including the very situation you described. Magnum can role play whatever he wants, in SL and in RL - it doesn't mean he or anyone else is immune to criticism for their statements and choices.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 05:23
From: Lucifer Baphomet Well said Kendra, and I'd like to add just because someone follows a lifestyle in second life that they maybe dont follow in real life (possibly due to fear of assault or censure) doesnt necessarily make it "fake", "bullshit", or whatever other term Eboni would like to throw at it. And Eboni, comparing gorean lifestylers to historical slavery is nonsense, slaves in this sense can walk anytime without reprecussion, as its a consensual arrangement.. unlike real slavery, and why single Gor out, as many D/s styles involve a master/slave relationship.
For the record, I'm not Gorean, or D/s, I just suport peoples right to their lifestyle choices. Just as many women get into the sex trade industry out of "free choice", but actually do so out of emotional and sexual trauma, the same goes for women being degraded in this lifestyle of "free choice". The author of the Gor novels is nothing more than a misogynist. What separates Gor from other BDSM lifestyles is the sheer amount of violence and degradation focused on women alone. Yes, it's all voluntary, and as I said, more power to someone who wants to be involved. It doesn't mean that it can't ever be criticized or questioned, and it should be. It can have dangerous psychological effects on the women involved, especially in RL. As far as it being fake, it is - it is role playing based upon fictional novels. It is fake in the way Star Trek, Vampire: the Masquerade, Dungeons and Dragons, and any other fantasy environment all are. Just because people run around practicing it in RL doesn't make it real.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-21-2006 05:46
Is it true that South Dakota is positioned directly opposite Earth in the solar system?
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
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03-21-2006 05:51
From: Nolan Nash Is it true that South Dakota is positioned directly opposite Earth in the solar system? No. Its in Earths trailing trojan point.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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03-21-2006 05:57
From: Cristiano Midnight It is fake in the way Star Trek, Vampire: the Masquerade, Dungeons and Dragons, and any other fantasy environment all are. Just because people run around practicing it in RL doesn't make it real.  ... but but I've been Brujah Kindred for years. Whaddayamean its not real?! Have I just been throwing my life away?! (Not to mention those of all my victims) On a slightly more ontopic note (slightly) I will gladly lend my support to boycotting South Dakota on the grounds I've never so much as looked at the place on Google Earth, let alone been there, and have no intention of ever doing so. So count me in! |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-21-2006 05:59
From: Eboni Khan Kendra,
SL is not real. Talking about Magnums little rapist, slavery lifestyle in SL is not a hate crime. He can't handle anyone being judgemental about it and is grasping at straws. Again, SL is not, it is a fake enviroment for rich people to play in. If you want to believe for a second that dissing Magnums bullshit play world and asking him how he can uphold womens right while at the same time playing slave master, go right ahead. I wasn't talking about SL though. I made it quite clear I was talking about people who engage in RL Gorean roleplay. |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-21-2006 06:03
From: Cristiano Midnight Just as many women get into the sex trade industry out of "free choice", but actually do so out of emotional and sexual trauma, the same goes for women being degraded in this lifestyle of "free choice". The author of the Gor novels is nothing more than a misogynist. What separates Gor from other BDSM lifestyles is the sheer amount of violence and degradation focused on women alone. Yes, it's all voluntary, and as I said, more power to someone who wants to be involved. It doesn't mean that it can't ever be criticized or questioned, and it should be. It can have dangerous psychological effects on the women involved, especially in RL.
As far as it being fake, it is - it is role playing based upon fictional novels. It is fake in the way Star Trek, Vampire: the Masquerade, Dungeons and Dragons, and any other fantasy environment all are. Just because people run around practicing it in RL doesn't make it real. Tell that to Scientologists. |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-21-2006 06:06
From: Cristiano Midnight Damnit Kendra, now you made me have to defend Kiamat, which I hate doing, but here goes. This is what he said to Magnum:
Someone who practices a "lifestyle" that promotes the rape and degradation of women certainly can be questioned on those activities and beliefs.. Except that lifestyle Goreans have very many Free Women and Male Slaves. The Gorean sect of the BDSM community isn't that different from other BDSM communities except that it is somewhat colored by those horrible John Norman novels. It's a fetish to them -- no more harmful than playing Naughty Nurse and Sissy Doctor (which by the way is a lot of fun) |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-21-2006 06:14
From: Lucifer Baphomet No. Its in Earths trailing trojan point. Ahhhh! I see it now!  Wouldn't trojan point one be "L1" which is directly opposite the earth in the diagram? I read one of the Gor books at the behest of some friends years ago, and I thought that was the explanation given for why we couldn't see Gor from Earth. I may be mistaken, that was 1985 and my brain was beset by chemicals, so reading a really bad pulp fiction book wasn't the only issue I had... 
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
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03-21-2006 06:14
From: Cristiano Midnight Just as many women get into the sex trade industry out of "free choice". You just watch out. Now that SL has "Forced Midnight" I'm gonna collar you |
