This worries me ... discuss

Eh, maybe it's just me ...

I have not been opposed to the peer moderators idea but I really think this will discourage people reporting posts and I can't help but feel this is violates my personal privacy. Are moderators under a confidentiality contract? And aren't there multiple mods per forum?

What's happened is a classic example of LL's lack of organisation. They didn't check properly that the forum software provided exactly the tools they required to give ResMods only the permissions they wanted them to have. So, after putting it into practice, they've realised they can't limit the permissions as they'd wish to. Now they've had to give them this new permission and, in the process, pretty much scrapped any privacy on forum AR's which, in turn, erodes our in-world privacy. For quite a while now they've been treating the forums and in-world as one, in which case ARs on the forum should only be read by Lindens as per the in-world AR reports. Otherwise there is no privacy.

As many people will miss this particular "change" to the ResMod program, and many will not be aware of it going forward, there is the distinct possibility that somebody who has AR'd a person in-world, AR's a post of theirs on the forum and includes information on an in-world AR along with it. Where's their privacy policy left then? Erm, in tatters. Simply because they weren't organised enough to check things out correctly in the first place. Gotta love how they'll bend their principles. Maybe they don't even realise this, that wouldn't entirely suprise me. It all feels kind of amateurish at times here.

So, in conclusion, I refer the ladies and gentleman to my arse and elbow comment made on an earlier thread.

as a ResMod, i can tell you this is a bit of a wriggly situation.

on one hand, i like being able to personally contact someone and let them know that matters are being taken into consideration and let them know what my thoughts are as to why i am looking into something.

on the other hand, i see where this could possibly give pause to feeling secure when using the AR system. i also see where it could be abused by ResMods either during or after their 2-week (or longer) term.

i would like to hear more resis' thoughts on this topic. it's a precarious topic and i believe the only way to know what to do is to get everybodies feelings on this.

excellent post, Magdalene. thank you for making a very lucid post about it.

This bears repeating. Over and over.

I usually receive more AR's than I give - so doesn't bother me all that much - and anyone who doesn't think I'm a asshole hasn't been in world long enough.

Well we knew we had no privacy and I guess now it is crystal clear.


Are the Res Mods under a NDA?



I don't want Pendari knowing that I report all of Cristiano's threads as inflamatory. She might tell him I am the person doing it.

Privacy in SL is way overrated. I certainly want to control who can connect Introvert with my real life identity, but who the hell is Introvert such that Cybin should not know that I AR every single damn post that Siggy makes just to irritate Siggy?

Does Introvert have privacy rights worth talking about? For years LL has said so, but that doesn't make it necessarily true. Introvert is just a collection of pixels. Furthermore, picking on Cybin because he jumped in here and I have high regard for his character, knowing that Introvert has a forum vendetta against Siggy and using that information for anything outside his ResMod duties can be completely segregated by a good moderator.

In real life I've had physicians whom I became friends with. They know things about me that would be wholly inappropriate for cocktail conversation. It isn't ethical requirements that keep them from violating that confidence, it is mere politeness and discretion. And if Cybin were to use his knowledge for evil instead of good, well, that's partly my own damn fault now, isn't it?

Oh, and Siggy, your mother sews socks that smell!

I don't think (for me) that it's so much that resmods would know, it's just that a resmod may go in-world and tell others about it, and cause more fallout as one possible result. Mentors and LiveHelp aren't links in the AR chain in-world, so I am of the mind that ResMods shouldn't be on the forums.

Consistency is important, as Moopf pointed out.

hehe.. Well, I wouldn't do that. But yes in a way there are NDA rules in place for ResMods. And if we abuse our privilages we will be moved from ResMod position and be disciplined. So there are rules in place to try and prevent us from doing something like you suggest.

I will say that the main reason it is good for us to know who is reporting a post is because of the fact that if we *didn't* know, then one person could abuse report a single post 15 times and make it look like the reports were coming from several different people instead of just the one. There would be too much potential for someone to abuse the abuse report function due to a personal grudge or opinion.

However, if every account could be assigned a number, and that number is what was seen instead of a name, we could still verify if the reports were coming from several different people or just one. I just have no idea if this possible.

I'm going to bring this concern up in the thread we have going in the ResMod forum that deals with resident concerns about ResMods.

I've answered part of this here.

*waves* :link:

I could also argue that it is important not to know who reported the post as the post can then be read by the mod without having to think about the fact that person A, who AR'd, has long had an issue with person B, who made the post. Additionally, since it shouldn't really matter how many people AR'd the post as to what is done with it, then it isn't important to know that the 15 AR's are unique individuals.

It is a triffle annoying to see each new SL thing sorted out on the fly, seemingly with little impact analysis beforehand.

Consistency does not live here, please stop calling for her!

Any ResMod who would do that doesn't make for a very good ResMod then. And thankfully there are enough *different* ResMods that even if one would not take action, another would.



In certain situations, it can make a difference. Not everything is 100% black and white. Even though that would make things easier!



I understand what you are saying, and I know your annoyance goes beyond the ResMod issue. But as far as the ResMod issue does go, I hope we current batch can help make improvements on the system for the future.

No it isn't just you. I read that lastnight and wasn't happy about it either. No matter how careful one is, it will always be human nature to "talk to those you work with." Eboni is spot on. Even with people that are by their own past example to show trust worthiness, a slip will occur inworld, in IM or IRC. *Pathfinder's famous faux paux anyone?*

If this is such a burden to the overworked Jeska, then I suggest they take applicants and hire another "torley" to help full time with this forum. It won't stop the risk that our privacy will be breeched, but at least when a post is reported it goes to an official Linden.

I for one won't bother reporting posts now. Not when the mod du jour changes up ever 2 weeks. Anyone on the LL side of the table take into consideration that one can not establish trust unless one works a few months with folks? Two weeks is hardly long enough to decide if someone IS trustworthy to handle such an increase in responsibility.

my $ 1L.

Oof. Ya, I have to echo the concern here.

The resmod's NDA is not enough to make me comfortable with using the AR feature if resident moderators can see it. The punishment of losing resmod privileges may not be a deterrent to resmods who were selected but weren't really interested in the job to begin with!!

Also, resmods could publish this AR information on third party sites with impunity since third party sites are not subject to Linden jurisdiction. One may think the resmods could be made an exception to this rule, but remember the justification behind not enforcing TOS on third party sites is the inability to positively verify the perp's identity outside of SL.

It's not unthinkable that a resmod in good standing could eventually become bitter with the system, SL in general, or certain players. After weeks of being rotated back into the pool for good service (all the while, receiving the AR e-mails) this disgruntled resmod could end his service with a bang by publishing all the ARs on his blog.

When the Lindens go to dicipline a user for publishing ARs on a third party site, they would have to either prove that site belongs to the resmod (which is largely impossible) or that the blog is "generally accepted to be the actual user" which then opens the door to a whole lot of other third party TOS violations.

From this point until ARs once again become private Linden matters, all forum residents should be aware of the volatility of their AR privacy!

Rather than a tiny number of long-term professional Lindens (who wish to keep their jobs!) looking at your ARs, we now have a large number of temporary resident moderators viewing this information. It will take just one slip-up before your abuse reporting history becomes public record. That's good to know!

I really don't see what the problem is.

Of course the resmods will have to keep quiet about information they get in their hidden sub forum. Just like they have to when modding on any other forums with significant traffic. Disclosing privacy information usually leads to being kicked out of the mod group, or even perm ban if the offence is gross enough.

The system of vB can easily be set up to NOT send emails of ARs, but that kinda defeats the purpose of having resmods. They must be able to act quickly to limit damage. It's pretty hard to act if you don't get notifications.

Resmods are not a problem, it is a solution. Give them time to get some experience (both Jeska and the mod team), and things will be just fine.

Howdy,

I'm curious why people feel this is a "violation of privacy" in any way. The reported post email has the *SL* name of the person reporting the post, NOT the reporter's *RL* name.

The ResMods are here to help, and to do that they ideally need to be able to contact the person reporting the post via a PM on the forums if they need additional information or if the ResMod wants to let the Resident know that the post was taken care of.

We thought a lot about this before we implemented it, with the goal being a simple system that helps both Residents reporting posts and ResMods working to help Residents deal with bad posts.

Take care,
-Pathfinder

I would not have expected that I'd have this reaction but I do. Thanks for bringing it up, I wouldn't have admitted it otherwise.

15 moderators x 2 weeks x 26 = 390 moderators per year.

Your right, Nolan, once was obviously not enough.

Based on this analysis, why does LL not reveal the *SL* name in relation to violations? It's not their *RL* name after all so what's the problem?

I'm not concerned about the disclosure of personal information (my RL name, etc.)

However Pathfinder, if I asked you to make all the Abuse Reporting records public, I'm sure you could write numerous paragraphs as to why that would be a bad idea. Now keep those reasons in mind while considering this:

1. Rather than a salaried professional Linden looking at the AR records, we now have a group of temporary moderators who are residents.

2. The punishment for disclosing the Abuse reporting information is the loss of resmod status.

3. Some of these moderators selected never wanted/asked for resmod status (ok... so not much of a deterrent)

4. Even if more severe punishments can be delt to offending resmods, proving which resmod leaked the info would be near impossible.

5. If the information is published on third party blogs, the resmod is untouchable (if Lindens make an exception and punish the resmod for third party infractions, you will be opening a BIG door.)

6. As Margaret brilliantly put it, 15 moderators x 2 weeks x 26 = 390 moderators per year.

7. EDIT: JUST TO PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE...Take a look at my profile and see who my partner is. While Lindens are held to strict codes of conduct, do you think residents who are close friends would ever do anything so irresponsible as share passwords and accounts? NO NO NO. Nevermind. Unthinkable!


AR leaks are an inevitability. Every resident will have to make their own personal judgement about using the AR feature. I, however, will abstain until AR reporting is once again a Linden-only matter.

Pendari and Path;

I don't think it's a matter of what the good res mods would do but what the not so good res mods would do. As we move twords a more marketed community I have concerns that some will abuse these powers for their own agendas. Be it monatary or otherwise. I understand what Eboni is saying and I too share these same concerns. In the end we can suspect that information was given to another user but if we have no real substancial proof then its just a matter of he said she said. Trust goes a long way. I personaly think that AV names should be excluded as they could taint the outcome of the action against the resident. This could be in the favor of the Avatar/subscriber also.

Either way it doesn't sit well with me and I am going to be especialy careful of what I say and how I say it in the forums. To me that feels like I'm walking on eggshells.

With all of those choices given, I would prefer that Avatar names be excluded when information is given to res mods on any post in question/up for review/action taken.

Cat

Are judgements rendered based on a TOS violation or because it's been voted upon by the "people"? What difference does it make how many people push the button on it? It is either a violation or it isn't, right? Does who makes the report or the number of reports a post is given play a significant factor in the determination?

Pathfinder, where I agree with you that no real life info is being passed on, the fact is, our forum name IS our inworld name. Many people here have had situations spread inworld from conflicts in the forum. At one time, a fuss in the forum would send an army of friends and alts to negatively rate people in world. That has lead to AR reports inworld not to mentioned damaged reputations. That abuse contributed to LL's change in direction about inworld ratings.

See what I'm getting at? You of all people should know that one mistake in judgement in a third party chat program, with people you were comfortable with ... and I believe in that case it was still a SL name that was mentioned and not a real life name ... can cause extreme embarassment to LL as well as the subsequent uproar that will no doubt occur.

Now, I doubt seriously that the resident mods will go about gossiping about who is ARing who's posts and why, but.. it only takes one time to the right ear.

Sorry, maybe others are okay with knowing a non linden will be reading their AR reports, but I personally am not comfortable with that situation, and such, have no interest in helping you all identify the bad posts. I'll save that for those that have the Kevlar forum reputations.

This is a really interesting point. Many forum critics have accuse others of "gang abuse reporting." I have always considered this nonsense as it was my opinion that the AR system only served to ask the lindens to examine a potential abuse.

1000 Abuse Reports shouldn't transform acceptable behavior into a violation if it isn't a violation.

I am hoping I am right. If Abuse reporting actually *IS* a voting process, then the system needs to be overhauled, or the resmods better trained.

I'm not sure which of these two are my favorite. Maybe you should start a poll!

Me, too. Does it effect your willingness to participate in the forums overall? I've been feeling a bit uncertain about it these days.

Btw, Happy Rezday!

(You have extinguised any hope of having your fic card reinstated. )