PvP Abuse Reports No Longer Possible

From this thread in Second Life Answers, it appears that PvP reports are going away for the following reasons:
(This will take effect with the release of 1.10.5, due out later today.)

I am confused. A new system is "in the works," Torley says. "In the works" implies "not done yet and most certainly not ready for release, let alone present in 1.10.5." So now, the only thing that kept pushguns/orbiters in check - desire to avoid punishment for using them - is being removed, and the replacement system will not be in place for an unspecified amount of time.

For the sake of anyone who doesn't know, this means people will be able to pushgun and orbit you, and you will not be able to report them. I suppose you could write [email]abuse@secondlife.com[/email], but I can almost guarantee that they will not believe you, since there will be no corroborating evidence.

Now would be a good time to get a non-physical mover (an object that you sit on, and which moves around nonphysically based on your control inputs, so that you can move around in a mostly normal way without being susceptible to push.) Several shields come with these and I've seen one or two freebies floating around.

On a related note, I would like to take this opportunity to pimp a proposal that would allow avatars to opt themselves out of susceptibility to pushguns and orbiters.

This action is on par with the open registration.

LL Think about what you're doing.

If the currnent PvP Reporting system doesn't work as you need it to, fix it or replace it. DO NOT JUST REMOVE IT!!!

You are putting a loaded weapon into griefer's hands, and the flood gates were opened to griefers who have already swarmed into SL. Haven't you figured out that all those "Flase reports" are done by two types of people? 1) New residents who don't know any better because of a lack of communication on how the system works, and 2) By griefers themselves who abuse systems to get them change to aid themselves.

With no PvP Reporting at all, LL is opening SL to become a shooting gallery. Forcing Residents to use non-phys to travel to avoid it and damning new residents who can't afford such, or don't know about such to the whim of griefers.

Is it so hard to simply allow an avie the choice to be pushed? As has been said in other posts, if you allow a resident to select teh option to "Disallow Push" then 75% of griefing as we know it goes out the door.

The chaos you are about to unlease with the PvP Report removal is going to be epic. You are going to completely enrage the longtime residents with this folly and lack of foresight. Plus you are going to set SL up to be a -very- bad experiance to all those new residents you just opened the doors for with open registration. I highly doubt many of them will be buying Premium accounts to buy land whne they get bombarded on a daily basis. Long time residents are already leaving SL due to the increased griefing in SL. Don't believe me? Stop looking at your inworld numbers and read the formus.

This is a bad decision. Period. For the residents, for the company, and for the future of LL.

~Jessy

I have had a long talk with two Lindens about this last night. One of them was very short and not really encouraging in his answers, the other much more open and useful. The information I got is as follows:

- PvP abuse was removed, because people kept reporting bumps and accidents.

- You still can file an AR if you have been pushed by scripts or blasted out of a sim, even though you might not know who did it. According to the Linden, they have log files, where the actions of people are recorded and can be checked against. So if your AR says: "Have been pushed out of Waterhead Sim by a package of C4" they can trace it back to the person who put down the bomb. They have been doing so for ARs anyway, to check, if your report has been valid.

- According to the first Linden "perhaps" we might see better AR tools in the future. He refused to go into detail, though, but Torley said a word or two on this, too.

So I think, even without PvP you can still report abuse and have it acted upon. What we lose, actually, is to warn other residents of the preson who did it, since we do not get a name to reprot.

If I may suggest a feature: Remove PvP, but show the name of the pusher in the chat history, like "Max Griefer hit you with a script", without popping up an abuse window. This way, people still have the name of the person, but they are not directly encouraged to file an AR for every simple bump they get.

My thoughts and interpretation of the Linden's comments. If they are in any way inaccurate, please correct me.

Id rather them remove it completely for revamping or a whole new system. I've had dozens of problem makers who nothing happens when a PvP report is issued. Top that with endless alt making.. They need to have an option to ban IPs from your land. If they have to wade through hundreds of thousands of angry people who report just because they can, then nothing will ever get done against real problem makers.

Simply allow people an opt in/out button for "push" effects.
I came here to build, relax, roleplay...... if I want to run around all the time "fighting", I'd go and play WoW.

To be honest I think the current system of PvP abuse reporting was little more than false security - a pretty dialog to calm the nerves. How many PvP reports get filed every day - how many items to do you see on the police blotter per day?

For the 26th of June there are 5 (yes five) item in the blotter and NONE have anything to do with PvP abuse. 6 on the 23rd June - again, no PvP (looks like they hovered up a single offensive group), and so on and so on. In fact you have to go back to the 19th june to find "Assault, Scripted Objects" and all that happened was a 7 day suspension.

Don't kid yourself, nothing has been lost because you didn't have anything in the first place.

Got a griefer? Call live help.


Just to interject here, banning by IP never has worked and never will work to control abusive people. I can just reconnect my modem, or switch to back up ISP, or use something like TOR and i'm back in your face with a new IP in minutes. Only this time I'm laughing at your feeble attempts to get rid of me.

Banning by range is no good, you will block entire groups of people just because of one idiot.

PvP abuse reports were fairly useless and are now even more useless with infinite alts but having no system to replace the existing one bad althouh I imagine LL's support staff wastes a lot of time dealing with them.

Hmmm
*adds more targetting slots to his present loadout*
Just don't piss me off. kthx.

Look at the police blotter - its painfully obvious that LL do almost nothing when it comes to abuse.

http://secondlife.com/community/blotter.php

LL clearly wastes no effort when it comes to dealing with abuse reports, especially pvp abuse.

I am okay to lose the option, can always report normally.

But it's not easy sometimes to find out WHO hit you with that pushgun. And that's not acceptable. If I am shot, I wanna know who did it.

And, the whole thing makes me sigh, as, as always, LL takes out one thing way before implementing the replacement. Wrong order of things.

*mew*
Sheila!

HOW THE FUCK ARE WE SUPOSED TO KNOW WHO PUSHED US 3 SIMS AWAY!!!!!!!!
WITH OUT PVP ABUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY WE WOULD EVER KNOW WHO THE FUCK HEAD WAS THAT PUSHED US



edit: yea im fucking pissed off at this clearly bone head move

I'm sorry but that kind of outburst helps nobody. please edit your post before the whole thread gets punted into the long grass.

Let's not panic yet. If you look at it closely, this is really an admission by the Lindens that their AR load has increased to the point that they need to reduce the number of pointless ARs in order to handle the important stuff.

They are not saying that they're doing away with ARs completely, so the title of this thread is misleading. I filed 2 more ARs last night, so ARs still do work -- the only thing lost was the ability to see who pushed you. But in normal LL fashion, they're going to take the easy way and remove that feature instead of fixing it.

I like the suggestion that we get chat messages if someone pushes us with scripts. Of course, if Lindens do what they said and allow us to click "Script push OFF" that might help their AR load more than taking away existing features.

<semi-sarcasm=on>
I'm actually excited about this! Means I can finally shoot back at those nitwits, rather than having to file Abuse Reports that take weeks to be responded to, and deal directly with them, wild-west style.

Well - at least until the new system is in place...whenever that might be!
<semi-sarcasm=off>

- Newfie

Hang on, on the one hand, they are saying there has been no significant increase in abuse reports. On teh other, they are saying there are so many frivolous reports that they have to close part of the AR feature. Does this look like deliberately massaging the figures to anyone else? It'll now be quite easy for them to say ARs have decreased, now they are ignoring a certain kind of abuse entirely.

Haha Nigel rocks

For the record, most orbiters don't leave a pvp abuse record. Considering that was the only really super disruptive weapon that I ever ran into (i mean direct targeted I will get you sucka!!! weapon) the loss of the abuse report doesn't mean much to me.

Subscribe to the police blotter, AR's only work if they are seen to work.

I have filled many AR's in my time here, including quite a few griefers - I have _never_ seen a single item in the blotter than would indicate that a single one my abuse reports ever lead to anything.

I can't even say for sure if my AR's were even read by a real person.

It seems they're simply taking away the automated PvP system that popped up when you got bumped, is this correct ?

Frankly that has only ever appeared for me accidentally. Never on the occasions that I have actually been orbited, and simply disallowing the use of push on another av without permissions would solve this anyway.

As far as I can tell we can still abuse report any and all griefing and violations of the TOS as before so at least from my experience, I'm losing nothing here.

It used to appear to me quite a bit. When I was new, I never filed the thing as abuse, because, Welcome Area = Lag = Bumping is going to happen.

Only time I have used it is when I have knowingly been abused. Like pushed about purposefully by a weapon designed with that as it intent. C4 being a prime example and when one idiot used a ball like weapon that bounced around and shoved people. I reported that too, since that was not the time nor the place to do something so idiotic.

But yes, I can see it as being easily abused and by now, I'm no longer surprised that LL has decided to take it away before putting something else in its place. I'm just getting tired of them doing it in reverse order. This is probably the most backwards company I have ever seen....

Same here ninjafoo -- but the police blotter does say it only shows 25 reports. It doesn't say it has any priority as to time or severity. In fact, yesterday I think I saw the same 25 reports on it (most of them offensive profiles) that I saw the day before.

The police blotter, in other words, is every bit as worthless as the automated push reports. It should be a tool that gives more pertinent information useful to residents. I would much rather see a rolling summary by day and week that showed how many ARs were investigated, what categories they fell into, and how many resulted in warnings, suspensions and bans. That would be toothsome.

The thing I want to stress to the Lindens is that many of your residents feel an investment in this world. We feel a sense of ownership. When we are treated like lab rats and not even notified before major policy changes take place (changes which directly affect the quality of our world), don't expect us to be happy -- but by the same token, acknowledge that ownership and keep us in the loop or you'll just end up losing us.

The solution is simple, remove the ability to orbit, limit the max possible push.

I'm with Crucial with this one...


WHY take it out BEFORE they have a better one all ready to be put in place at the same time they disable the other?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



C'mon =( Lindens are taking on an SOE approach anymore...

SOE's Phylosophy:
"fuck you as a customer because your an asshole.. we only want you money so shut up and leave if you like cause more are taking your place every day."

I REALLY have a problem with a company who cries because poeple try to do the right thing in reporting when they feel they have been violated or attacked even if it's due to LINDEN stuff!

This is really an outrage. I'm very sad that Lindens actually feel this way.


*sighs saddly*
Sav

When I see happening like this i think, what is happening to the IQ of the head people of LLabs?!?!?!? false reports? come on Torley ! You been around long enought to know thats a piece of rabbit poop remark about the PVP! These shows you these people like Torley are so out of touch with the actions around second life games these days! This does not surprize me anymore, since llabs sems to take less and less of the roll of protecting its members( example the forums getting hacked ) Its bad enough open signups has caused a large death spot in the game. But taking away the PVP?!