Joints?

Will they be removed before or after they're finally fixed and made actually functional?


- Newfie

Perhaps it has something to do with why they are adding something to indicate when people are in appearance edit mode.

It may be an attempt to cater to the brainpower of expected future users.

But if you remove my joints I either won't be able to bend my legs or else I will fall to the ground in a heap.

Where will my tendons connect to?

This might be a good topic for discussion.

After reading Andrew's post, I gotta say yank them out!

After reading this post.. Introvert says it all! Why offend us all by even asking?

Oh it just gives us vultures something to chew on. Now eat up before it goes cold!!

I have a swing that uses joints. (And really, if you have to ask people instead of performing a quick statistical query on the server, there is something very wrong with your software architecture )

well I might use condoms. but it doesn't mean I need them.

Well if you want to be extreme, I don't actually NEED joints, I don't sell my swing, so there's likely to be few copies of it around.
I'm sure just about every swing out there uses the same kind of joint, but I SUPPOSE people could recode it and offer their customers a new, non-broken version... or if the vendor no longer exists, I SUPPOSE people could buy a new one from a different vendor
The swing is sort of like this, but with pillows:

Assuming that this is related to Andrews post, I'm guessing and hoping it means they will be removed until they're finally made functional.

And I'll echo the sentiment that sure, even though there are a small number of cool things using this functionality, I'd like to see Havok3 implemented and if it means the joints must go, then cut them out. I never understood why they were even there and so instable/broken to begin with until I saw cool actual uses like Beatfox's windchimes.

Hmm, maybe they could take away vehicles while trying to solve the sim border crossing.

And clothes, they could take away clothes while trying to figure out what causes those black marks that show up?

Perhaps removing textures altogether would make it easier to solve the gray loading texture problem.

So you're a heavy joint-user then, I take it?

Bong!

No, but I do use stuff in Second Life, a lot of different things, and a great deal of them don't work right or don't work well.

My inventory takes minutes, like 10 minutes, to load at times, should they take away inventories while trying to figure out how to program inventories?

At times the chat bar doesn't respond at the rate I type at, should they eliminate chat while figuring out how to do chat?

I get gray textures that last for minutes or more every time I go anywhere, should they eliminate textures while show a blank screen while they work on getting textures right?

I get gray loading textures in the map, maybe everyone should be deprived of the map while fix things to suit me.

For god's sake, this program still can't be counted on to display avatars. People still have to use the change groups trick to get surrounding non-displayed avatars to appear. Should people have to give up avatars in the hopes that someday the guys who wrote an avatar based virtual environment program will someday figure out how to display avatars every single time or extremely, exceedingly close to it?

I think the difference is, there's a perception that joints are so amazingly broken and unusable that nobody uses them for any serious purpose. Which, contrary to Eggy's post, makes a good reason to post on a forum than some kind of software search - there may be many experiments in-world, but it's more useful to see if they're break anything anyone cares about.

Whereas people do seem to care about vehicles, clothes, and textures.

Ive tried using them for various thing - but found them unreliable.. I've seen a few things that use them that are pretty cool too....but I'd like to see a WHY they are considering it...

If Andrews post means 'we want to because we want to make them better sooner' then thats cool.

If it's 'We want to ... well just becuase we wanna fill out the next update list with things you said are ok' then thats uncool.

I think to make an OBJECTIVE post about the subject, that needs to be clarified.

Otherwise we are just blowing smoke out our own asses.

The rendering of objects and the display of textures is broken enough for me that I don't go inworld and do anything at all exept file bug reports and maybe go to a live music event, since that doesn't really involve much to do with 3D graphics but is really an audio event, it works ok.

People care about vehicles, clothes and cars because they are great big visible things that knock them in the face in the real world all the time, so to speak.

People don't care about the joints we have because they are extremely limited, not like what a real programmer would offer as joints in a commercial version of a program, but more like what an amateur programmer would offer, baby joints, toy joints, joints like what you would show your parents but no one else because you know that they will say they are great even though they aren't. Of course people don't care about joints, they don't work!

My suspion would be more along the lines that they have given up on joints, the guy who they though knew how to do joints found another job or decided that round off the square edges on formerly rectangular parts of the interface was a cooler way to spend time that doing compex physics and math and coding.

Once the joints are gone, is there going to be any pressure to bring them back?

The new customers the interface in being made for, who need something to tell them when they or others are in appearance edit mode, are they going to be making much demand for the reintroduction of a feature they never saw?

Andrew's post is the reason. This is way too reminiscent of The Great Hover-Tip Guessing Game of Ought-Five. They had a damn good reason to get rid of hover-tips (excess hits on the asset system) as they do with joints which have long been acknowledged by Andrew as being hopelessly broken.

But just as in Phil's "just wondering, idly, ignore the man behind the curtain" approach they started this post without sufficient information. Maybe it is part of the "game" except the prize for finding the real motivation could use some improvement.

I did think the "port the new physics engine is too big for the attention span of LL development process" was kinda homey and familiar-like, though. Yeah it was probably tongue in cheek, but jeez, I've never heard "attention span" as part of the variables affecting release schedules. Might I suggest an addition to the ToS:And yeah, I have Beatfox's windchimes which are hyper-cool, but my game doesn't revolve around them. And I'd probably buy whatever she replaces them with.

I forgot about that post by Andrew.

So, not only are we going to Havok3 instead of Havok2, but the current joints system is hampering progress, due to Andrew and company having to "code around them", so to speak. If we simply ripped them out of the code, the entire process would be much cleaner, more efficient, and ultimately have less bugs in them.

Joints are fundamentally broken in SL, and absolutely unstable. I once made a home in SL that used fairly basic joint work in order to make a free-swinging platform on the bottom. It worked fine for about 2-3 hours (as long as nobody touched it), but then it just started vibrating violently, until it either exploded or crashed the sim.

So yes, get rid of them; the folks that "use" joints are the people that haven't realized that they don't work yet, or they're just playing sandbox games (or, "let's make a multi-torus chain and make it jointed!".

LF

I wonder if this is a 'lets see how they react' kind fo thing. Like we're lab rats or something.

I use joints for mechanical looking parts. Lags bad thou.

But yes, what he said. hah
I use joints but I would rather trade the function in for a better engine.

Seems like their tired of racking their colelctive heads over the issue, and this is a less than direct way to let us know its going bye-bye. I'll miss my wind chimes, I really liked them, hopefully a good alternative can be made.

So much for using joints to make 3D puppets or critters. But then, may try it anyway, and enoy it while it's here.

I rather doubt it will come back, because that would require work, as opposed to removing it and then doing nothing, except perhaps mentioning some excuse about it being to difficult.

...

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical though, its been a long month...

I agree with Lordfly


honestly, I'd rather have Havok3 in sooner than later, and if joints are one of the big hurdles, I'd happily support removing that hurdle.

After reading the statement from Andrew, I agree.