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Should we stop showing hover tips for non-interactive objects?

Philip Linden
Founder, Linden Lab
Join date: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 428
11-08-2005 07:20
Reposting here to collect more feedback - if you have a chance read and give comments:

/20/35/70506/1.html#post731823
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Philip Linden
Chairman & Founder, Linden Lab
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
11-08-2005 07:25
Personally I like the hover tips. It's a fast and easy way to see who built what without having to right-click.

Since there is an option to turn them off, (which I've forgotten but did once accidentally) can't the people who find them annoying just do that rather than removing them for everyone?
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
11-08-2005 07:26
I like hover tips. Why the hover tip hatred?

Hit View - Hover tips turns them right off.
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MJ Hathor
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 901
11-08-2005 07:28
We already have the option to turn off hover tips if it is so annoying. Personally, I am use to the hover tips and it would take some time getting use to not having this feature.

With that being said, it seems to me like there is more important things that need to be fixed, changed and added other than hover tips. Unless, disabling this feature is going to enhance the performance of SL, I just don't see why this is even something that should be of concern right now.

MJ :)
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-08-2005 07:29
Make the option to turn them ON, not off. It can be annoying to a new player, and you don't know what to do to get them to go away.

coco

P.S. Congrats! It's your 500th post! lol
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
11-08-2005 07:31
From: Cocoanut Koala
Make the option to turn them ON, not off. It can be annoying to a new player, and you don't know what to do to get them to go away.

coco


I completely disagree. Leave them as they are, with the default being ON.
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
11-08-2005 07:35
From: Jonquille Noir
I completely disagree. Leave them as they are, with the default being ON.


Second that, I'm happy with them how they are.
Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
11-08-2005 07:36
It's better to give people options than to try to guess what's best for everyone or most people. Instead of taking capabilities away when you think it might be annoying, just make it optional and let each user decide what they want. All the users win that way.

HP
Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
11-08-2005 07:42
I like them the way they are. I often hover over an object just to see who the owner is. Its a whole lot faster and easier that 'right click > Edit > More > General'.

-Ghoti
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
11-08-2005 07:43
Nice to see the important issues are being addressed :rolleyes:
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
Hover tips give.. well tips
11-08-2005 07:45
I rely on them to quickly see how an object works.

I do like that I can turn them off (they get in the way of a good tringo game).

But turning them off for a few objects might be nice.

What about a flag on the object to show or not show hover tips? Which could be overridded either way by the user?
Numa Herbst
SHI-SHAAA!!
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 99
11-08-2005 07:54
Leave 'em as they are unless, as MJ pointed out, there is a performance hit by leaving them enabled.

CTRL-SHIFT-T is handy for those that don't care to see them.
Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
11-08-2005 08:01
From: Numa Herbst
Leave 'em as they are unless, as MJ pointed out, there is a performance hit by leaving them enabled.

CTRL-SHIFT-T is handy for those that don't care to see them.


OMG NOOB here had the pop-ups disappear and I wanted them back... although not always... i had no idea ctrl-shift-T was the switch... had looked around in pref's but didn't see... although I've missed things in preferences before

out of curiousity... where are shortcuts/commands like ctrl-shift-T listed?

perhaps this is my way of saying, I liked having it as a default "on" -- helps new players get an understanding of objects and object names -- but make it clearer how to toggle this on and off.
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
11-08-2005 08:09
I vote for leave them as they are. Those who don't want them can turn them off in preferences....
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Numa Herbst
SHI-SHAAA!!
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 99
11-08-2005 08:11
Hi Forseti,

It's tucked away in the menu, under 'View'.

I had accidentally toggled it off when I was lazily doing a 'Highlight Transparent' (CTRL-ALT-T).
Laukosargas Svarog
Angel ?
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,304
Make more use of the cursor
11-08-2005 08:15
Make more use of the cursor
I find Hover tips equally useful and irritating.
I like to see how much a buyable item costs but try playing a game like Mahjong and you'll soon turn off the tips while playing at least.

If the purpose is to reduce bandwidth used by millions of hovertip texts, then I suggest...

- Disable tips in prefs by default. ( Inform new users that tips exist if they require them )

- Disable tips for inert unscripted objects.

- Enable all tips at the press of some modifier key.

- Make more use of the cursor ( some of this happens already )
-- Change the cursor when hovering over a touchable object
-- Change the cursor when hovering over a pushable object
-- Change the cursor when hovering over a buyable object.
-- Change the cursor if object can be copied or taken.
-- Change the cursor if object accepts inventory.

-- and combinations of above.


[edit]
Another idea is to stop showing the name and description and add another field specifically for hover text, this be a scripted prim parameter maybe.
Francis Chung
This sentence no verb.
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 918
11-08-2005 08:16
From: Kris Ritter
Makes sense to me. For one thing I dislike the constant popping of tooltips as you mouse around even on bits of builds and stuff so much I've permanently disabled all tooltips, though they can be handy for interactive stuff.

You could always make a preference? radiobuttons or selector for 'always on everything' 'always off' or (roughly) 'interactive only' as per your criteria above.


I like tooltips myself. But I agree with Kris that the radio button idea is probably the best solution.
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Sapphire Bombay
Avatar
Join date: 8 Oct 2003
Posts: 341
11-08-2005 08:19
They are fine just as they are.
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
11-08-2005 08:22
From: Ghoti Nyak
I like them the way they are. I often hover over an object just to see who the owner is. Its a whole lot faster and easier that 'right click > Edit > More > General'.

-Ghoti


I second this - it's easier also for a new person to default with it on and then they can later turn it off if they find it annoying as they come to learn more about the interface.

.
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
11-08-2005 08:26
You can't make such a momentuous decicision for yourselves? Hard stuff, I know.

I can tell you, as a customer who didn't write the SL prototype but has read a book on HCI (or maybe just the table of contents, I forget) that upon entry to the game, having my cursor say "Object / Owner: Joe Avatar / Script Touch Money / Right-Click for menu" is
  1. confusing
  2. incomprehensible
  3. uniformative
  4. misdirecting (right-click gives me options that I understand even less: yay!)
Pretty good for beta code for customers who already know all the terminology though. Good Work!

At present though, I'd suggest that you work on making the tips say "Object / Owner: < something other than unknown> / If you touch me I might do something / If you buy me and are lucky I might end up in your inventory". That would be an improvement.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
11-08-2005 08:40
I use tool tips and camera pan / strafe (until it broke) all the time - please don't take them away! In fact, I'd like to see more use of the cursor.

In addition to Laukosargas Svarog's suggestions:

- Option to show contents in hover tips on a buyable item showing "what you're getting" - contents, copy, the rights you'll have when you buy it, etc.
- Option to include creator in hover tips
- Option to include your rights to the object in hover tips (move/copy/etc)

Just a few of the things I'd like easier access to instead of right click, edit, more, object tab, contents tab... if you get my drift. :-)

Regards,

-Flip
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
11-08-2005 09:07
I think tool tips should stay on all objects. I often put helpful information in the name and description fields. I also use tooltips to find out who the owner is without needing to open the Edit window.

I like the fact that it's optional, so that if you really hate them, you can turn them off, but the default should be on, so that new users benefit from the metadata they provide.
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DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
11-08-2005 09:22
I hate those friggin' hover tips. But as there's an option to turn 'em off, why change anything.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
11-08-2005 09:26
I like the tool-tips. The hover time required to bring them up is just long enough that you rarely see them unless you want to. They're indispensible for quickly checking ownership of something without having to go into edit mode. I'd guess that the vast majority of the time I want to see a tooltip on something, it's not an interactive object.
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
11-08-2005 09:35
I like them. I tried playing without them for awhile and felt so lost that I had to turn them back on.

It's like anything else...we don't know what we have, until we lose it :(
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