Collecting information about your computer?

Hardware Bans DO work.

Anyone in other online games such as Battlefield 2 knows of these. The only way around them once you're banned (supposedly), is to replace the components- motherboard, cpu, video card, maybe even RAM. No one's sure which ones are watched. Most likely Motherboards.

SO! After this, would anyone care to try griefing so they can replace all their computer's components?

If this is how they're planning on identifying users- Go For it!! Keeps everyone honest, really.

If you like to grief with alts, then maybe you'll not like it.

***edit****

Just wanted to add- Saying whether or not you pay using Paypal, Credit Card, or neither, isnt THAT invasive. Who really cares??

By searching SL or here in the forums, I can pretty much find out if you are a paying member or not. Do I care? NOPE!!!

Mmm I understand that one. I guess that bit's up to us partly, and how we choose to treat each other as to how that'll turn out.

Odd .. I had thought that they already did this.

The problem I have is like any other form of spyware that installs itself on my machine to monitor what goes on. The only difference here is that they are admitting that it is, rather than quietly installing itself like most other spyware.

This also does not get round the problem of underage. Let's just say for example a parent has an SL account on the main grid, and their teenage daughter plays on the teen grid - separate accounts, perfectly legitimately. How do they plan to differentiate that "the last time someone logged in from this computer they were on the main grid, now they've logged in on a different account onto the teen grid".

I would much prefer that unverified accounts be restricted in their access, with a simple one-off fee to unlock all facilities. Being stuck to PG areas would not only get over the age issue but also encourage LL to open up more PG land for those of us who want it but can't find good land, removing the ability to run scripts would stop much of the griefer grid crashing, and a simple one off $10 payment to unlock the rest of the game is frankly nothing for people who want to be here. It also doesn't stop people 'looking round' to see what SL offers.

The whole 'something for nothing' culture is damaging overall, free accounts are leeching off bandwith that premium customers are paying for. I am not a welfare office.

Lewis

A webpage doesn't read my MAC address.

I don't care, personally. I've already given LL my credit card number and bought lindens with it, I wouldn't have done that if I didn't trust them enough as a company. It doesn't bother me.

Judging by most other things round here, "this will not end well".

Lewis

Thats what a bunch of Sailors thought about their private info.... Until it appeared on the web... Now this data included Social Security Numbers and worst it included Credit Card numbers...

There is a big difference between identifying hardware and 'monitoring what goes on'. I have at least 10 applications on my machine that also do this, for licensing.

What I wonder is exactly what will they be doing poking around my hard drive?

Nearly every website you visit pulls some information from your computer. If LL says they can use this information to make sure a banned individual stays banned, then that is a step in the right direction.

Lewis, true that it is not what was asked for in the voting proposals or with the protest. But those efforts may have had some impact in LL making this decision. The fact is that often it is necessary to compromise. It is time to accept that LL is not going back to using CC. I think that would be the ideal solution as well but we rarely in life get everything we want, sometimes we settle for what is possible.

I'm not thrilled about this plan of LL's to show whether someone has paid or not. I see it as developing into a class system...the paids and unpaids. I see it playing out as a huge portion of SL denying access to anyone who falls into the first category, the unverified (the "unclean" basically). Unfortunately as someone who runs a busy facility where people come to relax and to hold classes and discussions, my partners and I will likely do the same.

Then the other two categories basically equal the basic accounts and the premium accounts. So every person I meet will be able to glance at my profile and see I am a basic account. Lets face it, we've all seen it in the forums how so many people look down on those they see as "only free basics", people getting a free ride. I can't find it now and I don't remember who, but I remember someone once saying that basic accounts contribute nothing to SL. People who feel that way will feel that way about me when they read my profile.

I run two islands with other partners, I own and run a business, I both earn and spend L$, I help to run a club with over 300 active members, hosting daily discussions, classes and events. I have friends and a lover, I have an entire community of people I am a part of. Yet now someone can glance at my profile and decide, I am only a basic account, I contribute nothing.

I see this entire plan as problematic, but I do also see it as an effort on LL's part.

So as to the _no info/some info/all paid up_ idea I will do as everyone else, ride it out, hope for the best and see how it develops.

As to the method LL says they will use to pull info from every computer and use it to track offenders... no it isn't what I had hoped for but it is better than this nothing right now. It at least tells me that they realize tracking people is necessary. I see it as a step, progress.

Wellll... that was a bit of a different situation. First, the info will be encrypted, so even if some Linden brought those numbers home, *ahem*, they would be useless if stolen.

The Sailors were told their info was encrypted also... It still appeared on the Web.


Bad move, Linden Labs, Bad indeed

Yes, and it will go both directions.

Some basic account holders, and even premium account holders who are self styled champions of the downtrodden, will use it to launch attacks on premium account holders. There will be cries of favoritism, and all the usual handwringing. Maybe someone will invent some more divisive acronyms.

And of course, as you've stated, there will be the premium account snobs who use it as an avenue to attack basic account holders.

Blech.

Actually, I don't think they will be able to tell basics from premiums with this system. What they are showing is whether you gave your CC# or paypal account, and whether or not you used it. So, if you are a basic that has used a credit card or paypal to purchase lindens, you would be lised as the "top tier", lol. Howya like them apples, basic haters?

But Lifetime US$225 dollar accounts get 4092 meters of land for free. Techinically I do not need to buy more land, 4000 is plenty to do some good stuff with. If I had wanted to, I could had never used my card on the site again.

Another Wrong move by Linden labs.

Still, Magnum, that was extreme incompetence that any company with a database of it's customers information could have done, yet thankfully, have not. Some Linden could take home the CC#'s of all premium accounts, load it into their home computer, and have it stolen, right now, before any of this. And that is far more valuable info than my MAC address.

I hope you're right.

I see several questions in these threads that should probably be asked in the Answers forum.

Any takers?

That is what they think happened to the Sailors numbers. Which is why Linden Labs needs to trash this whole concept and come up with another non-privacy rights violiation, way of checking age.

Thats where I went first, but of all the questions that Torley just answered, wouldn't you know, my privacy question was ignored.

Here is the question that Torley ignored"

I think at this point people are already discriminating against anyone who is a newbie, even if they are premium sign-ups, is that fair?

If someone wants to find a reason to discriminate and be an asshole, they will find one whether LL helps them out or not. To me, this will clearly identify said assholes by their behavior so I can better aviod them. I certainly don't give a flip what they think of me.

nice. don't like the fact we let in any fucker these days? well ok then, we'll turn the client into spyware! problem solved!

LL, even when I think you've been as fucking moronic as you can possibly be, you manage to surprise me all over again. You assholes.

She'll probably get to it.

I wasn't referring to the privacy issue though, when I said that about the Answers forum, because collecting ID numbers of various sorts from my computer's parts doesn't worry me in the least. They cannot get my Social Security Number or my medical records. They will not look at data on your hard drive. They will collect unique numbers which identify your motherboard, your network card, processor, video card, etc.

In fact, they already poll your machine for CPU, OS, video card, open GL version, IP, and so forth. Some of it is shown under Help/About, in the client menu.

So, I am not worried about that at all. I am worried about the contention that will arise over the various account status types being displayed in people's profiles. I think it's a bad move.

One can say, "So what? Who cares what other people think?" But when people are already saying they're going to ban all non-premium accounts from their land, flames are going to start, and it doesn't matter if one can personally remove themself from it, it's still bad for the community as a whole.

But here is the thing. This is, really, what people were asking for.

When you have griefers signing up with one alt after another, making banning them impossible, landowners who were being continually harrased wanted a way to keep out those who were causing the grief. And the easiest way to tell is whether they have given up some identifying information, like a credit card, and if they actually used it. Yes, that would mean banning even decent law abiding basics who haven't bought lindens, but I've also read people wanting to ban based on age of avatar. Which could also mean banning a decent, newbie premium member. At some point, no matter what the solution, someone is going to be screwed. And that isn't really the landowner's fault, they didn't vote for the open registration system, they just have to live with the fallout. (I don't own land myself, btw)

Anyone who is running Windows XP involving Product Activation, or any other software which creates a system-specific "installation number" which the unlock key is bound to, should stop soiling their underwear, on the basis that LL are just going down a similar road to those well-tolerated approaches.

What LL are doing (if I'm reading things right, which I Officially Believe I Am) is gathering some easy hardware serial numbers (MAC of network adaptor, serials of hard disks, possibly a CPU serial where the hardware provides it) and hashing it to produce an arbitary "system ID number". There may be some amount of resiliance built in to the comparison, so that just changing your MAC address (easily done, apparently) won't let you pass your system off as an entirely different machine.

I don't want LL to expose that System ID# stuff to anyone else, in any form - but it doesn't look like they're going to, according to them. This would mean no ready way for landowners to ban "This idiot and all of his alts" directly, but it should give LL-issued System Bans some teeth back.

I personally wouldn't call this spyware. Spyware investigates / interferes with the things you're actually doing on your PC - the apps you run, the websites you visit, etc. Spyware is fed to you under false pretenses and is generally hard to remove - if you don't consent to this properly-documented trivial hardware profile of your PC being recorded, then the SL client is easily uninstalled.

Windows XP is an operating system. Second Life is a game client. Big fucking difference in my opinion.