Lindens need to fix the bugs not end dwell

So you're saying all that existed before dwell?

So why are you upset it's going away?

I guess dwell may have made more sense when the world was smaller with less residents. Since, I joined a few months ago, It seems that Second Life is on an upward incline of new residents influxing in mass droves every month. Also, I gather that people abuse the dwell system with things like camping chairs and all that jazz.

Ok, so the camping chairs will host a mighty bonfire, the campers unseated........... Where do all these campers now migrate to? Since they won't be stationary, lost in a vast sea of afk's, busy's, and im focused, surely they will actually either venture out and see content that has greater worth than the fabric textured cushions on their chair. Maybe they might even find places to meet and socialize, spending hopefully revalued linden on these new vista's. That's the good side................. Now what happens to the plethora of camping sites? If that was the only venue planned for the land, and the owner is one of the "few" that feel distraught over the loss of dwell, then the parcel becomes another littered mess on our scenic views. Kind of akin to a dwell graveyard, where all good camping devices go to their final rest. Those with the gleam of money still in their gaze will come up with some pay for pass system, to most like overated/inflated content (think mature theme here), or another casino will be spawned from prim heaven. Yes, economics is here to stay, the haves and the haves not, supply and demand. And unless you are very good, landbaron/baroness, merchant, tip collector, it is more a pipe dream to make enough to pay your tier whilst having a little left over for your own entertainment and enjoyment. In varying degrees, this world cost us in cold hard cash. As long as we are getting the proper value for that money, I see nothing wrong with that. I certainly don't expect a free ride on something I spend way to much time on. However, I also do not wish to see dimishing returns on my investement. Remove dwell, raise the value of the linden. Remove stipend, then create a much more equitable system for tier. I do have my doubts about those on non-premium accounts staying for long without any stipend though. The ones that I have befreinded, squeeze their small stipend as far as it will go just to enjoy some inworld content, and they almost always pool their resources. They have neither the budget to pay tier or purchase linden, so they rely on any work they can get and their small stipends. Ah............. I have rambled long enough, and forgot what I was saying anyway, lol......

No you mis-understood, all the content existed before the Linden had value.

hahahaha! I can just hear it!

coco

There is always the donations model.

My Game Show Channel in TSO survived entirely on donations, after about the first two months. I had saved up enough to not only buy the land and build it, but to give out prizes, too, for a couple of months. After that, people just contributed - without even being asked. Plus we had dwell, but that was a drop in the bucket compared to donations.

Of course, in TSO there was a way for me to make money in the FIRST place to save up for the land and the first month or so, though it took a long time. So I think what Travis (I believe it was) said about it being even harder now to get started is true.

coco

P.S. It was hard enough already in February of 2005 that I decided not to do the Game Show Channel here. In order to do it, I would have had to learn how to make things in order to make money anyway, and I don't like to do something without giving it my all.

I wouldn't want to make things just so I could do something else. I made that decision back then, and have been happy ever since, because making things is ALSO something I wanted to do and enjoy doing, and fortunately, there is a way to profit from that.

I fear we will end up getting entertainment put on by those with a lot of real life money, rather than entertainment put on by those who are good entertainers.

The linden had no value because at the time there weren't any players. There was just a tiny knot of people who knew about the game.

Money, like anything else is a resource, there are ways it can go in (at the moment dwell, stipend, new user signup) and ways it can go out (texture/sound/animation uploads, surcharges on LindeX)

If more money goes in than out, the economy becomes undervalued.
This means the L$ value drops like it has been doing, people complain that they are unable to get money for their products, many prices increas to compensate.
RL equivelent would be needing a wheelbarel of money to buy a loaf of bread.

If more money goes out than stays in, the economy becomes overvalued.
This means that people have a distinct lack of money, the value becomes abnormally high and people cannot afford currency.
RL equivelent Dotcom explosion where a sockpuppet can give execs of a pre-IPO company personal jets for each individual... then the dotcom crash which left many of those same pre-IPO companies and their investors broke.

For stability, checks and balances are needed, currently, the economy's sliding more towards the overvalued... and a check is needed to prevent the economy from going into a very negative state.

SL has already had at least one dotcom grade bubble, removing traffic rewards is a safeguard against a second.

It's clear that Magnum is a very deep economic thinker. Take this post, for example.



I think that really says it all, right there. Clearly this is a very deft mind with compelling points to make both economically and strategically. The grasp of practical reality, supply and demand, action and consequence, it's all right there. If you really want to tangle with Magnum, keep in mind the sharpness of his incisive wit.

I would appreciate it, Enabran, if you would focus on the discussion at hand.

coco

I have yet to see a self-repairing computer outside of science fiction.

Robots still need resources to produce products.

It's relevant-ish.

So SL was totally free then and you didn't pay for uploads, or to own land or for anything?

Isn't a case of making one thing to make another - it has all been one long continuous plan. Making the means for people to swim so they could enjoy the pool - making the slides to work well with the pools and the ability to swim - giving people the option to take that home if they wish.

I daresay that a lot of Disney's revenue is generated from merchandise as opposed to park entry fees.

And if giving people the option of taking the rides home with them affords me the opportunity to expand the facility to a full island who's future will be more solid than sinking money then praying for Dwellopers Incentive and fighting for a slice of that pie - then I've made the right decision.

Time - and another 6 months will tell I guess.

You really should use Private Messaging for private discussions, Cocoanuts.

Actually, you had to pay per prim rezzed.

The Linden Dollar had value since it was first introduced in Beta... it's value was more direct then, however people still sold and bought Lindens on e-bay and other more direct USD transactions.

People gamed it with taxes, by investing in 'prim banks' which are bulk items rezzed simply to increase one's stipend.

Gaming the system is not new, removing those methods of gaming is not new, assigning a US dollar value to the currency is not new. All have existed since at least 1.0.

There is a very real resource value to a L$, it allows you to upload textures, sounds, and animations. As long as those basic items exist, there will still be a very real value to the L$.

Yes, I get the idea - in principle.

That it will all flow together as it does in the real world.

But meanwhile, if you don't make stuff to sell, you can't put on entertainment (without donations). That's what stopped me.

Moreover, even in the long term, you will never be able to make money quite the same way people in the real world do, by charging drinks, for instance.

But - as you say, only time will tell.

I got a feeling, though, that before we even get a CHANCE for time to tell, the Lindens will freak at the lack of entertainment (and possibly an increase, rather than decrease, in sex-related entertainment), and rather than providing dwell for everyone will instead decide just to pay their favorite entertainers.

coco

No, no.....
don't you see, Magnum is right.
This downtime isn't about data server problems, thats a cover. See I was in the grid earlier, and heard 2 economic Lindens talking. Theyre in there placing special Traffic Gremlins in the grid, who will actually eat the dwell payments.However, thay have to fiddle with the data server to enable them.
If you dont believe me, when you log in, go to debug, disable all rendering options, enter mouselook, and if you wait long enough you'll see one move at the edge of your screen

Gesh thisis not a fight to see who is right! Its about the game hopely getting better. Who cares what someone heard or saw that is not the issue. Whatis is gettign the game backup and running......agreeing with people with power does not prove anything, actions does. I am in the preview now and i hope i don`t crash or frezze the system......Lets get along and stop this chatter..work together..............File bug reports any time you have a problem and wil be sitting great. Talk is cheap but action is where the problem solvers live.

This is the case - you won't be able to instantly put on entertainment and rely on donations for that - most certainly.. Just I am totally unable in RL to make a huge investment to build a waterpark and maintain it - so it comes down to thinking outside the box.

One of the good things is that no matter how good you are - no man is an island in and of himself.. Even if you have all the skills yourself, you probably won't have the time to be a one man band. I know this from first hand experience - I can build/script/texture/animate/ and run a successfull SL radio show - but I can't do them all all the time.

If I manage to re-locate waterworks I will certainly want some entertainment and events running there - traffic still has a use, to push a place up the find list and popular places.

One thing I've discovered from running 'mini waterworks' is that if there is one or two green dots - ten will congregate - no green dots begets no green dots.. people have a curiosity to go see what others are doing.

Entertainment means people come - people stay and enjoy - that translates into sales that maintain what I'm doing. So adding Entertainment to my list of things to pay for seems a logical thing to do. People will be hired/contracted/whatever.

People have to start reaching out for others that cover thier weak points - different skills will plug together like a big ass tinker toy, and I think the folks that grasp and embrace this will be very successful in the next phase of Second Life.

Content is not just building/scripting/animating/texturing - these skills alone won't create anything totally compelling. Entertainment, ambience, feeling - these are all also content and must be created by those with the skillsets to do them, and it will only take a few to grasp this concept and run with it before it changes everything.

Personally I'm hoping to put myself at the crest of that new wave - again - I'll have to see how that works out.

Make the coders coffee? Mop those fevered brows? Maybe a production possibility curve or something could stand in for an algorithm at a pinch... that'll run well.

lets hope so

Addendum to my last post as I didn't quite get all the stuff across I wanted to:

The sex industry - sex sells there is no doubt about it. People will pay for a 'good time' even a virtual one.. in SL folks have to buy all the 'bits' and sometimes rent someone to use them with - then get the anims - or pay to use some 'hired anims' with folks.

In RL the Porn industry is extremely forward thinking - they've adopted some of the technology thats come along far before anyone else and turned it to profit. The VCR - the Internet itself - even in SL it's the biggest industry there is.

Rather than turn the nose up at Adult Entertainment, look at it and see why its successful and see if you can't make those selfsame things work for your business.

In the scenario I suggested above - not everyone need pay for entertainment - that RL thing of 'buying a ticket and see the show' just isn't working in SL even though we have the tools to easily make it so.. However I'm willing to wager that if *I* pay for the entertainment, I'll recoup my losses and more in additional revenue from sales. It's the same fundemental plan that runs camping chairs, only of course that in my case I'm giving you a reason not to be afk

And I'll bet that both myself, and whoever is hired to do that days entertainment comes out further ahead than a 20 L$ Dwell payment

Siggy's right, service industries could be a potentially good venture to gain money. Currently I believe that there's only one major non-adult business in SL that does offer work positions. I would like to see additional work places, sadly, I can't fund that for secondlifeservers.com or I would have by now. though I'm hoping side ventures will be able fund an employment system for others.