what are your gripes about the new resmod system?

please be specific and don't name names and don't "attempt incite anger or directly attack a person or persons"

complaint #1: thread that are critical of the resmod system seem to get shut down arbitrarily

complaint #2: the criteria have gotten less clear and the application of those criteria have gotten less consistent.

what do you think the implications of the new resmod system are?

for reference:

I hope you don't mind...I am going to repost here since this thread is more appropriate for my post...



For me, the people who agreed to become resident mods are certainly not a problem. You are all some of Second Life's finest, and many of you are VERY close friends of mine.

The selection process that choose unaware/uninterested/inactive players over a huge list of qualified, enthusiastic volunteers was the first red flag, but I was prepared to give it time.

The fact that Abuse Report privacy is now completely compromised has, for me, removed Abuse Reporting as a forum feature. I will be more comfortable when Resident Mods are unable to see these reports.

But at the very core is something more complex. I feel that adding 15 new resmods may be an attempt to fix part of the forums that were never broken, while ignoring the real problems. Rather than now seeing threads whisked away to "off topic" in lighting fast, record time, even on the weekends!!! ...

...I would rather see the TOS/CS modified in such a way that Jeska, all by herself, is empowered to ACT when forum problems arise. She should be able to nip problem users in the bud before they start months of forum rampages. An empowered Jeska would be worth a 100 resident moderators to me.

I hope Jeska doesnt mind me quoting her here, but this is from the ResMod forum.



The biggest thing I dont like at the moment, is the level of transparency, unlike say, locking a thread - threads sent for review vanish from the public until Jeska adjudicates. There's no room for explanation, it just 'vanishes'.

IMO, I'd prefer just being able to say, close a thread, and post the thread link to Jeska, who can re-open it, if it's an undue closing, or leave it closed if it doesnt deserve to be reopened. This way everyone can see exactly what happened, and for what reasons.

Another alternative, is to make the topic queue visible for everyone, not just ResMod's & Lindens.

My only gripe with the new ResMod system is how much Drama its generating.

I didn't expect it to work flawlessly right out of the gate. Mistakes will ensue. However, I have full faith that the ResMods that are chosen will learn from them - and in the end, we may end up with something better than we had before.

I'll also chalk it up to "better with time," and I think Aimee stated it pretty much in line with what I think of it.


I'm also quite bothered by the "a winner is you" impetus of selection. It put a couple of us in a really uneasy position that didn't need to happen that way.


But all the same, I think it's a good idea if and only if Linden Lab is prepared to take the effort to make it work. All too often I see this sort of thing started and neglected entirely or done completely half-assed.

I don't expect it to work out of the gate, but I do expect things to work in a reasonable timeframe from the start. This is a good opportunity for Jeska and LL to break that bad habit, and I hope they do so.

Yeppers. I worked with Resident Assistants (RAs) in student housing at two universities. Sure, that system has some glitches, but it is nearly universal and works nearly universally.

Do we need to go back to the days of Mrs. Garrett? (Sorry, Jeska )

http://www.crazyabouttv.com/Images/factsoflife.jpg

ZOMG POSTING RL PHOTOS IS AGAINST TOS!!!!!


(I'm Tootie...a little known fact ).

My biggest gripe is that one person who is a mod should NEVER have been selected because that person has posted some of the nastiest, most insulting and antagonostic posts I have seen. I cant imagine what criteria were used that could have allowed this member to be selected except for obvious FIC related ones that do not require mentioning.

Some basic simple review of posts made would have revealed this had the selection team bothered.

These forums have needed moderating for quite some time. Trolls abound. I don't know how many serious threads I've seen deteriorate because a mental tire-slasher decided to mess things up. Same goes for people who can't say two sentances without F***ing it to the gills. It takes no intelligence to post such things, and brings no benefit to these forums. To newcomers, it presents LL and SL in a very bad light.

That said, it makes sense to moderate the mods. As a counter-check system, perhaps the mods themselves should not be able to remove posts or threads. They can be the "first line" of defense, and report abuses to a superior mod. That superior, upon agreeing that the post is improper, may then remove the post. In this way, they would help eliminate the concept (correct or no) of people running around on a power trip-- as well as the potential problem of a moderator being in a bad mood on a particular day.

But as far as the concept of forum moderation itself goes-- long overdue.

My gripes:

1. As Aimee put it in another thread, "The Lindens have a long-term, career-related, vested interest in behaving professionally." Residents don't.

I don't mind being scared of a Linden. And if a Linden should screw me over, I'd be inclined to think, well, them's the breaks. It's quite another thing, though, for another resident to be placed in power over me.

2. More than one of those on the list have treated me pleasantly, both on the forums and in the game, just as people everywhere have always treated me.

But more than one of those on the list have not. They have made it clear how they feel about me - as a person, not regarding my ideas - whether I wanted to hear it or not. I've been called a liar, told I was "lying to newbies," and treated to post that listed why, unlike the entire rest of the universe, I was the one person that resident didn't like. (And added all the horrible personality traits I had.) One of those on the list has referred to other residents as "a cancer in the society." Others have said things that are similarly belittling to other residents. And they have said such things in full view of everyone, proudly even. And now they are going to unbiasedly moderate everyone as well?

So you have a roster consisting of some people who have been nice and pleasant throughout, and others who have unburdened themselves as to what is wrong with the other posters here, to varying nasty degrees.

Clearly, I'm not going to feel real comfortable about having people over me who have made it clear to all and sundry that I should be regarded as pond scum.

Would you?

3. Most important - more important than any other consideration - is this system gives a few select residents not just more information than everyone else, and not just the ability to run the forums as they wish, but also power over other residents' ability to continue to play Second Life. Warnings lead to suspensions, and suspensions lead to banning.

Not - unfortunately - just from the forums themselves, but from the entire game, resulting in confiscation of that resident's second worldly goods as well.

When TSO offloaded their forums to Stratics, they allowed unpaid volunteers to moderate them. But at the same time, they also rescinded the always draconian rule that a forum suspension or banning automatically meant a suspension or ban from the game as well.

Thus, those moderators could not do anything *to* any other player, aside from banning them from the forums, which was bad enough. They could have zero influence in causing them harm in the game itself.

Here we have a situation where those who have made their animosity to other residents perfectly clear being given the ability to influence a resident's entire future on the grid.

And even if everyone on the list of moderators were squeaky clean in the past (and a couple there now actually are), it is still wrong to let some paying residents have power over whether other paying residents can or cannot play the game.

The first step - one which should have preceeded this one - is to remove the rule that says a suspension or banning from the forums automatically means suspension or banning from the game itself.

coco

doesn't really fix a problem - just brings a multiple of agendas on board.

Rather than 'what the company likes' its now 'what the company AND person x y and z' like.

The ResMod system--or its probable, yet related descendants--are something I've mused about for quite awhile now. Popular talk of scaling abound and all the ideas that burst like warm chocolate cookies in the mouth here, one of the absolutely most valuable things about all this... is it's encouraging discussion! Just this flood of new ideas in reaction to the changes that've taken place. I see so many Resis bringing their personal experiences and sharing them, about the good and bad and everything in between. And I couldn't put a price on that. What I can catch tho, is what unfolds in time.

It's just been a few days and I won't say the cliched "give it a chance" (ooops I just did), but I'm really looking forward to see this be shaped from an amorphous blob into something with positive purpose, that helps illuminate the SL Forums.

To have ResMods now, developing character, gaining experience... if I didn't see criticism I'd be alarmed, because adversity presents us with opportunities for advancement. All of us.

If people are going to speak up--constructively of course--that points to the foundation of why I came here in the first place, and I'm thankful for that.

I will just repeat what I posted before in another resmod thread...
/108/19/85056/1.html


It strikes me as a huge gap between 'user-created' and 'user ran' I pay my fees and teir to LL hence I trust LL. It seems to me that if LL gives control of anything, be it forums or inworld over to some users its going to create many more problems than it could ever solve amd also decays trust I have now in LL. It simply boils down to trust for me.

Possibly part of what is involved here is the question of not only whether or not the ResMods are moderating the system properly... but how the system should be moderated. What exactly does moderation of these forums mean?

Years ago, before the Internet, in the days of FIDOnet, I was sysop for a BBS. We ran a FIDO-based discussion board (the predecessor of forums). That board was moderated. Absolutely no offensive language was permitted. Absolutely no flaming. Respect for other users was required-- or a person would be blocked from posting.

The result? In the day when a board processing 20-30 messages a day was common-- we were processing 600-700. Every day. Rather than restricting conversation, moderation increased conversation, because people knew they could say what was on their minds without having some troll rake them over the fire. They didn't have to put up with foul-mouthed "shock" posts. They could log on to that board any day and enjoy actual intelligent conversation-- and it thrived.

While I know there are those who will disagree (there always are), I see nothing wrong with LL setting down some strong moderation rules. The problem is... how will those things be enforced? Should LL hire someone full time to read every single post on the forums? That's one method-- albeit an expensive one. An alternative is to use resident forum enthusiasts who will volunteer to do the job. Makes perfect sense; it's done by forums all over the Internet (ie, Linden Lab is not the first to enable this concept).

But along with this comes the necessary step of doing it right. Those moderators themselves need to be moderated, to make sure they do their jobs right. One way would be for them to flag the bad posts, those posts be brought to Jeska's attention (or whoever is authorized) and those posts deleted/warnings given if the moderator's opinion of the post proves valid. That prevents abuse of power and puts the authority where it belongs: with Linden Lab.

i think it's worth mentioning that some of the actions being taken are not arbitrary or new to the forums, it's just that now there exists a larger force to help keep the forums within its own guidelines.

technically speaking these are PG forums, something with which i think needs some revamping, but regardless of my feelings.. the fact remains that these are supposed to be PG forums and as such are not supposed to allow any profanity, nudity or a few other non-PG items.
the fact that many posts have included these things in the past doesn't make it right. when you see something disappear, it could be as simple as it contains profanity or a nude picture.. and while it may feel restrictive and over-the-top, it's actually helping to bring these forums under the rules it's supposed to be following anyway.

i understand that many Resis don't take offense to these things and are put off by them being censored. i would prefer to see some forums rated PG and some rated Mature, just like when you're in-world. i may not completely agree with the rules, but now part of my function is to help enforce them.

so, please see some actions for what they truly are.. enforcing the rules. it doesn't mean things are changing, it means the wild growth is being trimmed back to where it should have been in the first place. it doesn't mean ResMods are over-reacting (in these cases), but that they are doing their job.

so, some places that seem inconsistent are actually attempts to be consistent as according to the "forum rules". (granted, there will be some inconsistency as well, but we're truly working towards working as a team instead of a bunch of lone wolves)

-

also, as far as the AR issue goes.. we're discussing that as well. we still have to hear from the majority of ResMods in a thread directed at this issue, but so far those who have responded are of the same mind as the rest of the community. we don't think it's quite right either and would rather not see the names of those who send in an AR. hopefully there will be a quick response to this and everyone can go back to feeling free to AR whenever they feel it necessary.

StoneSelf, i think some threads that are being shut down that are of the topic mentioned might be due to other factors. whether it's because they end up spinning into Off Topic or due to personal attacks or inciting some level of discomfort.. these could all be reasons for any actions taken. i'm not positive about these as i don't know what's been happening today.. i just got back from a very long day and haven't had the chance to get here until just recently.
i could be wrong on this topic.. and i'm going to try to keep abreast of the situation and see if i can see any pattern, fair or unfair, and act accordingly.

I cant honestly believe you believe that Cybin.....and exactly what rules are being enforced? LL has never actually layed down any real rules except don't harrass or attack others....otherwise they have never bothered to let anyone know what criteria is used.

...

That's all well and good, but the two most notorious thread movings contained none of the above.

Is there anything in a posting that indicates whether a person is a mod or not?

I'd say my biggest gripe about it is that I just have never felt it's really needed. I've never been one who thought the forums needed more moderation. It's ironic that an attempt at adding more moderation results in more complaints than what's being moderated. At least there's a certain amount of humor value in that.

I could not agree more. Well maybe, but it would be uncomfortable.

Just to be picky.

The only wording I have ever seen on the nude rule is "no full frontal nudity." While that is interpreted by many to mean "no nudity," technically it only refers to pictures of genitalia and pubic regions and only from the front. It's a motion picture censorship term that means exactly that and nothing more.

Most people self-censor in the forums (abhorrent to me), and cover up or pixelate out even nipples or shots of a bare posterior, but in fact "full frontal nudity" refers only to the "final frontier" (sort of speak) of nudity taboos.

I guess I shouldn't have said anything as I am sure someone with now prudishly change the wording to include any nudity at all, but it just goes to show you how variable the interpretation of standards can be and how loose some peoples understanding is of what is and isn't allowed.

Regardless of that issue I always find it amusing that something that is not illegal for "real" people to do (bare breasts) in a public place, is "illegal" for a pixelated representation of a person to do in a private forum for adults only (or in world in a PG area for that matter).

Who are we protecting here?

Funny I would not have said it quite that way but I had a similar reaction to one name on the list and since the person I am thinking of is not in any way FIC, I am pretty sure that it's not the same person. so there are two people of this calibre that were chosen?

"Them" thats who's being protected - its always 'them' - some other group that 'may' get offended - but never the person themselves - its someone looking out for 'those who may wander upon it and be offended'...

lol.. gotta love P.C.

Yeah, even hall monitors have to wear a sash! I can't be expected to remember who all the snit... uh, moderators are.