what are your gripes about the new resmod system?

My gripe is that I haven't complained about this issue much at all yet.

We are protecting the CHILDREN from BOOBIES!!!! (yes, we in the US are not used to the flagrant use of those obscene NEKKID statues those people have over there in Europe)

Well, I hope the bolded part isn't true. Some people's mere existance incites some level of discomfort. So does anybody's ideas that aren't majority ideas, yes?

As for the profanity, I wish there weren't any. It adds a level of aggression that's not needed. Plus I thought these were supposed to be PG forums.

coco

This is starting to weird me out you know, because I kind of thought that res-mods would be a good idea at first and that most people were just being unduly negative, but I'm just not so sure anymore.

Cybin is also one of the people that I would have had absolutely no reservations about being chosen to be a mod, but some of the things he is saying here kind of scare me.

"Level of discomfort?" That just sounds like nanny talk to me. "Discomfort" should have nothing to do with it. We shouldn't be banning threads because someone speech makes us "uncomfortable" should we?

Also, while I can respect your opinion about profanity I don't agree with it at all, in fact it strikes me the same way as the "level of discomfort" thing seemed to strike you. Who is anyone to say what kind of words I can use, if I am not being racist or using them in any other overt way that would break the rules in general?

There is also Adam Zaius's quoting of Jeska saying something to the effect of a thread being deleted because it had "nothing constructive" on it?

Somehow we have degenerated from posts only being unacceptable if they hurt or offend someone to the level of thinking that they also must be "constructive" and not make anyone "uncomfortable"???

Exactly how and when did that happen??

The more I think about it, the more my opinion is shifting towards the idea that this kind of moderation can only lead to less consistency, more arbitrary-ness, and a great deal of confusion. It also seems to be leading us into a territory where only the most bland and sanitised statements will eventually pass muster.

I dunno, but I asked this too.

Some resmods are saying "these were the rules all along, they're just being enforced now". When or where was a rule stated that "meta-discussions" were not allowed in the General section? Can I get a link please?

Meh. Some of the resmods have had exchanges on these forums with other other residents that were NOT constructive, and, in fact, quite acrid. Now we're supposed to belive that they have suddenly become impartial bastions of justice, who know what's right for the forums simply because they were chosen?

I would also point out that Jeska should rein in the resmods from defending criticism, because they seem to only be shooting themselves in the foot with the statements like "discomfort". That's WAY to open to personal interpretation for my liking.

And what of previous feuds that some of these resmods have been involved in with other residents? Were they given a memory wipe of all that?

I can think of one in particular, who had protracted arguments with another resident, and even though my beliefs about the issue at that were in alignment with said resmod; will that person they were fighting with get a fair shake from them? I have my doubts.

Well, *I'm* the PG nut here, and am not doing anything different.

Sure, I'll admit this may eventually clarify some of the TOS/CS policies. It would be nice to have a 'blue room' section or demarcating some places as Mature (an Uru Shard forum I know of has one, which you have to figure out how to get into). I may even 'peek' in from time to time!

Perhaps it would also help to suggest changing sub-forums (like off-topic) so they *don't* affect your post count? :hides:

CoCo's point about the linking suspensions/bans between the two environments may have some validity now; We're still trying to get the immediate things figured out. I appreciate the example BTW, and have taken note of it.

I appreciate Amiee and others' comments toward those whom actually volunteered. Some of the general comments have been worrying me, to say the least.

Dianne: I understand that concern. One of the main things stated in the opening message to me was to carry on as normal. So I have. *shrug* So what if I have such powers? *My* main weapon now is to post, and remind to get folks back on track; Or just provide the example by posting, nothing more, nothing less...

G'morn... I'd just like to highlight something Wayfinder pointed out:



It exists! It's detailed as:



Emphasis mine.

In context here.

So yes, like the Radiohead song, "Everything in Its Right Place".

Perhaps my reference to FIC was too glib and mybe we need a new acronym ..."FOL" representing the status of "Friend of Linden" which more accurately describes my thought regarding this particular member.

The nastiness of this member in past numerous posts was so glaring and aggregious that I bet we have the same person in mind. I wonder how this person either escaped TOS sanctions in the past and thus was eligible for the resmod slot, or how this member made the cut if a sanction had been issued. This new resmod has already posted with profamity in what is supposed to be a PG forum. So Jeska/Jesse/Robin et all...is it possibile to report a bad post by a resmod and who would review it...and did you bother to check past posts made by selected resmods?

Lets call the program "FOLly RES MOD" slots. Don't get me wrong, not all fall into that category, but there are a few names on the list that really dont use the forums that much, and one who has abused it, the posting rules and other members openly.

So much for specified criteria...no wonder people get confused and a bit disgusted. Maybe more than a bit.

My biggest gripe is that I've only been here a few months and don't know that many people but I certainly don't know any of the Mods so....Let the bribes begin, I accept all LL with humble appreciation and the bigger the LL the more appreciated you will be

ok, let me take a deep breath here...

..

alright, let me address some concerns here.

Talen, you're right. i don't believe this is definitely the case across the board. however, i do think that some actions may look extraneous when in actuality it's just a ResMod trying to help the forums adhere to the rules. the rules i'm referring to could be any of them, but mostly trying to help keep threads in their proper places (which is just getting really messy and i'm finding that some definitions of some of the forums need a serious re-working), now more actively pursuing instances of profanity (funny, i've got George Carlin on TV right now), trying to properly identify the more ethereal infractions like harassment, name-calling, trolling, etc..
what i was trying to say is that the criteria that have been in place all along now have a whole group of ResMods helping Jeska, who could never take care of every single infraction on her own. what should be kept in mind along with that is the fact that ResMods are still trying to work collectively and more consistantly and as such there will be aberrations that don't make sense or come off as too far-reaching, where it's simply a matter of ResMods trying to find their place in a job that has our collective heads spinning with what to do and how to do it.

Nolan, true enough. i thnk.. i know one of the threads you're talking about, but is the other one about what happened to this place? if not, then which one was it again? but that comment was made in referrance to the forums in general. they were also topics at the forefront of discussion in the ResMod forum, so i had it on my brain. it wasn't just a possible explanation of actions already taken, but of possible future actions.
..and as far as "meta-discussions" go.. i hear you. i always thought they were better served in General and Jeska mentioned that it's been a matter of what she's done historically.. but i don't think there is any clear-cut ruling on it. (it IS something we're discussing now because of this with a few possible solutions)

Gabe, we're working on some ideas for letting people know when a post is made from a ResMod point of action as opposed to a Resis based post. so far, my favorite is a checkbox that will result in an icon showing it was a ResMod action.

Dianne, i was'nt aware of the "frontal nudity" clause and had (apparently wrongly) assumed it meant nudity in any form. i'll have to look into it further. (side note, i haven't acted with my "powers" to any instance of such, although i have posted a link to one instance questioning whether it should be left alone or if the post should be edited to remove the picture in question or if it should be left alone, at the same time positing that the thread itself should most definitely be left intact.

Siggy, right on.. i'm not a huge fan of PC myself. etiquette, yes.. PC, no.

CocoCo and Dianne, "level of discomfort" was just a shorter way to list the rest of what can be ruled as an infraction according to TOS/CS. i assure you, ResMods flitting about censoring things according to their own biases is NOT what i'm condoning.. which, again, is why we're working to try to come to decision more intelligently with input from other ResMods and Jeska ebfore taking action on something that isn't blatantly clear.
Jeska's use of "nothing constructive" is nothing new either.. i've seen her use that reason for closing a thread for a long time now. not that i agree with it usually (i'd be more likely to just move such a thing to Off Topic), but it's not related to this new endeavor.
i sincerely hope that the new ResMod program and the attempted adherences to the rules doesn't result in more sanitized forums, although i fear we will see some setbacks to what we're used to being able to freely express. i intend to do what i can to prevent things from getting out of control. trust me.. i'm on your side with this one. even though technically profanity is clearly defined as an infraction, i think we need a redefining of the forums in some of these areas.. until then i will act as i must. but don't think that means i'm going to go reporting every curse word i find. i will act upon profanity that is meant to do an other harm though, usually by providing a link in the ResMod forum to discuss the thread in question before any action is taken.)

-

thank you all for voicing these concerns!! it is helping me to better function as a Resident Moderator. my goal is simply to help nip some obvious problems in the bud when they arise and to encourage positive discourse, which includes much more than just SL relelvant material. we need a healthy mix of debate, humor, intelligent Off Topic discourse.. just every facet we're used to now, but helping to keep it from getting out of hand where i can.

Ps - my head may not have been in the best place before, i was dealing with a few RL issues that may have distracted me from wording myself better. (i was arrested for non-payment of child support and spent several hours in a holding cell, then i was on the phone with my girlfriend (who lives in California) consoling her while she was lying in a hospital bed) that being said, i will never use ResMod powers of any kind if i'm not completely attentive to what i'm doing.

I'm sorry you have to go thru this. I had a similar situation, in Michigan they have FOC (friend of the court) who I wnet to and let them know I had visitation but my ex wouldn't tell me where they were. I ended up getting the address to where my daughter was and my visitation back, also when I fly my duaghter from CA to MI she has to pay half the expenses and I don't have to pay child support while she stays with me during the summers. I put that money in her college fund.

Basically try the courts, you do have rights in this

I meant historically, not recently.

i meant this comment, not the latter that i was also commenting on.

and yes, historic actions compared to recent do have a certain amount of fluctuation. i'm just not sure if it's fluxing more towards inconsistency or towards a more defined adherence to forum rules.. or towards a refined set for that matter.

whatever it is, we'll be in a state of "rock tumbling" (as Torley put it) for a little while yet. then again, we usually are in one way or another anyway.

To me, that is the one good thing in this whole sorry mess.

Those aware, interested and active players are just the ones I wouldn't like to see in a position of authority over the forums. The position itself involves hard and tedious work, and people who volunteer for it tend to do so for the following reasons: (a) they enjoy what they see as the prestige of the position and (b) they enjoy wielding power over their fellow residents. Of course, there are also those who apply out of altruistic motives, but I would suggest they are very much in a minority.

So the selection of the unqualified, uninterested and even unaware players is the best possible course, IMO.

The comments made by katikiwi and Coconut are very serious and demand a response.

Could we have one from the Lindens, please?

No, despite banging that drum for the last year or so.



Go to a PG movie today. There is profanity out the wazoo.

I would suggest that they are not near as much a minotiry as you think. The majority of these forums are basicly very good people. We get a little fiesty at times, but there's almost nobody on these forums (Of the "interested, active, informed" crowd that is, not counting fly-by-night griefers and the like) that I think are truely power-crazy or similar.



The Peter Principle blows as in the Real World too. Lets not start applying it to Second Life.

Until we get this report post situation ironed out (the ResMods are trying to get it so we don't see the name or don't get the report at all), I would suggest that if you have an issue with a ResMod, PM Jeska directly. I know she stated somewhere after the ResMods started, that anyone is still welcome to PM her directly with issues.

I don't have any gripes about the resmod system, probably because I'm too dull to be reported. But I wanted to say that in several cases I've seen before where moderation was shifted to active posters, it was because the forum operators themselves wanted out of the burden of maintaining the forums after they grew considerably. Not to address certain problems or create a certain environment, but simply to avoid the work. Which seems understandable to me. And by that standard, the resmod system seems likely to be a success for as long as they can find resmods.

LL announced that if your banned from the forums you can be banned IW.

In short a resident losing their L$, linden land, inventory, and IW contacts; friends/business/network/lovers.

LL announced Res Mods. These Res Mods will have the right to call posts/posters into question which could lead to IW suspension/banning from SL.

I find that very unnerving. There are a lot of scenarios of what could happn. We all hope they won't. Given the history of consistency in these forums; I do not see if a mistake was made. That error being rectified or retracted.

The results could have far reaching affects depending on how vested a person has been IW. Be it land, products, social/business network.

I think LL needs to tread very lightly here. The long arm of their law should only stretch so far. That when the residents start fearing their actions or reactions to words. Is when we reach a point of this is how it is; deal with it or leave. We have then in fact reached a critical breaking point.

I ask that LL consider how much power they are willing to give some residents. More so I ask that they think about the over all ramifications and end results. Of those they have chosen to put in a position of power.

It is my opinion that this is a two fold whammy for enforcement of rules. #1 Step out of line loose everything IW. #2 Step out of line with a Res Mod (who may or may not have a negative past with you already) and loose everything IW. #1 and #2 are coupled with the fact that the rules are not defined for all nor are they consistent for all. In the end the only accomplishment I see is the feeling of ill will and subscribers leaving. I find nothing positive about that.

I understand the forums are very large and hard to maintain. Yes that is a problem. Discussion forums for SL in my opinion could be a lot more productive. Posting pictures of pie etc. to a once productive discussion does nothing but, derail discussion threads. As do other things.

Until we reach a point where the rules for a meaningful discussion are posted publicly and enforced all threads can be considered off topic. Perhaps the Res Mods could be in charge of cleaning up the fourms and sorting. Leaving any RL actions up to the existing mods. There must however also be a clear set of rules for the Res Mods. Make it clear to them that breaking those rules could affect their status in SL just as their actions against other residents could be affected. A system of moderating the moderators.

I would think it would be much easier to just hire more employees, and the consistency factor should go up from there.

Cat

The idea of the "reluctant leader" can sound really appealing. The problem is that the threat of losing Resident Moderator status is the only thing the Lindens can use to keep Resmods from abusing their privileges. It's not much of a bite to somebody who didn't want the privileges to begin with!

Also with a two week rotation period the time for training is short making some prior experience with SL's forums necessary, or at least some enthusiasm to learn!

Both of these problems would be a small price to pay in exchange for incorruptible forum mods. But I never really bought into the incorrupibility of the "reluctant leader" to begin with.

I would feel much more comfortable with this as well.

everybody has the right to call posts/posters into question. it doesn't matter if it comes from a ResMod or not, either way it will be looked in to. if there is a problem, it will be dealt with. if not, then there is nothing to worry about. basically, if someone is doing something completely wrong, then they will eventually have to deal with the consequences. if someone who isn't doing something wrong is reported, i would hope that no actions would be taken. both of these scenarios don't matter who the report is coming from.. this isn't a special ability given to ResMods.. we all have the ability to point to problems or injustices.




agreed. regardless of the reasons, if the community starts to feel like big brother is watching and any slight aberration in behaviour could lead to a complete revocation of residence and forfeiture of property, etc., then ye.. we would have entered into a dark place indeed. whether during my "tenure" as a ResMod or after, i will always do what i can to help prevent any such thing from happening.




two things here.. as for rules about forums discussions, as has been mentioned elsewhere, this is being actively pursued and the ResMods are working with Jeska to try to better define exactly what is proper/improper conduct on the forums for both posts and ResMods. none of us are taking this job lightly, not that i've seen anyhow. rest assured, it may be a bumpy ride for now, but we're doing our best to find a nice straight, smooth lane to head down.

second, as far as ResMods being held accountable, w're held to regular Forum Guidelines, the Community Standards AND a set of ResMod guidelines which further define our position and specific rules for us to follow.
let me provide this quote from the ResMod guidelines to address the concern of ResMod discipline:


oh and.. this part..


can i volunteer?

You betcha....ummm no wait...Jeska is the one who ignored the past offending posts by this resmod...hmmm.... ... RES IPSA LOQUITOR!!!!!!!!

Anyone know latin?

Let me give my answer to this one... YES!

If you quit your current job, go interview with Linden Lab and they decide you are qualified, and you negotiate a yearly salary which you will then depend on for your livelihood, and you sign your contracts, the NDAs, and all the other tax forms etc. and you become Cybin Linden ... then YES! I would feel very comfortable with you moderating these forums.