proposed proposal: 1503 Again

[EDIT FOR UPDATE: The proposition has now been created and is Prop Number 1523. Rest of this post remains unchanged]

The lindens have "Acknowledged" Prop 1503 with a message making it quite clear that they actually have no intention of actually doing what the voting masses (3039 votes/428 voters) have demanded of them.

Until the promised "improved features for controlling griefing" are actually implemented correctly, there and working, I think we need to do the prop again.

My planned wording is:


I haven't created the Prop entry itself yet - I'll let people have a chance to chip in on the idea and wording first. I'll probably be forming the prop in a couple of hours - I apologise that this means a lot of US SLers won't get to respond here before that happens, but that's just the nature of timezone differences!

I see these words at the bottom of the page and have to think that LL has some grand master plan, and aren't flying by the seat of their pants:

Let's have hope.

This feature is acknowledged for development by Linden.

Those magic words just mean someone's told the voting system to mark 1503 as "acknowledged" - not that they're actually going to do what they're told. The linked blog post seems to say that they're not going to return to the old signup system, and are just promising some better features to be delivered at some point in the future. There's plenty of support for "better anti-grief tools" props - that's not what 1503 was about.

Until those better features are finished and have general support, the old sign-up system should be reinstated.

Ahh.. thats what i get for not using the feature voting system enough..


For christ sakes, this is the very definition of getting the cart before the horse..

We will be voting. This is a big and important issue, which left ignored and free-for-all threatens the entire future and usefulness of Second Life.



Lewis

OK, the new prop is now posted: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=1523
("REALLY return to previous signup system"

It is rather forthright in its wording, but given how brutally the previous one got disregarded, I feel it's quite justified.

OOOO I got my votes back due to the acknowledgment of the Lindens that we voted. Now we get to do it all over again.

I am also thinking a protest at the welcome gate or the Birthday Party with a bunch of Signs that say we want protection might actually be productive and interesting. Call it a group meeting and protest. We can discuss this issue in SL where we should. The Impeach Bush protest was felt to be allowable so a 1503/23 one should.

Friday June 23rd at say 2pm - 4pm while the Brass are back patting.
Could all show up to the event supporting Flags or TShirts with 1503/23 on it.

==================
June 23
2PM-3PM - Speech - Philip Linden, centre stage, third birthday celebration site.
3PM-4PM - Speech - Robin Linden, centre stage, third birthday celebration site.

Agreed 100% Buxton -- what really angers me is that I felt Robin was spewing corporate-speak from such a high level it completely lost touch with reality and the issues. A reputation system??? Quick! Someone name ONE MMOG reputation system that has EVER worked?

*pounds forehead on keyboard*

They take the safety net out of SL, remove all foundation of trust in world, then ponder the fact that trust is harder to build now, that we have a group of new people who don't give a flying fuck for SecondLife's future, and they want to build a REPUTATION SYSTEM!?

Earth to Linden Labs!

*rubs forehead where it hurts*

EDIT: Jamie, if I'm home in time, I am THERE with you... provided the sim isn't full. And provided griefers don't frag the place. Wouldn't that be ironic?

Giving it more thought I think we should show up at the party all supporting 1503/23 Signs and TShirts. SAY NOTHING. Not a peep. No clapping. No cheering. No heckling. No Comments. Nothing. TOTAL SILENCE. We understand how it feels to be on the recieving end. Lets try dishing out some. I for one will be there early enough to get a front row seat.

Few screaming fans unless that is they want to announce that it was all a bad mistake and all accounts created since 666 will be terminated until verification is given.

Even better would be to return it today and let us all forget this sorry affair and enjoy the Birthday as a celebration of our strong community and the wonders of what can and is done.

I for one am spending far too much time in the Forums trying to find out what is going on rather than building, creating and welcoming people.

----------------------------------------------------------------

On another note that I found in the "Second Life Answers" Forum which will most likely be lost. /139/eb/115673/1.html



We talked about this but since the great insight about the new giefing controls it sort has been forgotten. Ban a user/griefer and they back 2 min later. So what use are the controls anyway? I hope that there is an answer.

They're not dogs, they don't have to do "what they're told."

Open Enrollment is here to stay, folks. You've lost this one.

I think you should all create alts for the protest, with some derivation of Prop1503 in the first name.

We're not dogs either. We dont have to sit and stay and be quiet. We are their CUSTOMERS. We make their business. Without us, they've got a bunch of hardware and no one using it.

Any good business person knows that the only way to succeed is to pay attention to what the customers want. The majority of LL's customers want to feel comfortable in assuming the person they meet in game is of legal age. They want to feel comfortable in assuming that the person who just committed a crime against them in game is trackable and truly bannable. They want to feel safe in thier virtual world.

LL "acknowledgement" of prop 1503 was no acknowledgement at all. It was a clear message of "shut up already". That is not acceptable. We asked them to go back to the old registration method in order to prevent teenagers from entering the main grid and to hold people accountable for their actions... and their response was, dont worry we'll give you extra anti griefing tools at some point in the distant future. Their answer had no relation to the question!

It is definately not time to just accept defeat. It is time instead to let them know their answer is not acceptable to us and we won't be told to shut up.

I think Jamie had a great idea. I will be there at 2pm if not before. I will not applaud, I will not shout, I will cause no conflict but I will give no kudos either. I will simply sit in silence making my presence known. If anyone needs T-shirts and signs, I'll have plenty to give out.

Generally, I would agree with you. However, they Acknowledged on Prop 1503 and then in the same breath said they weren't going to actually do it. It's not quite so much "not doing what they're told", as it is "agreeing to do something, and refusing to do it".

In the language of the Feature Vote tool (according to the tooltip text on the little Ack logo), an Acknowledged item is "an item we are exploring how to implement" - begging off and promising some better anti-grief tools to be delivered at an unstated later date is NOT working towards putting the old signup system back.

People should keep an eye out for any Media Types at the birthday bash - try to "get in to" as much Main-Stream Media coverage of the Birthday Stuff as possible, if we notice any going on. I'll think about pestering news sites (Wired, etc.) this evening.

Cute idea but I'd say no more alts. One of the excuses LL is using to say nothing is really wrong here is that the amount of extra griefing and problems people are seeing isn't really that big when compared to the population. Basically they're saying crime has gone up a bit but its still low in proportion to the population.

In other words there are so many accounts created just for fun and never used again that LL is able to get away with skewing the numbers. Lets not give them that argument. No more joke accounts, even if it is kinda fun and tempting.

Drop me a set, and I'll do my best to be there.

Solidarność !

-- Tengu

Here is image for shirt. Upload and wear. image is 512 by 512

LOL, It's make a proposition day.

here is mine... At least it's do-able in the way LL thinks and benfits both customers and LL.

I don't understand how that's going to do anything. If you have a store, you have people dropping in and buying at all times. There is no way to know who is going to want to buy and create a list of allowed people. No one would ever use a feature like that.

And no offense, please but doesn't have any thing to do with what this thread is about..LL's refusal to verify the age's and identities of their customers.

And actually it wouldn't stop this management scam that is going around. My understand was that in some cases the so called "manager" took his mark off the land to conduct the transaction. (though why anyone followed him I can't imagine)

In my situation the woman I caught in my store photographing my boxes is likely planning to use them in some "yard sale" type scam. Your proposal while thoughtful, wouldn't have had any effect in these situations.

Sorry to confuse you, that isn't an allow list. It's a land tool option that blocks outsider transanctions. Ie. those not done between owner/group and customer. Similar to other existing land tool options like block outside script, block build. There is not going to be a list created. See discussion on feature forum.

Here is the primary idea discussion on this : /108/fd/114913/1.html

This was thought out to combat exactly the type of management scam and others we've seen recently.

What this does is, when the Land has "block outside transactions" enabled. It would do the following:

1. When customer is on that land, it would only allow transactions (money) between customer and owner of land or group land is set to.

2. When customer is on land, it would block any transacations between the customer and anyone not associated with the land.

Things this would combat:

1. Mangement scam, If either party is on that given land, the transaction would fail.

2. Any sort of scam which involves placing things in front of objects (currently done by using return timer and block build -- which doesnt help customers that much).

I can see the way LL was thinking when they opened the game like that. They understand the game is global, and there is no efficent way to do verification with an open game. Restricting the game just bars entry to legit people who are not scammers (yes there is such a thing that newbies are actually here to play and enjoy SL).

Now, I too am quiet displeased by the way it was done and I feel, content providers and the general userbase SHOULD have been given better protection before they lifted the registration restrictions. LL should have given us better control and protection over our ingame IP and better protection against griefers before this system was made open. The existing AR system was totally inadequate to handle ToS violations.

In regard to the previously discussed Mangement scam, they were all done by people born before 6/6/6.

Hope that cleared the confusion.

Just what I got done saying in another thread.

I like Jamie's idea, too; count me in.

coco

If the sim is full, let's take it to neighboring sims. Fill them, too.

coco

Ok yes that did clear it up for me a lot. I can see your point. If I were able to set the land so that customers could pay the boxes owned by the land owner or set to the land owning group (group would be important in many cases) but that no other transactions could take place, that would be a nice way to be able to protect my customers.

And yes you're right that management scam was done by people born before 6/6/6 but I feel (my opinion) that we are seeing more of these things because the people know that if they get themselves banned it's not going to matter, they'll be able to just come right back.

Anyway, griefing is one reason, underage players is another reason, but verifying identity is still, I feel of utmost importance. Of course CC checks are not the be all and end all, there are loopholes and issues, but at least it was SOMETHING.

I went and looked to be prepared and get a landmark. The talk is in the middle of 4 sims so should be able to handle 200+ people. Be warned it is going to be lag city they are loaded with prims.

At 4:10 pm tomorrow or any time after. Please Cancel any post 666 unverified alt you have. Log on to the web page as your alt and go through the cancelation process.

There is a very nice form where you can tell the Lindens why you are leaving. They really want us to hold the accounts, no reason for leaving, please stay SL is free.

It is not a good citizen of SL to use extra space so Return Alts Home on their birthday at 4:10 pm or after. Return all unverified alts made as a joke, testing, as a giggle. Return them home for the party. Lets make the population of Sl a little more realistic.

I think your ideas have some merit, Wrom. But again, let's encourage LL to do the groundwork before jumping into this.

Specifically, it would be nice if there were more layers to the perms system. Right now many vendors have taken to selling things copy/no-trans in order to prevent yard sale scams. This makes it very difficult for customers to buy gifts for other people.

If I take a friend to a store to buy a no-transfer skin, for example, I have to pay them outside of the store before we enter. It'd be much nicer if vendors had a convenient way to take payment and deliver the item to a 3rd party (Moopf has a vendor that does this now).

Jamie, can you please send me the landmark in world? If you forget, don't worry, I'll IM you to jog your memory I'm making plans to leave work early tomorrow night so I can attend.