Content Creator Union

sign me up!

i have an important question, though:

will this union be operating under some misguided notion that it is in direct competition with land traders?

if so, i want to offer the following as our motto:

"waah! johny got ice cream!"

hiro, on the health care front you really need scale and you're probably better off going with an existing organization that covers your areas of expertise... the graphic artist guild offers it I believe... not sure if IEEE does... Working Today does for freelancers although this may only be for New York State... they were trying to expand beyond new york though

it is true that one of the biggest issues at the graphic artists guild is IP law, and I think much of their money goes towards lobbying on this issue, as well as towards education on tactics and risks to their member base

Health care in SL?

Uhm... Hiro... are you OK?

P2

IEEE does, a friend and colleague of mine went that route, but he said it was expensive.

I'm not sure if IGDA does, but I will find out when I attend my first local meeting. (Which I'll be bringing this up, for sure.)


/nod

I would not be surprised also if a "SL Developers Guild" wind up being segmented into logical areas - scripting, graphic artists, 3-D builders, animators ... could even subdivide further as things scale - graphic artists could have a sub-guild that deals just with clothing design, etc.

I don't think it should called a Union, but rather a guild or a business association. But that is a minor point.
The intent is to band together as one voice and be listend to be LL, that would mean we would have to make a list of subjects that the guild will adress and watch over. Hiro made a nice start of it.



I think negotiating health care, for a group that is spread over the whole world will be almost impossible, the other points seem more in scope what could be achieved.

But the thing is, i don't think the guild will ever have any power to really force something from LL. We can't shutdown the factory, because there is non, a strike will only hurt the strikers, other creators will just replace them. Offcourse the suggestion that the action/strike will be precisely timed with a LL Media event, sounds good. But that isn't any better then a griefer attack. It would mean the guild would have to wait on action untill such a media event happens, i would like to think action comes whenever it is needed. But if this is the only way, i just don't know. But i disgress, such a action is only a last resort.

Any group that would be in support of creators and the future of SL, will have my support.
Looking forward to what happens.

Fuck the Herald. If they were printing newspapers in real life, they would be running that story about Bill Clinton shaking hands with aliens, or Hitler flying to Pakistan to help Osama bin Laden. Or Bat Boy.

I would have serious reservations about joining a union. Generally I strongly dislike bureaucracies, hierarchies and politics. I don't like the idea of a strike because I believe it will only hurt content creators within the union in the long run. And if it was done during major media exposure as suggested it will mean decreased new user growth for SL which is like shooting ourselves in the foot. Also a union has the potential to stratify / divide creators even more. Some people may not want to join and if the union becomes a dominant voice the independant voice is even less likely to be heard.

It is an interesting idea but I would need to know more about how it would all work before I would consider joining. A group that pools resources, creative techniques, business and legal knowledge sounds great, but if its more about strikes, boycotts and lobbying politics you can count me out.

Yes, you put it much better then i can.

I am for it, mostly. It's a very shakey concept, so many ramifications possible. I'd support it, yes, but cautiously so, cuz it seems to me like it would be one very big balancing act. But at the same time, I think it's needed. I see the people that make SL what it is on the non-social side (content creators) get stepped on way too much. So...

d(^-^)b

Count me in

This is a content *creation* union under discussion, not a content *theft* union. Not sure how much use you'd get out of it.

Excuse me? I'm a member of the Content Creator population of SecondLife. As such, I deserve a place in the union.

Changing the price from zero to some outrageous number on content you didn't make, hardly constitutes creation.

Please refrain from personal attacks. This thread is interesting enough that people shouldn't deliberately try to get it locked.

Just making an observation, 'ere, ol' Rick, not trying to get anyone into a kerfluffle.

I'm sure all of us interested will step lightly until there are set details. This of course is a thread that was started to find out how people feel about the idea. I am for this as I stated earlier but I wouldn't be strike happy and neither would Aimee from everything she's said thus far. I've seen a lot of comments like "go ahead and strike there are plenty of people willing to take your place".

I am not stupid enough to think that my place in the designing world is THAT valuable but I do think we need to help each other. I'll be anxious to see what this group or "Union" will be all about.

A bunch of questions. I will answer them as best I can...



That's a great thought. This thread is just a first step, the details will have to be ironed out including the name. If we move forward on this, I would very much value your advice and assistance.



These are important questions. I think the answer would lie in a well written charter. My vision of this organization would not include any such superiors or inferiors nor would it have such an intrusive place in our Second Lives on a day-to-day basis. But if you are asking me "how can you prevent an organization from ever becoming corrupt." I don't think anybody alive has that answer.



I am VERY serious. Also it would not be in the best interest of this union to get the Lindens to reverse their decision on the telehub buyout as that precedent is pivotal in securing our own reparations for the significant losses we have endured and are likely to endure in the future. Hurting landowners does not help Content Creators and will therefore never be a goal of the Content Creator Union.



I did mention dues but I am not entirely sure they would be necessary. If no union action is taking place, such as a media campaign, or an attorney consultation, I really don't see any reason to collect regular dues. But if we DO vote on a decision that costs money, those costs should be spread out among all members in an equitable fashion. If you can't pay, I am sure arrangements could be made. In the long run your support would be more valuable to us than your money.



Torrid just answered this brilliantly but I will add my 2 cents too. Despite my efforts emphasize how unlikely a strike would be, it still receives a disproportionate amount of focus in this discussion (I assume because the idea sounds exciting or scary.) But I will restate ... the Strike option, is the absolute last report. Since I have been playing Second Life, I have yet to see a Linden policy that would have warranted a strike and I doubt the day will come when it ever happens. However this Union should never discard the Strike option entirely. We will keep it in that box that says "in case of emergency, break glass."

Also, Union actions will be well conceived to maximize the benefits for Content Creators, NOT hurt them. Several people have made arguments that "if you do such-and-such, it will hurt the Content Creators more than anybody else." If that be the case ... then we won't DO that!



Sometimes this job really does get me hot.

I think it keeps getting brought up because it is the only leverage a Union would have, and even then it wouldn't even put a tiny dent in LL coffers. To put it bluntly, why would LL give a shit about a content creators union?

You may right, but my experience has shown that Linden Lab really does tend to the "squeeky wheel." I'm not ready to dismiss the effectiveness of organized e-mail writing campaigns or media campaigns.

While some of Linden Lab's public relations moves have been, shall we say, baffling, I do think they care about their public image. Content Creators, as a group, are very creative and imaginative and as such hold tremendous power in their ability to influence people! If I were president of a company, having dozens (hundreds?) of highly imaginative, artistic, and creative people working in unison to expose the injustices in my company would be a nightmare. It would certainly encourage me to soften or reduce future injustices.

I'll have to go with "no thanks".

As a semi-small time Content Creator<tm>, I tend to rather remain neutral in these types of situations. Consider it a sort of virtual-social self-preservation.

In the past, as a part of societies or guilds or organisations that have been formed in order to do something similar as this, I have found that politics, bureaucracy, and intentions clashing with other intentions has made it difficult to maintain these groups/unions/clubs/whatever. It's almost as if when things get a bit too serious, things fall apart.

I can't really express a completely informed opinion about this, as I shy away from the A vs B discussions when it comes to Second Life societies(Land Owners/Content Creators/Campers/Casino Owners/Club Owners).

I'm of the opinion that every decision I make in my Second Life is a risk I have to take, so I've nothing to really try and make Linden Lab "stand up and notice". But perhaps that's the result of my slightly jaded experiences in the past 8 years of virtual environments.

Good luck with fleshing this out, it will be interesting to watch, in the least.

i like the notion of a guild/union that focuses a message to LL on key things like policies, features and bug fix priorities...that promotes mature discourse and education on IP issues, etc I would participate in something like that...

I would have a hard time participating in anything that made reparations a cornerstone of its raison d'etre.

A content creator guild should push progress of SL, not fight for things that will promote stagnation.

A forward thinking guild would lobby for technological advances that might even hurt the business of a few of its members.

Which raises an important question for your eventual policy making: How do you make LL responsible for things you deem its mistakes when it passes those costs on to the community (including reparations)?

You'll just end up suppressing voices you don't like and begin kicking out/banning people. Sounds like the beginnings of a mafia, and we already have plenty of those in SL! I vote no.

I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly. The biggest thing I'd like to see is a return to the days when competition was secondary to support. Creators all tended to cheer each other on, offer help, advice, and encouragement to each other, and basically just look out for each other. That still happens, but not to the degree it used to. Isn't creating what it's all about rather than what we're given in return for it? I think our future turns more on LL's ability to offer flexible and robust tools than in any ability we as creators might gain to sway LL through pressure or politics. We need them as partners in this process, not adversaries. Once a relationship becomes adversarial it's very difficult to change it.

When it comes to land owners having more sway (if indeed that's the case)... well don't hit me for saying it, but they should have more sway. They're the ones paying the bills after all. If Anshe gets special treatment because she spends a couple grand on SL every month, I say "great!" That's as it should be. I wouldn't expect to get exactly the same treatment as someone who spends 20 times as much as I do. I'll go even further and say that I think LL would be negligent if they didn't go the extra mile for their biggest investors. I know people bristled at Anshe's "stakeholder" line of reasoning, but she did have a point. I believe LL is smart enough to know they have to balance the intrests of someone like Anshe with those of all the other demographics and interest groups.

We may not always agree with or understand LL decisions, but I doubt you'll ever find a consensus among content creators, land owners, or any other group about any issue. It seems slightly naive to believe a union would automatically give content creators a unified voice. I agree with Forseti that it would be just as likely to end up stifling voices within the union that don't agree with the party line. It's also likely to create division between those that are in the union and those that aren't, even if the union had the best intentions of looking out for the interests of all content creators and not just members.

If you do go forward with this union, I hope that you'll tread carefully and be mindful that you have the potential to do as much harm as good.

I agree whole-heartedly. Linden Lab's selective reparations is the issue at hand and the motivating factor for the formation of this Union, but it's hardly the only issue to ever be tackled.

And this statement is nothing short of beautiful. (SO beautiful I will bold it.)

Ridiculous. I'd love to be a member of the Content Creators Union. Sounds like a Great Idea to me and I want to be a part of history.