Teen Grid - Is it what Linden Lab promised?

If you were convinced that there would never be even a chance that he would be subjected to seeing a pair of boobies or a lesbian kiss, then you were being naive. There is no way the Lindens could guarantee that.


I find it hard to believe they forced you to put your son into teen SL. They don't have that kind of power.


I don't understand what's stopping you from monitoring your son yourself. Just as you would any other activity. Stand over his shoulder while he's playing, check his chat history if you don't trust him, etc.


I really don't know what you expect the Lindens to do. It's just not feasible for teen SL to be a full babysitting service where they are watching over everything that happens. If you feel the grid is not safe why not just pull your own kid out and buy him a baseball glove or something?

I'll give you that. But COPA only applies to HTML communications. It's not relevant to this discussion.

So still being slightly steamed about this whole thing, I decide to have a little sit down chat with my son over dinner. I told him about this thread and asked him flat out what he's seen and how much Linden involvement he see's on the teen grid.

From the mouth of babes I guess would be a great line here:

"Mom we see lindens flying around the sandbox. They are supposed to be monitoring bad language but they don't. We had to make blocks with poses that make us look like we are standing up to keep people from pushing us."

Ok so first, don't I feel like a dork that my 14 year old son figured out a way to stop someone from pushing him in the sandbox and I didn't lol. Kudos to him and his friends for such a brilliantly simple solution.

Second, if they cannot even monitor bad language or people with push weapons, some of the most basic forms of abuse to the system, how the hell are they going to go around checking all the textures being uploaded in the game? BZZZZZZZZZZ wrong answer.. they CAN'T.

So again.. I want my son out of the teen grid and on the main grid where I can keep an eye on him myself. He's turning 15 years old and yeah we've done the whole birds and bee's routine. I know what my son can handle and I know how to handle topics that he CAN'T handle.. this whole teen grid situation just feels like I've sent my son off to school and none of the fricken teachers bothered to show up to do their job.

Wow ok i'm still pissed.. guess I'll hold off from posting until I chill a bit.

Please.

Nobody wants children exposed to pedophiles. The question is what we are willing to take away from them in order to keep them safe.

Isn't she at risk from pedophiles every day at school, or when she goes in the front yard to play? Should I keep her inside all of the time?

You should see my daughter's eyes light up when she sees me building in SL. She sits on my lap; we build together. She asks when she can have her own avatar; I have to say that "SL is not for children".

That communication hurts her. Not a lot, but I don't see why you think it is a good thing.

So. I will protect my daughter. Don't try and do my job, particularly if your approach is to lock her away from the world.

Thanks.

edited to remove duplicate material

I never said we should lock her up.

I said children should be protected.

Once again you are taking "well it can happen here, so why bother to try and keep it from happening here" agreement.

I hope there is someone in her life that will take an attive role in keeping her safe.

So read what I say and stop putting words in my mouth.

Wow, you found a loop whole the size of a pin.

LL has a website, you have to use it to sign up, you have to use it to download the softwear, the softwear comunitcates with a server.

I have encountered several kids in the main grid during the time I have been a member. Way back in early 2004 an adult member was reported, and then got into trouble, for giving cyber sex lessons to a 14 year old kid. That member is long gone, well, that account is at any rate.

Another kid that I met when he was 11 in 2004 has been reported to LL many times but since his real life father covered for him by submitting his own ID for age verification when LL demanded it nothing was done about it. He is a nice kid actually but there were times during the past couple of years that the adult content was too much for him and he became frightened. This usually happened when an adult female avatar was sexually aggresive with him, as many female avies in SL seem to be.

Another kid, age 14, became a sex slave pet to an adult female who was the age of his grandmother. I saw her on occasion leading him around on a leash, naked but for some diaper thong thing and a spiked metal collar around his neck. He ended up in the teen grid after that incident.

Interestingly, I have found that the teens I meet in SL often prefer to be in the teen grid where they can know the onethey are messing around with is really another kid and not a sleazy pedophile. Many kids access the adult grid on their parents accounts, and yes, adults do more than look over the shouder of their teens as they romp through teen SL. Teen accounts are used as a front for selling content made by adults.

The walls are fluid and have been. I know one mother who logs off regularly so her minor son can log onto the main grid, in fact, after I helped her get started by buying her a skin, clothes etc when she was new, she sent her teen son to me to beg for free stuff too. He is now in both grids; in the main grid on his mothers female avie and on the teen grid on his own account.

I dont have kids, but it seems in all these cases its the parent who should bear responsibility for their childs activity and not LL. LL is not a babysitter; they are a game provider. GAME. If a parent doesnt want their child exposed to SL then cancel all accounts, including their own, because the kids can get onto the parent's account too.

I'm obviously not that foolish.. I knew damn well that not only is he exposed to this kind of stuff or the potential for it just by logging onto the damn internet that it would be stupid to think that it wouldn't happen on the teen SL grid. There in is my argument.. the Lindens are NOT a babysitting service.. however I am.. its called being a MOM.. so let me do my job and let him play on the same grid as me. I'm more than happy to map him and keep an eye out on his travels or answer any questions he may have.




When I signed him up I was told because of his age, there was NO OTHER OPTION but to put him on the teen grid. Now, I can think of one other option personally.. its called put him on the damn adult grid anyway and say screw you to the lindens. And what happens if he gets caught? we both get banned. Thanks for nothing. So you want to tell me what other options I had other than tell him not to play? I happen to enjoy having my son in the same online games that I'm in. We've done it in other games, I don't understand why we can't do it here.




Apparently you don't have kids or if you do, you don't have them on the internet. If you are not involved with them right up to your eyeballs, you find out very quickly just how fast they get themselves into a world of shit. I do stand over his shoulder, however like most grown adults, we do things called housework, yardwork.. and ohhhh the ever present responsibilities. I wish I could be there to stare at my son and watch every move he makes until the day he moves out.. what a joy that would be for both of us don't you think? OMG what planet are you from? sheesh.




See thats the thing.. as a parent I know what is a reasonable expectation and what isn't. I know when someone tells me "trust us, we'll keep him safe.. we make sure that none of the things you see on the main grid get into this little world, hes IN GOOD HANDS." um yeah i'm sorry but the person who told me that, my first reaction was "ok this woman doesn't have kids of her own.. or is living in la la land on a different oxygen level than what is considered healthy. Kids find trouble.. if they can't find it.. they create it. I'm not here to make sure my son never makes a mistake in his life... i'm here to make sure he learns from them, survives them and learns how to pick himself up and start over when he DOES make a mistake. Are the Lindens going to do that? NO, that would be retarded to think that they would.. however they have a really lovely response to you when you try to explain to them that you would rather do it yourself. its called "NOT IN OUR GAME YOU WONT."

So piss on this.. you've got some good advice there. I'm pulling him from their game (however he already has a baseball glove, two actually). And i'm making it clear to anyone I know with kids that are considering this game for them.. to stay the hell away from it until they actually land on planet reality check.

Bash me all you want.. bottom line is.. he's my son and not yours.. and I will raise him how I damn well please. When companies like this one stop trying to infringe on that right, we'll all be much happier.


PS. just a small beautiful example of parenting and the internet. While doing a check on my son's computer to see where he has been (and yes we do check regularly), we found out that he had been frequenting a site called Pokeyporn. Apparently its pokemon pornography.. which from an adult perspective, it took us almost 24 hours to stop laughing at the mention of it before I could actually sit down with a straight face and have it out with my son. Now, say the Lindens catch my son at an all you can screw stripshow on the teen grid.. who's gonna sit down with him to hash that behavior out? You think Sally Linden or Whathisface Linden gives a rats ass if my son even understands what an all you can screw stripshow is? Its not their job to clean up the aftermath of some stupid pubecent stunt like that.. so again.. all I asked was to be allowed to do my job because no one else obviously wants it. do YOU want the job? I don't see you offering to have little heart to heart chats with confused teens who've just discovered their childhood cartoon character heros boff each other on a website? Nope.. no one offered to do that job because its MY responsibility.

It's easy to misunderstand you when you keep using hyperbole such as your statements about "pedophiles" and "thrown to the wolves".

It seems you put people in two camps: those who agree with you and those who don't care about children and would just as soon throw them into a pit of pedophiles.

As opposed to "those who agree with Groucho" and "Those who are stupid and in need of edjumacation", right?

maybe if you where explaining to your childrens that the world isn't as pink and pretty as we try to believe, that they can be raped killed and tortured for as few as a cigaret pack, instead of cocooning them into a ball of cotton until they turn 18, where they will encounter the same risks since they will have to learn the hard way all you refused to "expose" them to

the hell is paved of good intentions, and the kind of, peoples that pretend to protect their childrens by walling them from reality are the most dangerous. Yes it will take a lot of time to make a kid recover from a child abuser, especially because its your fault for not warning them agains it, for not explaining them why they shouldn't wander around during the night, why they shouldn't climb in a foreign car, and also that even theyr family can be the origin of abuses.

But will you tell your childs not to trust you for their own good?

I am not a catholic priest and i am very far of being a nun, but i know that building a walla round the village never protected the villagers from eachothers

katykiwi we even had tehm in the mentors........under 18. so seeing them more offen now is nothing these days. I report them as soon as can. But with the lack for cc control signup its going to just get worse.

Where did I say that? You have your daughter in the real world, you're not isolated from her. As for the seperation to the teen grid.... You might want to reread my post... I'm OPPOSED to even having a teen grid. I'm not the one telling you you can't be there, the company is. I'm saying it shouldn't exist.



Of course not, don't be ridiculous. This isn't even remotely what I said... allow me to repeat the small part of my post you actually posted but apparently didn't read clearly.

I said .."with a few exceptions".

Of course a parent wanting to spend time online with their own child is an exception. Of course the person in the story I quoted who was there to mentor is an exception. Girl scout and boy scout leaders are exceptions (and valuable ones). The 30 yr old man who lives alone and just really likes having little kids hanging out at his house (or just likes hanging out with them online) MIGHT be just as innocent, but as a parent, I'm sure as hell not going to assume that.




So do. I never said don't. I have in fact introduced my son to an online friend at one point too. I'm saying leaving them alone in a teen grid where you can't monitor who they are having contact with is the dumb idea.



*blinks* If you don't know the answer to this, I'm wasting my typing fingers, nevermind.

Did you seriously just not read a single word she wrote? Or does righteous indignation just come easier if you ignore it?

You missed the point completely. You have the option not to have signed him up at all. You don't like the service, don't sign him up. Simple as that.


Gets caught at what? If you are monitoring him so closely then there is no chance he will get caught, right? So go right ahead.


The main grid is designed for adults and many adults like the assurance that they are interacting with other adults. "Adult" content is pervasive and how would expect to protect him from that? You don't think an occasional topless girl, lesbian kiss, or shit-talking is going to happen in the PG sims?

If you don't like the rules, it's fine to make your opinions known in a respectful and constructive way. My personal opinion is that is not what you've done -- your statements smack of entitlement, self-righteousness and self-importance.

No doubt there was enough clamor for a teen area which is why the teen grid was created in the first place. But it is not possible to make everyone happy and LL is a business and has to make hard choices.


Given all you've said how can you claim that you will monitor him on the main grid? This is just preposterous. Are you mapping and monitoring him all the time or are you pulling weeds in the garden?


Who is saying that? A reasonable person would assume that they police the teen grid more diligently, that they respond to complaints much quicker, that they pull questionable material when it becomes known, and that they close accounts that are obvious abusers.

Is there any evidence that they don't do this?


No, there respons is. Great, pull up a seat and give little Timmy all the instruction you want to give him. You're surprised that their response isn't to just change the entire game to cater to your needs? Despite what the overwhelming majority seems to think it's a good thing to keep kids off the main grid and adults off the teen grid?


Great. If they are a significant majority then LL will change their policies. But I don't think they are.


As I said -"entitlement."


Yes, your kids, your responsibility. So how exactly has LL somehow been given the burden of entertaining/educating your kids because they created a game for adults?

Reitsuki, if you have an issue with me take it up in the offending thread or start a new one if need be.

I believe I did that.

/108/79/113371/1.html



They can't even keep adult grid content out of the teen grid. A reasonable person should assume they're having just as much trouble keeping the adults out.

Considering that fact they are saying nothing should be done, I feel justified in that.

I don't know what that thread is supposed to demonstrate. Clearly it's not impossible for someone to show their boobies and take a picture, that's not the point.

But I guess if your teenager is going to be traumatized by the occasional boob or sexual slang then you should probably not let them on the teen grid. Or the web. Or in a movie theatre. Or a bookstore. Or in front of a TV. Oh just lock them in a closet until they're 18 and magically become adult.

BTW, is kissing banned from teen SL? Haven't seen anything about. Not that i've looked too closely.

You are deciding what price you are willing to have her pay in order for you to be comfortable that she is safe. That's not your call.

And now who's putting words in who's mouth?

Please, protect your own kids. I will honor the decisions you make in that area. Frankly, I think my daughter is a lot more at risk on the playground at school than in Second Life. I'm looking over her shoulder in Second Life. The perp can't grab her and run off in Second Life.

And she'd be even safer if she was on the main grid where Linden Labs didn't have a big sign over her head saying "***Teenager***".

And yes, that was a metaphor (like "lock her away from the world". Look it up.

Actually, I would more or less define that as the job of a parent, within obvious reason.

I, too, am unclear on how these two paragraphs are not contradictory. If he is able to play on the teen grid without you monitoring him, how will you map him while on the main grid? Is there not a password required to sign in on the teen grid? I thought that there would be in order to keep younger siblings from accessing it.


Many people, myself included, opted to join precisely because it was an adult game and not just because of adult content. We just don't care to hang out with kids and this is time away from such family activity. You clearly have other options for playing with your son, I don't understand why we can't have it adults only here.

So many venues are indeed geared toward the youth market but I guess adults only wasn't providing the customer base LL needs.

Please before assuming my intent go back and read my previous posts, you're assumptions aren't even closely related to what I'm saying. I'm saying the teen grid is not being monitored in the way LL promised it would be... It isn't possible to keep it as safe as they guaranteed. Adult predators are getting in to the teen grid as easily as anyone gets into the adult grid.

Want proof of that? Just five minutes ago a new account was created on the teen grid... during the creation of this account the only information required was a name (easily faked), a date of birth (also easily faked) and an email address (a free yahoo one worked). No credit card, no phone number, no age verification. No security measures to prevent a predator from walking right in the front door at all.



I never said teenagers shouldn't be exposed to any sexual content at all. I said they shouldn't be exposed to it in a locked environment where the people who are supposed to watch over them (their parents) aren't supposed to get in to see what they're up to, but the potential threat (predators) can easily.

As other posters have stated, SL has traditionally been a place for adults to be with adults. It should have been kept that way.... 18 and over period. No offense to those teens who want to play, I understand.... but mine won't be. They have their own games.

Hi, Reitsuki. I like hearing your viewpoint, even if I don't always agree.

In this case, I do. And I make those trade-offs all the time. I tend to take more risks than most people (as far as I can tell) where there is an opportunity to help my kids learn; and Second Life is a great place to learn.

Since some people here think I am a bad parent, I want to add something like the fact that I refuse to let my daughter walk to school, even though the school is pressing us to do just that (in order to alleviate traffic problems).

But, probably everybody has made up their mind already.