Did Anyone Read This? Res Mods Phase 2

For the moving threads to review, that was discouraged after the first week when threads were moved without any commentary or forewarning. So tweaks were made and the process was changed. I'm sure that these changes were announced. So now, instead of moving a thread, we'd post warnings, close it if warnings were ignored with an explanation, and then submit a link to it for Linden review.

And the Linden Mods still get the same reports. That's why we'll still see Jeska coming in and doing the closing, warning, etc. We all get them as they come.

I suspect some of the trouble that Linden Research has providing a forum for users of their software to discuss their software lies in those words.

okely-dokely..

here's my viewpoint as per my actions.

Abuse Reports - sometimes we know who is sending them, like in Coco's case, because she signs hers. sometimes others will sign there's as well. but it doesn't matter. if the same post is reported five times for the same reason (which, yes, has happened), it doesn't affect my judgement of the matter. if it's a violation, then it's a violation. if not, then it's not. if it's something i can't do anything about, then i'll generally assume Jeska will handle it, or i'll post a link in the ResMod sub-forum, "For Linden Review". i can't edit posts, nor can i rightfully contact someone in a disciplinary measure, although i have contacted a few people when it's of a more personal nature and feel it would be better dealt with privately instead of out for everyone to see. examples: to edit a post or advice to avoid confrontation.

Tos/CS interpretation - it doesn't amtter who you are or what you do, if i see a violation that deserves attention, then i do what i can. although sometimes, there's not much i can do. other times it means i will close a thread and offer a link for Linden Review.. this way, other posters can see why a thread was closed and can wait with bated breath (along with me) to see what the becomes of it. in extreme cases, the thread gets moved to Linden Review in its entirety. in some lesser cases, i will simply try to post a positive comment or something to try to bring the conversation back around.

Other - Jeska and/or Lindens aren't pulling our (my) strings. if anything, i simply bring attention to things that need it, after which it's up to Jeska, et al, what to do with tha nformation. i'm not told, "pay attention here" or "don't mind this person". i use my position as completely unbiased as possible, which in my eyes, is fairly well wholly unbiased. please, correct me if i'm wrong.. and i do sincerely mean that.

also, i have to disagree somewhat with how Satchmo put why the changes were made, or rather why these particular changes were made. it's a combination of ResMod suggestions, Linden observation and community outcries. some main points:
1) current ResMods continuing activiy - this is up to them/us. fairly simple.

2) training pool - this was more of a combines response. a huge portion of the community voiced their opinion that the ResMods weren't properly taught how to do their job before starting it. now, there will be a week-long period where new participants will "learn the ropes" and become acclimated with the program before being bestowed with powers that affect the community.

3) Best Practice - this was more of a Linden construct. but a good one. this gathers together some of the more concise information on how to be a consistant and decent moderator. a list that will grow as the program hones itself into a more well-oiled machine.

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also, "broadly offensive" and "offensive to the same few" doesn't make me think of favoritism, it makes me think of clear-headed decision making. well, in my personal style of moderation anyway, as i can't speak for all the other moderators as well.
from my point of view, this simply translates into.. some things are truly violatious (did i just make a new word?) and some are offensive only to a few, what is broadly offensive is more likely to be an actual violation of the Tos/CS, while what offends only one or two people tima and again, is most likely jsut personally offensive but not a real violation.
now, don't get me wrong.. multiple ARs from one person can be just as valid as many from many people. and that's why i take each AR in and of its own accord, but that doesn't mean i can't see trends as i go through them.

and remember, within the forums, language violations are sometimes hard to interpret the same between all involved. a "f*** you" comment is certainly disdainful, but is it truly a personal attack? or is it strongly offensive to that person? there's a differnece and LL seems to make a point of allowing wide freedoms. as such, it's hard to judge sometimes whether something is truly an attack or not.
of course, it really doesn't matter when it comes to ResMods and personal discipline, because we have no control over that. although, when it appears to be something in question, it can be brought to the attention of Jeska via the ResMod forums or in a PM, which i have done as well because i feel some instance deserve a bit of candor that even the relative privacy of the ResMod forums can't even provide. either that or the closing of a thread for review.

if you make an AR and don't actually see ResMod actions being taken, it doens't mean that there aren't any behind the scenes. sometimes it takes time, sometimes it takes discussion, sometimes it gets forwarded to Jeska or Linden review. so, if you make an AR and don't see a reaction with, say.. ten minutes.. don't assume nothing is being dnoe. give it some time. as much as i iwsh i could perform with the efficiancy of a computer, alas.. i am but a human and cannot acheive such tasks.
granted there are some that will simply be deleted with no action taken on them by one or mroe moderators, not because of favortism, but simply because some things that seem like infractions to one person, dno't actually literally translate that way in accordance with the Tos/CS.
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by the way, Khamon, if you're still reading this.. a better question would be how many in a day, not a week. for instance, i have 18 ARs in my email for the 14th.. and i thnk i already deleted (dealt with) a couple. i count 6 for the 13th (again, i think i deleted several of those as well), but there were 21 on the 12th. some days see as few as 6 - 8 ARs, and i'd say the avergae is around 12 - 15. so i guess, the answer for a week would be 100 - 120 on average. (man, i really have to get to those..)
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ok, i've gone on long enough.. probably too long. (excuse me if i've repeated myself in this post)


Until after now...

(ooh, i'm dreading hitting "Submit" and seeing how long this post actually is)

Isn't "personal interpretation of posts" also at the root of some of these problems? Every time I think the ResMod program is back on track something else goes horribly wrong. I don’t want to know that instead of a post being put up for review the mod decided it was best to handle their friend personally. I have heard a lot that has made my stomach turn.

Turn this around.

Is it so hard to make a list of not acceptable words for the pg forums? More so to consistently hold any poster to the same standard? With personal interpretation also comes personal opinion.

Coco, Aimee, Eboni, and others continue to hit the nail on the head here. I applaud them for using their voices. Things must change yes but instead of more consistency we are seeing just how inconsistent and just plain wrong things are.

When history is written, and it will be. All the fluff and bs answers will fall along the wayside and the truth will be all that’s left.

Spare me anymore details or excuses of why things were done so badly. Listen to all the voices of those that subscribe to this product and just do the decent thing from here on out.

Cat

Well for a start naming names is against the TOS

Secondly - why bother saying 'sorry' when your not?

You can say things back if ya like, I don't save them for later - they just fall like golden nuggets from my fingertips

And heres the fun part:

Because I tend to take my lumps and carry on with biz as usual irrespectively - you'll never know if anything was ever said to me or not

And that's gonna drive you crazy

BTW - how many of those were directed at you again? I can account for about 90% being not and 10%, while are certainly things I *would* not quite sure if they *were*

Yeah it was me - I sing it to the tune of a barney song in RL - at work - everytime I get shafted by something.

So me an everyone I work with aren't 'decent' people?

LOL

We're decent, just no terribly PC.

And seeing how warnings and the like are not posted (as Leck proved not even allowed to SAY) - and how as I said in the post above, for me life goes on irrespective because I don't whine about getting a wrist slap... it can drive you nuts late at night if I did or didn't too

LOL - I should make that my signature - instead I'll save it for prosperity

See, in the end we are all the same - we are all fallable - and we all use naughty words from time to time

Martin, i understand your concerns about different interpretation resulting in different modes of moderation, but remember, ARs are received by ALL of the mods. this means while one may think to contact someone personally or that it's not a violation or that is is or whatever, that any other mod can see it differently. in essence, this means MORE things will be given the eye they deserve, not less.




no, it's not hard at all. from what Jeska has stated, it's not so much the language that is used as much as it is how it's said. someone can curse up a storm and not attack a single soul, while someone else could speak with nothing but big, smarty-pants words and leave a scathing remark that scars someone for life. it's not the words, it's the message.
and remember, when complaining about personal interpretation, you complain about Jeska's interpretation. she's human just like the rest of us and will form opinions based on her own folds of grey matter. having extra eyes may catch something in their interpretation that she may not. or in the reverse, as well.




i have to apologize for supplying more details/excuses. it's just that i'm trying to clear some of the air about this subject. i'm not saying it's perfect, but i'm seeing a resurgance of attacks on the program now that "Phase II" is coming into effect and i wish to come to some sort of mutual understanding before the new ResMods get their powers. i'd hate to see them go through some of the tribulations that the ResMods endured upon the origin of this project.

besides.. i'm assuming that by "the decent thing" you mean get rid of the ResMods altogether. this is something i have no control over, but if i see it actually degrade into a mess of corruption and abuse of power then you can count my voice in with the others who want to end it. i may be a bit biased because i'm a ResMod, but honestly, i would be of the same position whether i was one or not.

disclaimer: this post is simply meant for fun. *ResMod powers off for this post*



ok, i challenge you to find where i've used naughty words, not including edited ones like "f***". i'm interested to see what's the worse that could be found. (hint: you'll have more luck searching for "bad words" used by The Quirk.. who you may have noticed hasn't been around since i became ResMod. )




wow, i had to edit an inordinate amount of spelling errors..
maybe i should go get some sleep.

The decent thing is just that. Treat everyone equally as possible, do not allow ppl to talk down to each other in a manner not keeping with the LL pg forum rating. If they are going to allow the f word for one then change it to M rating and get it over with. That is a mixed message that needs to be gone.

Make clear rules for the resmods so less personal interpertation is necessary. Remove completely the threat of losing our IW assets over a word being taken the wrong way. Because that is one thing all this does boil down to.

I am asking that everyone push all the garbage aside. It is very obvious to me at least that this program is going to go threw reguardless of the voices that have said "no". So do we sit around beating to death how horrible it has gone wrong. Or do we get together and start talking about what changes can be made to help the resmod program work.

Apparently you assumed wrong about the intent of my post.

Cat

Are you saying The Quirk is your alt and has also posted while you post. Just wondering.

does this never end. argh. I'm going to bed.

Still counts - its intent my friend - saying f*** or fuck... and saying 'I don't swear but my alt might have' - well thats pretty retarded.

And do you really have to remind me about your amazing rezmod powers? thats just overcompensating and driving the point home of why I'm absolutely against the whole program to begin with.

To tell the truth - I don't give a rats if you're a mod or not - if your a tard I'll say so.

Just several misc. observations. Yes, lateral things. They aren't meant to be "for" or "against"--think of them like something the lovechild of Forrest Gump and Shiina Ringo might say.

1. "ResMod" is a very easy keyword to search for! In the past, I've done "threadtunnelling" to connect issues. I've even mused about some sort of tagging system to identify threads with, so as to classify related ones about a specific issue (e.g. OPTERON DUAL-CORE STUTTERING) and of that nature. The discussions of ResMods have serendipitously made me realize this.
   

1. I was thinking a lot recently about "AI", including some in representative anime, and how they learn. At a very rudimentary level compared to us. Humans get trained, learn patterns--the brain is an extremely efficient pattern recognition system--and then as familiarity is bred, we have comfort. The same applies to "lists of dirty words" (one of my fave comedians is George Carlin BTW) and "Is this against the Guideline?" Now, I'm biased because I'm am empiricist, but I end up being thrown into situations to experience them. I could only theorize otherwise. Similarly, threads locked now, ResMods look to Jeska's prior actions as an example. And future ResMods will look to today's ResMods. And it goes without saying, so I'll say it anyway, that we're looking at each other.
   

1. But, more about robots: you can lead them to moderate "objectively", but they aren't the most fun to post Off-Topic threads with. Today's technology: Elizabots and whatnot. How could they moderate forums? It's not a realistic option. We talk about making "fair judgments", and we also talk about "the human spirit". And there's a lot of emotions that show on here.
   

1. I'm much better at being excited on here and looking for kewl schtuff than locking threads!
   

1. Something I've always liked about the Community Standards, ever since my first day on SL... is, while descriptive, it's so easy to understand. Across cultures too. My mindspace comes from some sorta extraterrestrial perspective, and I got it right away. While I've heard many times that some parts could be more specific--we've also got the ToS for all the legalese. So, I feel the CS provides a good level of granularity, while being flexible enough to be effective in such a rapidly-changing world as SL.
   

1. "Broadly offensive" is a fascinating phrase. It, for me, connects to wisdom of the crowds. I didn't use to understand why rearranged phonemes proved to be so hurtful to some: but then I became emotional over the healing words of the world, and how I pair words with action--to break that bond is like, to sever lovers's trust. What I've discussed before, I carry that with me now on my travels.
   

1. I am very much hoping that ResMods, or any Resi of Second Life, for that matter, will draw my attention to threads which are gleaming with collective pearls of knowledge, humor, wisdom, and insightful chaos--not necessarily in that order, since chaos is the opposite of order. This, I prefer infinitely over being told "There's another thread gone downhill." Show me what's good to you. Bring me the new as you continue to treasure the old.
   

1. Consider: will there be a metathread pointing to other threads: "What are your favorite threads in the SL Forums?" similar to "What are you favorite places in SL?"
   

1. It's long been a priority for me to explain why I did something, not just what I did. I agree with what's voiced here, about giving more context, shedding more light, applying reasoning and showing a circus instead of just the white elephant, or her caretaker.
   

1. Ice sculptures are generic blocks of frozen water that can be shaped into great beauty. If not kept at low temperatures, they will melt away--but the beauty isn't easily forgotten.
   

1. And about moving a thread for Linden review and notifying this clearly as opposed to having a ResMod close it... I'm going to snipe this out!
   

Martin, first of all.. i'm sorry if i misconstrued your post that i had replied to. my mind isn't working at full-throtle and i'm doing my best to push my neurons to act as well as they can. thank you for the the clarification thoguh!

also, yes.. The Quirk is my alt. this is fairly common knowledge amongst a decent percentage of regulars here on the forums and i make so bones about it. it's also why i've avoided posting as him during my tenure as a ResMod, as he's a more.. outspoken.. version of the RL me and i wish to not muddle matters any mroe than need be. he and i have posted during the same time periods and have even talked to each other at times. i speerate them from each other quite clearly in my ,ind, but for the sake of integrity i have decided to keep him quiet during these ResModding times.
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Siggy, a couple things. when i mentioned the instance of "f***", it was something i had mentioned in referrence to terms being used within the forums. it wasn't made in a statement about, or towrds, someone/thing. so, the only intent was to illustrate the use of such and not the actual use of the word.
but, besides all that, i was just trying to be silly and have some fun with you. it was meant in a joking matter. i'm glad that you don't care if i'm a ResMod or not! i only used the disclaimer for the benefit of ANYone who might read my post. being in this position makes it very hard to just post as me and not a ResMod and some SLers have commented how they would like to know when a ResMod is posting as such or as a regular Resi. in this instance, i thought it befitting that i make the distinction that i was simply trying to be light-hearted. it wasn't an attack or anything.. sorry if it came out wrong.
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Torley, sorry.. i didn't read through your post. my brain is too muddled for extensive reading, but i'm sure i'll read it in it's entirely in my next waking time period.

Then you see some of the suckage inherant in the system..

If you can't be you to me because your worried about how others will construe it - theres a problem.

If I can't be me to you because you have some additional privs to me - theres a problem.

And I appreciate the river of diahrea that Jeska must be up to her bottom lip in, wading through AR's and bitchy crap day in and day out...

but....

Make em Lindens - hire people and make it their jobs. You pay for what you get. It's that simple really.

Or better yet - and this will seem strange coming from me:

Shut down General and off topic, nuke the fuckers... leave the ones that are specific and can be handled easily.

Leave this quagmire of shite to the 3rd party fan sites.

You are obviously from a strange land, o traveller, and know not the local custom. Culture shock is no laughing matter (except for when it is ).

Most people do not like rules like that though... They are needlessly restrictive of language, and serve to annoy as much as protect. Sure, it would be easy to do... the lindens could declare cheese a banned word, if they wanted. But banning certain combinations of letters from existing doesn't show any maturity whatsoever, and pg or not, we are all supposed to be mature adults here. Hence why meaning is given more weight than the actual word.



I'll agree there are consistency problems, but I don't want disney.com forum filters. I'd rather they just say "Go ahead, swear, we don't care. Just don't attack people."... Which is what the unwritten rule already seems to be, it just needs to be applied better.



The "voices of those that subscribe to this product" are not united. Hell, we couldn't agree on the colour of the sky if our life depended on it. A vast amount of us don't see an intrinsic problem with profanity, for example, while (as I see it) a relatively small amount do. Who's opinion is more important? You say yours. I say mine. Bob Smith says his is. See the problem?

You know, Torley, I was worried that when you became a Linden that you would lose a lot of the essence of what has made you "you" - that you would somehow have to be more subdued because of the official nature of your Lindenista persona. However, I am happy to report those worries were unfounded. You are as wonderfully you, if not more so, than ever, and at the same time, a consummate professional. It's very cool to see.

Ok back to fighting about ResMods! Down with the ResMod system! I suggest that we let Torley shame us all into being nice, thus no moderation needed.

F@!# Bob Smith!

Well, I am sorry for the naming part. Like when I named Prok (by his real name, even), I wasn't thinking about that.

As for the "fun part" of you taking your lumps in private, no, it is not going to drive me crazy, because I figured that out long ago. It's simply insufficient.

As for how many were directed at me of those I listed, none. That is beside the point.

The reason I'm sorry is I AM sorry to single you out, though you are the worst offender, since others have done similar. I don't hate you, I'm really too old to hate anybody, at least not for more than five minutes. You make me laugh sometimes, too, you know. ("There's a vas deferens between you and I." Now I know that you are going to reject that with revulsion, but I don't care about that, either.

In any case, you and your habits are not the problem here.

coco

As I have said a jillion times.

coco

Maybe bob smith before he turned into a fat drunk... on second thought, no to that too

I'm going to lobby to assure making fun of The Cure is against the TOS. Although, my efforts for Michael Jackson have gone nowhere

I appreciate everyone's feedback on the Resmod program, and agree we have to work harder to provide more consistency.

What suprises me most is the number of people who think we should shut down threads that contain anything from a "list of dirty words". I think if we did that, most people would be on the other side of the fence screaming "Forum Police!".

I still say we should have forum mods with full dictatorial powers chosen as random on a weekly basis. Its would be so much more fun.

The Cure ROCK.

Regards,

-Flip

I don't really like the ResMod program, but since its going to happen regardless, there are 2 words that should define it: Starre Decisis

Briana Dawson