How Many Islands have gone so far?

Island growth so far in December, as of December 15th: -1165.
Island growth so far in December, as of December 16th: -1211.

I not disagree with you about the LL provided number as it counts all agents including bots. What the number of these are, is speculative as even LL doesnt really know. Or they not telling anyone anyways if they do know for real. 10-15% I think was the last number I saw. Ms Anya Ristow and others have their own counts on this and thats fine.

I can see your logic now in that you measuring hud usage in a way that is useful for you. Your numbers are extrapolated from people who wear the hud ya. So I not have any problem with that either.

So your saying the information on http://secondlife.com/httprequest/homepage.php isn't correct? I find that hard to believe as this is the same number LL uses on the Second Life homepage.

This constitutes a 12% reduction since October 28.
The average number of islands lost per day in November was just under 66 islands per day.
The average number of islands lost per day in December so far is 75.6 islands per day.

It's not even January yet.

I think Vic just saying that the way he is counting and the way LL is counting arent using the same methods. So is not surprising to me that Vic gets a different result. As do people like Ms Anya Ristow and others who use different methods again.

How we count is only really applicable to whatever it is we are doing. In Vics case he measuring hud usage. When the hud is deployed, how often and so on. And ya he said that his population conjecture is based on the logic of his counting method. And he say that is a leap of faith also which is what conjectures are =) So is all good really in this sense.

Did I mention that URL? I don't think I did. I did paste your URL to see what you are referring to. I have no idea what it is or where it is from. Please do not attribute statements to me that I did not make. Thanks.

Thanks Tabliopa. Yes, that is what I am saying. All of the figures we have are conjecture and the true figure is somewhere in the middle of my minimums and LL's maximums. As far as conjectures are concerned, I believe we can safely assume a mean figure from these two extremes as being close to the real figure. Either way, my main statement is that I have noticed a visible drop off in avs on sims that I visit frequently.

I have just talked to my so called land baron, he owns about 60 OS sims, and he is saying that most of his customers have told him that they can just afford the increase this month, but most will not be able to in June. He will be offering 1/4 sims, I guess that is his OS's converted to full sims, but I for one will not be downgrading to that. After June I'm out of here land wise. It gives 6 months for other worlds to get their act together. So will see you in either LCO or OLG. Will still come to SL for fun stuff if there is any left, but from June LL will not get a penny from me (thats a british penny )

I'm in that same boat too, can afford this price but not the next. I will enjoy mu OS/Homestead until then. I will not get a 1/4 Sim but rather a cheap plot of "land" where I can put a modest house. I am not willing to give LL money for an inferiior product and reduced freedoms/creativity.

Island growth so far in December, as of December 18th: -1321.
Island growth so far in December, as of December 19th: -1379.
Island growth so far in December, as of December 20th: -1458.
Island growth so far in December, as of December 22th: -1535.

LOL! I just looked at the economic statistics page... and it says: -24562 for Wednesday, December 24, 2008.

Did somone posting those numbers from LL have a little too much eggnog?

Despite the rumours, the grid is not gone. It's not THAT bad. Not yet. But it's on its way.

The number of islands peaked on Oct. the 28th: 26665.
Island growth in the days 29th-31st Oct: -126.
Island growth in November: -1977.

Island growth so far in December, as of December 23rd: -1630.
Island growth so far in December, as of December 24th: -1664.

And now the island statistics are....

"Temporarily disabled. We apologize for the inconvenience."

How convenient.

Wow. If that was done on purpose in an effort to hide the really bad looking numbers that page has had for the last couple months, this looks even worse..

Please don't do this, LL.

No it's not that, something went wrong with the calculation, basically it said that every single private island on the grid had gone offline, which plainly isn't true!

yeh i saw that glitchy bit too, before the stats went down. its understandable really. if you think about it a sec - makes sense.

1 does not equal 4, nor vice versa, and that is going to throw off any automated counting system from all the conversions, back & forth...... and there is so many islands, its not like anyone is going to count that ish out manually....

their calculation code couldnt take it anymore.

It just doesn't seem to me that the calculation would be particularly complicated. If they can't even make a web page that is able to show the change in the number of islands.... how can we expect anything to work?

Not sure what the "1 does not equal 4" bit means in this context.. The numbers were about land mass, not about sim host counts.

Land size does seem like it should be a fairly easy number for them to come up with. Almost a "how could they possibly NOT know?" sorta number.

/me continues to be unhappy with virtually everything about the openspace changes. Except for Katt trying to keep the forums here from exploding, every single thing about it just makes me scratch my head and wonder what's going on at LL.

Conversion of the islands is the problem, combined with the fact that the counter coded into their website just reads "islands". Apparently, it cannot differentiate between the "islands" that are actually full islands, and the ones that are opensims.



What I mean by 4 does not equal 1, and vice versa, is this....

(Let's work with small numbers, to make it easier.)



1. Say for example, you start with 8 open sims:

4 opensims are then converted into 1 island.
2 opensims are abandoned.

So now you have 3 "islands".



2. Same idea again, you have 8 open sims:

This time, the situation is more grim.

5 opensims are abandoned!

Yet, three islands still remain! No different from my first example?



3. Once more, we will start with 8 open sims:

All 8 are converted into 2 full islands. Hooray! Somebody new then buys an additional island. Yay!!

In spite of EXTRA business & ZERO abandonment...... the count still is the same, equalling three. Looks bad eh? It's less than we started from! OH NOS!!



In each of my examples, 3 "islands" were left..... but in reality, a different number was abandoned. In my last example, no islands were abandoned at all!

Yet the result stayed the same, equaling 3 each time!

The longer this type of false calculation could continue, the more inaccurate results would be reflected. It also makes sense, this form of counting "islands" would be generally correct, until there was a high number of conversions, all at once.

Their current form of tabulation, would only lead to increasingly erroneous figures, so better to remove it, until they finish coding in a new system to properly keep track of their massive inventory of islands.

If any Linden is still reading this thread, please do correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect this is pretty much bang-on here.....

Er.. You mean openspace, right? OpenSim is a very, very different thing.

A mainland region, a full private estate region, a openspace region and a homestead region are all 65,536 square meters of land. That's what this metric has been showing us - the net change in how 'big' SL is. It's not the number of CPUs it takes to host SL, it's the land size.

Sure, there may be errors due to, as a random example, it taking longer to get a new sim up than it takes to take an old one down and stuff like that but I still don't see any reason why this isn't a good indication of the overall trend in total land size.

Since the openspace announcement, this trend has been very, very clear. Crystal clear. 100% alpha clear. I continue to be disapointed that they're not longer reporting it.

Quote : Their current form of tabulation, would only lead to increasingly erroneous figures, so better to remove it, until they finish coding in a new system to properly keep track of their massive inventory of islands.

If any Linden is still reading this thread, please do correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect this is pretty much bang-on here..... [/QUOTE]



They been reporting full sims and OS sims before in the total, i.e. if someone bought 1 full sim and 3 OS they reported + 4 islands

Mainland sims are not reported in these figures, there are about 5000 mainland sims outside that calculation.

So they show a loss of approx 2.000 islands in Nov and will prolly show another 2.000 in December a total of 4.000 sims.

In the "normal times" they added about 1.000 sims per months before the OS hipe, if you just account 500 new sims per month the total sim loss for these 2 months is 5.000 sims.

As i was told by Jack the rate from convertion to abandon is 2.5

So approx 4.500 OS were conterted to full sims and approx 1.800 where really lost. As we had approx 12.000 OS on the grid before approx 50% of them are gone.

From the convertions about 1.200 new full sims showed up, thats the reason so many people are selling full sims at the moment. As they are cheaper than one from Linden new sims are hardly bought from Linden, they will suffer from it in the 1st quarter, no grow for an internet company is really bad. Shows every investor the company is managed badly, but I guess they will use the bad ecomony excuse for it.

They have had the current system of counting all simulators together for years... if they want to change it fine, but the old system should still be working. They have made no indication that they are going to change the method of counting simulators. I don't think this explanation holds water for why they disabled the "islands added" count. Even if they decided to separate them by types it shouldn't be too difficult except for generating the statics retroactively for previous months.

In my opinion, without knowing the actual numbers, I would suspect that the numbers would not look good no matter how they decide to divide it up.

They still have the numbers available, at http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy-data.php They just weren't displaying right on the main stats page.

For 2008-12-26:

December 2008 - MTD
Islands Owned (end of Month): 22898
Islands Added During Month: -1664

November 2008
Islands Owned (end of Month): 24562
Islands Added During Month: -1977