How Many Islands have gone so far?

And this relates to the setup cost going up USD$125 because?

How about because that's closer to what it actually costs? Or would you rather there'd been a separate price change just for that, so we could have yet another round of emodrama?

Setting up a low-calorie "region lite" does not somehow cost less than setting up a full region. It's not like they run out to Best Buy to buy server hardware every night based on how many regions were sold. Most of the cost is admin support...people costs.

I was responding to the assertion that "cost was never the issue", which sounds pretty silly to me. If "cost was never the issue", then obviously the reason for the whole kerfluffle was simply to p*ss off customers...to "crush their dreams" as it was so colorfully put.

I know that's a popular theory in some circles, but it strikes me as implausible at best.

Then an island would cost the same setup as mainland and would cost the same as three voids (since three voids are on the same core of the server - was four per core.) Tell me, are these figures equal? Or are mainland servers made of magical Indian pixie dust that is less expensive, uses less power and cures nasal warts?

Ask yourself a question and tell us the answer,
When LL decided to take an unpopular product,lower the price and double the prims, do you honestly think they had no clue there would be a run on such a product they knowingly made more accessible to a great many people.
As for dreams ,yes,i would love a full 15000 prim island,but for me the cost is too much,as it was for thousands of others who rented homesteads,the homestead being an affordible alternative.
For many of us we spend hours creating things on our islands,i imagine you cannot understand the attachment one can have with their island and creations.
LL made a ton of money from all the islands they sold,don't kid yourself
You make LL out to be completely stupid,selling a low price product and when it took off and thousands were sold said "oh look what happened,what have we done"
They knew exactly what they were doing,and your answer to the reasons are just one of hundreds put forth in these forums

How about you think about what you're saying? Are they running three to a core yet? If not it costs no more to set them up than it does an Openspace, which has a setup cost of USD$250, the only argument for a higher price is that the setup cost includes first month's tier, that's a twenty dollar difference, not USD$125.

If they've decided to increase performance by running them three to a core then fair play to them, that's a means of justifiying the increase, but I haven't seen that stated anywhere.



Indeed, so four x 375 is greater than 4 x 250 and 1 x 1000 isn't it? The increased setup fee is justfied if they run them three to a core, that then makes sense. If Linden Lab had announced this was the plan at the start people would have seen what the increase was about, they didn't say that and as far as I know they haven't said that.



It's not implausible at all, there were too many of them. They did go out of their way to p*ss their customers off and they did a damn good job of it too. The more likely explanation is that they could not support demand, so they changed pricing to stifle said demand.

Where have they stated they are running three to a core? This question was asked during the peak of the debacle and it was hinted that they may one day be three to a core.

Mainland sims can generate more tier in theory than an estate sim, so it's not a like for like comparison. The majority of mainland sims are owned by different people so costs are hard to compare.

Yup, that is hitting the nail on the head. I believe it is that simple, and it was pretty darn effective too, eh?

I understand it perfectly; I'm just willing to pay for the creations to which I am so attached.

@Ciaran: I remain unconvinced that the setup cost has a significant hardware cost component. The hardware occupied is properly a factor in the monthly, not the setup.

If it makes you feel better to say "changed pricing to stifle demand" rather than "changed pricing to reflect costs", then enjoy yourself. Demand is always sensitive to price; if a lot of the demand was created by an unprofitable price, well, then there you are.

Are you that willing to be robbed? Interesting. LL baited people "look what a great product we offer at a great price" (and they boasted about how many people did the step to buy that product "another great quarter with thousands of new regions coming online" - and then, when people settled in, spent more or less big money (what big money is depends very much on your personal financial situation, right?), they put a gun to their heads "now pay more than you ever planned to pay for it or just flush it all down the drain". Hm. Can I sell you a house in RL? I make you a nice, affordable financing plan. Only after you moved in, bought new furniture for the house, hired a garden architect and built a pool in your new backyard - I will raise your monthly rates by 66 percent. Pay it - or just give it up and lose everything you invested. Nice plan, isn't it? I'm sure you are willing to pay for what you surely got so attached by then.

And that doesn't even take in the consideration of the difference between "willing to pay" and "being able to pay".



The setup cost has a close to zero manpower component. Nowadays it's all automatic, you know? A few clicks in the fully automatic landstore, and a minute later your new region is online. Hardware is the only real cost component in the setup - and the raise to $375 made an already totally overpriced and profitable product even more so.

No, OS regions were not unprofitable. Not when you can rent a server with unlimited traffic and enough bandwith and power to run 4 full regions for *half* of what LL charges for *1* full region. Yes, I know, this is very simplified, and there are more factors in this calculation. Still I doubt very much that this "overhead" justifies to charge $1180 (or even $1200 in case of the old open space product) for a server that costs them maybe $150 a month. And now they want even more, $1520 per month, in July $2000! Can I have a lincense to print my own money, too?

I do find it somewhat amusing that all of the people saying how criminal and unjustified the change was, are still here. Some of the same ones that stated that this was going to be the end of SL. Sorry but if I felt that someone screwed me RL, I would never do business with them again.

Half of my regions are gone, all plans for expanding (both private and for business) are cancelled. The other half of my customers decided to pay the higher price for now (but most will abandon ship in July if LL really is that crazy to do the 2nd price step then), and of course I won't rip their land from under their feet just because I would prefer to LL get even less money from me/them.

And yet you were the one that asked this question:

So then that really means: "Yes I am willing to be robbed but only for half of the amount".

L is not stupid and they are not criminals. They were smart enough to do what no one else has ever done and they are still here. They have done what a portion of the community says is a horrible, criminal act and yet even a lot of that portion hasn't left. I don't agree with everything the lab does but I don't go so far as to say they do not know what they are doing or try to make wild guesses as to what their costs/profits are. And once again, if I thought they or anyone royally screwed me then I would have left.

As I said, half of my regions *are* gone already. LL already *is* losing a couple of hundred dollars each month that came from me before they turned into street robbers. My 2nd privately used OS region that was planned for december didn't happen, as the average of 2 or 3 additional regions used for business each month didn't happen.



LL has proven again and again that infact they *are* stupid. Not all of them, but surely some of the decision makers. SL5B, VAT, OS, Nipplegate - a continuous line of stupid decisions, communicated in an even more stupid PR debacle, filled with open lies and misinformation. They have shown again and again just how little they care for those that pay their wages.



It is a calculation of losses. Right now, giving up *everything* would still be a (barely) higher cost than keeping a part of my investments. Right now, my SL income almost covers my expenses. This will end in July, and then LL will make from me almost no money anymore - instead of 1500-2000 dollar per month. Not a single RL cent will go to a company run by backstabbers. I'm closely watching competition, and when a real alternative shows up: goodbye SL. I guess thats the positive restult of LL being run by thieves and business idiots: it really gave the development of alternatives a big push.

A failure in "able to pay" should indeed be whined about on some other website. A free SL account does not come with some implicit right to all the resources to do whatever you want at a price you find attractive.

As for your real-world real estate analogy, that sort of thing happens every day, grow up. "You can't raise my rent because I've grown attached to this place"? Maybe that works where you live. It won't fly where I do.

If you want your own "licence to print money", you're welcome to start your own virtual world MMPORPG. It's not like others aren't trying it.

Actually, in the place where I live (and where I *am* in the real estate business), you can't raise a rent in such a crazy amount. Especially not without improving the product or - as LL does - making it even worse than it was before.

I am still here, but I don't have an opensim (or homestead or whatever) anymore. I now rent on a class 5 island with my group. And it'll be a warm day on Pluto before I buy any land products from LL ever again! I cannot trust them to just sell me something and leave the price alone, oh no. They change the terms of the deal whenever it suits them. I bet if I changed the terms and unilaterally cut my monthly tier in half, they'd have banned me. But somehow it's okay when THEY do it and with no good-faith effort to take care of their existing customers.

Just because I'm still driving doesn't mean I believe the roads are in good shape. All it means is that for the present time, there is no alternative.

If I didn't rent land out I'd have pretty much have returned all of it. However I have a relationship with my customers and I don't want to follow Linden Lab's example of poor customer service, but like others it means I'm far less likely to invest in expansion.

Wow i am tired of people telling each other to "just leave"! Just stop it please!

Hardly any of us are in a position to just up and walk away. It could be friends, family, business, tenants or something else.

It feels akin to telling someone to leave the planet. Or worst...its like telling them to die...and all the other emotions that would go along with killing/deleting an AV.

((sorry, caught me in a mood, i promise to ignore this thread and let it die))


I too can only sigh when i look over what is left of my estate. Worst i feel my estate and business (and probably most of sl) is now stuck in "static" mode. Meaning...even looking far into the future i see no reason for growth(adding new regions). In fact if I'm honest with myself, i see the opposite happening.

I guess I will just have to ignore this and get on with my SLife....

The setup fees however are an example that there is no proper link between costs, it should only cost a difference in tier to setup a Homestead rather than an Openspace, as they currently stand there should be not be a USD$125 difference, there's no consistency in their pricing model. From an admin point of view, setting up four Openspaces or Homesteads should cost more than setting up one full island, that makes sense, however it's not the case.

They obviously changed pricing to stifle demand, that was the result and they blogged that they expected that to be the result. The price was not unprofitable, however you hit a wall in some places with expansion.

Recently someone asked me if I had a quarter of a sim to rent, I don't. Buying more mainland would have meant I had to pay tier for an extra half a sim, buying estate would have meant having to get a full island. Neither would have been cost effective to provide a quarter of a sim of rental space. I could have raised prices across the board to cover the extra costs of course, but that would have been foolhardy.

The issue therefore is taking responsibility for your actions and that's something that Linden Lab were not prepared to do. Selling a product you can't support is pretty reckless.

I agree, it was a very strange thing to observe...

Since LL is still 'fixing' their statistics pages, here are this week's numbers, quoted from Tyche Shepherd's blog ( http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/business-land-economy/8523-new-second-life-sims-past-13.html ):

With 167 new regions and 285 regions removed this week, the Grid dropped by 118 regions.
Total number of regions is now 27064 of which 21692 are private estates & 5372 are Linden owned.

Wonder where you live....even in real life you cannot increase the rent to your tenants by 67% with no improvements. LL even wants to increase the rent by 67% with new limits on the sims, so you get less and have to pay more!

Guess you live in the US, we see where the subprime mortgages leaded the economy, that reminds me, LL is an US company : )

How about the ones that were willing to invest in SL and have a premium account? Is it justified to screw them? What is the benefit of having a premium account again? Anyone?

[QUOTE)Currently New Grayson consists of the single Harrington sim, but we are enrolling applicants for shares in a second sim, (tentatively to be named "White Haven" which we expect will be adjacent south of Harrington.[UNQUOTE] (from:http://docs.google.com/View?docID=dzt9989_55d3wd59ds&revision=_latest)

Reading your responses here and comparing that to what is said in the second quote made me curious Maggie. How much were you affected by the price change? How much did you loose due to those changes?

Well.your right to a point
When this increase was announced i went to openlife,(did;nt like it) went legend city (did'nt like it )
Unfortunately SL is way ahead of the competition,the $95 tier is still affordable but when the $125 kicks in i will be doing some serious thinking as to whether it is worth keeping my homestead
If on the other hand LL were to make homesteads available to non estate owners then it would still be affordable as i will be paying what i am paying now
And unfortunately because LL has the best around we have no choice but to stay if we want to enjoy a virtual world a good as sl is