Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Motivations and Goals

Quote " Hey, why don't we send all the criminals to Australia too, that way we'll never have to run into em again" Unquote.

Sorry we are full. Use the regular Immigration system to get in.

Personal Opinion, let the LL team get some bones on the concept, then start picking it to death.

Linden Lab has given us residents a Metaverse to populate and to build, with lot of freedom. This freedom has nurtured the creativity of the residents, permitting the creation of an extremely diverse and rich place. With time and a growing number of residents, there has been an increasing need for policing, increased by Linden Lab’s strong intensive to “attract big business” to SL. And now, LL wants to attract more people in SL, including teenagers (a lot of witch are already hidden among us).

I think that this mainstream audience will ask for more security from Linden Lab in two domains:
- technical reliability (in progress, but not at the level of other games, because for mainstream, SL is “a game”)
- security for it’s financial and emotional investment in SL, witch means stability in terrain prices, policies… In this domain LL has a reputation of changing major rules or tariffs on a whim, not caring about residents and island owners, and a laughable AR policy.
I thing it would be a lot more reasonable for LL to just try just to keep everything in SL legal in regard to law, with a stable, affordable, “web client” SL, and let the resident imagine what SL will be, and do things witch will attract more new residents and business in.

This new policy is just something highly unprofessional because :
- it’s saying to SL residents that they will have to let their freedom a the entrance, that other will decide if they are “naughty” (and remember, we are adults outside the Metaverse… or most of us I hope are)
- and it declares to mainstream audience that SL in a virtual place of sin and unabashed violence, witch is false, because a lot of places are nice and have nothing violent or more sexual than our adds at the bus stop in the streets in RL, and because island owners are generally policing their island to keep their customers (witch means in very diverse ways)

To put the last nail in the coffin, a lot of the points you are announcing seems to be either quite impractical or impervious to how SL works every day (adjudicating what’s PG/Mature/Adult is and the AR war it will send us in, how will the mainland be separated in “naughty” and “pure” areas without both breaking communities and SL geography, age verification: a LL myth that as not been quite functional since it's announcement…)

Would you be willing to identify this 2-4% and commit to not forcing anyone else to move?



This wasn't really the question. The question is: Why not *give an option* for the minority of offended people to move to a PG only continent? (Instead of tearing up the existing landmass).

HAHA, exactly.... the islands are full, how are they gonna fit all the porn migrants now?

... I'm not trying to pick apart anything except for a concept that's claiming to be an upcoming implementation that is truly half-baked at this point.

.... I'm just trying to imagine what people would say if this happened in the real world.... the decision to uproot millions and make them move based on a concept that has no bones.... meh

For interests sake, I just used Google Image Search using the word "sex" with 'safe search on' with "Use strict filtering (Filter both explicit text and explicit images)" selected.
The first image is a movie poster of a man chained upside down in ankle bonds. On the first page is also an image depicting two wooden dolls simulating sex. Neither of these would be allowed in a PG area in SL as the rules now stand.
Then I changed my preferences and removed 'safe search' - well, it's all right there isn't it? Didn't have to sign up, work out how to leave Orientation Island, it's right there in all it's glory for any kid to find.
So if Google has material that is much easier to get to and only requires you to say you're over 18, not actually prove it, what's the big fuss?
As I mentioned earlier my preferred method of implementing any type of restriction in SL (given TG & MG are not going to merge and enforcement of PG content is proactive) is:
The SL Client could include an option (on by default) that restricts users to PG areas unless they specifically change the client settings to allow them to enter Mature areas. "The region you are trying to reach is flagged Mature - explicit adult content may be present - do you wish to continue and allow adult content?"
Opting in protects those that don't want to confront adult content without the massive changes proposed by LL that will affect many peoples livelihoods.
I imagine Google's legal department have advised them well on the best way to restrict access to those who do not wish to view adult content while still making it available to those who do.
Why is LL being so draconian, Victorian and out of step with the wider online community?
Based on the premise we're all adults in SL, we are capable of making the choice to visit mature regions by ourselves.

This. For the love of all that is and isn't holy, this. I think this is far more respectful to the people that helped build this world, than shipping the undesirables off to a ghetto. Grandfather the existing land, and make a new sanitized continent.

Absolutely, less pain, more gain. However the new features are being tested on the beta grid so this looks like a done deal and all this feedback is the usual bluster from LL of pretending to open a dialogue when the door is firmly shut, I don't know why they keep doing this but I should be used to it by now.

i'm one of those who don't really care either way. like with the child AV thing.... i don't like it, but i ignore it for the most part.

i'm more concerned about the BDSM sims because most if not all of my friends list is someone related to BDSM in some way. i also work for a BDSM sim as a hostess at their club, i'm just wondering how it will affect the sim owners there.

my vampire clan also, how will it affect the vampires? (i'm talking about bloodlines).

i'm sure there are other factors i'm not taking into account, but i do hope that LL will be changing its whole grid causing a lot of players to.... oh i don't know quit?

if people quit (especially with paid accounts), there goes their paychecks and they lose possible future players who would want to pay for their accounts but aren't able to as of yet or they are new and are trying out SL for the first time.

Exactly Ananda!

Linden Lab:
if it all comes down to 2% - 4% that are not up to code, and only 2%-4% that would have to relocate... then there obviously wouldn't be a problem...

but why throw in a fictitious low-ball number just to try to sway us?

It's obvious it's not 2%-4% ... just in this forum alone there's a 50/50 mix.

You cannot ever claim 2%-4% because we know you just made that number up. We know that you don't in fact have that stat clocked. We know there's no way for you to gauge it.

Again, I will restate it again: LL does not have a titty monitoring committee... nor will they ever.

2-4% 0.o

i'm sorry, are we even on the same grid as LL? I can't do searches in SL WITH the mature filter on without getting sex sims in my results. And if a linden comes in and claims they aren't aware of this, they are full of it.

I would suggest seeing what percent of businesses in SL include mature themes in their metadata. I would suggest seeing how many houses in SL have sexbeds. Sure, if you look at the actual names of the sims and descriptions you MIGHT get 2-4%, but i doubt that is even believable.

The fact is, i don't go a day without happening across adult themed things, either in the search or wandering around. Advertising counts too, you know. I happened across a sim once with giant blenders and spits to put people on. I assume those would count?

What about Gor? Are slaves in silks "adult" content? If so, i have no effin clue how you can possibly believe the figures being posed. Had someone said 2-4% WEREN'T adult i would have found it far more believable.

I'm wondering if the 2-4% are places that are displaying explicit content in public, i.e where it's not supposed to be displayed even on a mature sim and should be taken down via existing policy and community standards.

The establishment of anonymous accounts in June 2006 opened the doors to underage players. This resulted in international legal scrutiny, increased exposure to legal liability and damaging media coverage. Linden Lab responded by intruding into residents' sexual relationships and expelling two consenting adults for underage roleplay - even though no underage players were involved. Refusal to close the anonymous accounts and dogged insistence on an ineffective and unsound ID-based age verification system cost Linden Lab considerable political capital with no benefit. Now, three years later, LL is trying to correct this mistake.

By definition, Second Life is VIRTUAL, VOLUNTARY and ADULT. Eliminating anonymous accounts, therefore, solves 50% of the problem. Instead of creating a complicated system of filters to prevent kids accessing adult content, keep them out of SL altogether.

Next problem. When constructing the mainland, Linden Lab established a patchwork of Mature and PG sims such that a loud BDSM club can open in a Mature sim next door to a quiet, residential home in a PG sim. The introduction of a third sim type, 'Adult', though badly named (all SL is adult by definition) - let us call it 'Xtreme' instead - makes good sense. Constructing an 'Xtreme' continent and patiently allowing residents to migrate there also makes good sense.

BUT...is LL now creating a new problem?

Yes. As has been known since the dawn of time - articulated again recently by the US Supreme Court - one man's obscenity is another man's beauty. To attempt to codify the wide range of human social norms into a regulatory system is folly. At best, it will generate high monitoring and enforcement costs; at worst, it will lead to confusion and conflict within the SL community. As for merging the teen grid with the main grid:

Teen Grid + Main Grid = Teen Grid.

the thing is, this can't be policed by area anyway. we carry adult content in our inventories. as someone said, i get sent to a linden hub naked, i am a violator. i see people who have forgotten to take off their prim bits WAY more often than anyone would like to...

Enforcing avatar appearance will be a huge can of worms. if i wear a thong and electical tape Xs, i assume that is PG by movie standards... yet... i am thinkin it isn't in their vision of what i should wear in their wholesome areas.

Why do we need to make any changes if their are 2 basic areas in Second Life.

1) PG
2) Mature

If folks would just respect these 2 different areas then we could live in harmony. After all wasn't this the intent of the 2 region rating system anyways? Am I missing something in this formua?

Yes, the Teen Grid merging with the main grid is missing from your formula, or as Deltango Vale put it:

Teen Grid + Main Grid = Teen Grid.

1: good idea but some adult things like furries needs kept same as before

2: if we could had more beta testing and more openess that would help

3: good idea - we like see more meetings and ideas without instant change

4: well good idea but we need a great system that's would help

i think we should have a long beta testing new system because last time the age verify didn't work there was failures in that so if we have parents system that's would be great

A lot of what you mention are on private islands not the mainland.

Since I'm not a native english speaker, I checked my translation book. Now I do know what an adult is. It is me, you and you and you and you too. We all are literal adult content, physicaly and mentaly, established inside of a bubble wich we call: world. Made by adult content (aka parents), grown up to be adult content and we will die as adult content.

If I look into the mirror in mornings and in evenings and at night, I see only adult content.

I don't see the point in the idea, to separate adults from adults, or separating part time very adults from part time very adults? Because we all are from time to time very adult. This can appear and go and appear and change every minute. No plan for that. It just happens.

Even the chancelor of my country is maybe in mornings a formal adult and in evenings he is very adult or vice versa. I am sure, because he has a wife and children. As far as I know, the chancelor of my country was not jumping on a different continent for creating his children in company with his very adult wife while he was in very adult mode. Maybe they both used their private rooms for being able to rezz a baby 9 months later, or they used their car, or the nudist lake in near of my town, or the woods or parks around, or the night-train from a to b, or a swinger club, hahaha, who knows? And sometimes all is just about: fun and exstasy/climax.

Take cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Paris, even Rome..., ad Moscow, Barcelona, Madrid, Lissabon, complete these with Vienna, Stockholm, Oslo, Munich, etc. - so: there are quarters and areas, where you have sexshops, porn-cinemas, brothels and red-light districts of all sorts on one side of the street and if you walk just a few steps further or if you just change the street side you have a kindergarden, a school, a church and average apartment - and shopping zones, communal parks and an opera house. Or think on Hamburg or Amsterdam... oh la la. All is mixed there too! I recommend to take a close look into the tourism -and city maps of these cities. In Frankfurt/Germany for example, the Deutsche Bank Building and much more other banks and big biz are sharing the same street and the same quarter of the city with a zone full of brothels and strip bars and other red-light etablissments and no one complains and anyone is free to walk through by free choice.

Even the Vatikan is in the middle of a City wich has no ambition to hide that there are millions of adults living, doing adult activities, while looking and being nothing more or less than: adults.

Second life is made by adults, driven by adults, adult prim artists and payed by adults, visited by adults, owned by adults and only allowed for adults, because it says: 18+

It is not Hollywood and not Disneyland. And it is not LEGOland.

With the idea to seperate adults from adults, we would be forced to live there in kind of a cloister or abbey, all day in formal clothes or very puritanic designed casual clothes.

With that idea, even the Louvre museum would be forced to leave Paris, because of the old masters paintings in there - and books of Dante and de Sade would be banned from open communal libraries.

In fact second life would be seperated into a huge disneyland-zone and a smaller zone for people wich are knowing that they are people.

If one, or if a group of persons is on a trip to live like in a cloister or an abbey, they can chose to buy an island or some, hiding it, closing it for visitors and banning themselfs from the rest of the world and living there as ascetics. But the majority should not be forced to do this.

Imagine a simple friendslist of a person in rl or so called sl. Would you like to seperate them from each other? Just by their look and feel and who knows by what personal adult preferences they may have?

No, the door is open for all of them, right?

The same it should be in secondlife. An open and open minded place for all, with no separations for some, except some who chose by themselfs to be separated. For all other adults and all expressions/impressions it should be open in general.

Other ideas, the more puritanic ones, can settle on a hidden and closed-for-public island. It is an old tradition, that ascetics leaving the community and going into desert for meditation and avoiding any pleasure, but it never happened that the community was forced to leave the ascetics and being transported into desert for having pleasure there...

It is (sl) a cosmopolitan thing and a metropolitan thing and should act as this and not as artificial Sesame-Street or Muppet-Show, especialy not as a puritan kind of apartheid-system. Tolerance and acceptance comes not by separation - it comes by facing the truth! And if it means to face literal the naked truth in any meaning. Therefore we are: adults.

/me cheers for TaraLi's excellent point.

That has never been the stance of freedom loving people. It is better to let a guilty man walk free than to imprison even one innocent person wrongfully.

Taibah Takahe said " I run a roleplay sim, which we list as mature because of the nature that the stories can turn. While there hasn't been instances of blatant sexual activity on the sim, often there is gore, violence and what I would consider mature content, but certainly not XXX content. If someone happens into our sphere of the world and hears someone tell another something what they consider offends them, that it is adultish content, will they only have to create a ticket to have us moved from mature to Adult rating? "

There is no sex in Ravenhurst? what about saturday feb 20th when your sim hosted some creapy things done to one of the roleplayers who decided to leave the sim and having others acting as their role to ridicule her for roleplaying with male charactors? I am positive that chat logs reviewed would say other wise about sex in your sim.
Sex gor extreme violence like your sim hosts is exactly the reason for age verification.

Then don't mix in areas where they might be offended, this sort of thinking gives even greater support to the concept of the new continent being a G-continent, although ideally they'd be on a different grid completely.

I suggest you use the Teen Grid.