Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Motivations and Goals

I can see problems with this, adult content can be pretty vauge , what's adult to some people may not be to others. I live and regularly am in a collective of medieval fantasy roleplaying sims, they aren't sex sims, but there is alot of violence, fighting, monsters, kidnapping, drinking etc. and i'm sure some players in their houses there do 'it'. if any of those were to cause these sims to be considered 'adult' and any and all players to the sims required to give credit card information or payment information for some 'age verification' then we'd be losing alot of people, as many (myself included) do not spend real money in SL, are on basic accoutns, and don't even have credit cards. I for one will never get a credit card, as I have lived fine without one. If this causes it so they can only go to pg malls and business sims, then alot of people will have no reason to logg on and will just leave.

things have worked fine as they are with the teen grid being there for minors, and adults on the adult grid being able to make their own decisions what sort of sim to go to, so why change it? this is going to go over about as well as the collision bug you caused trying to stop people from being in combat, when a sim could as easily turn off damage and scripts themselves to prevent it.

LL seems to believe strongly in "If it's not broke, break it"

To be clear, the blog states there are three main features involved in this change:

* Provide a way to geographically separate Adult content to a new part of the “mainland” designed
* Filter search results, so that those who do not wish to see “Adult” results will not
* Require that those who access or see “Adult” content (whether on land or in search) have had their accounts verified – such as by a payment or age verification method.

Via the announcement/forum conversations today (and ongoing conversations over the next few weeks) Linden Lab is seeking input from many segments of the Second Life community to help define and qualify the open questions about how to go about this.

We've decided we want to provide those three things above, and we're now looking for your thoughts, feedback and other suggestions for how to go about it. We're hoping to use this forum and other conversations still to come to gather more information from the Second Life Residents in an effort to engage in useful, relevant and above all productive conversations on these changes.

You already do this - it is called having Mature and PG regions.




Already possible by toggling the Mature checkbox in search



Already possible for land by setting the access controls accordingly. You need a client change to prevent those without payment or age verification checking the Mature checkbox in search - or better a server change so that the server ignores the mature search setting when a search is sent for unverified accounts (to prevent third party clients working around this)

Matthew

This:



Does not square with this:



Are the goals open to debate (as Jp Linden says) or not (as Jeska Linden says)?

Will the goals be reconsidered if the pain of implementing them on residents is too high?

And though Jp Linden invites us to ask the whys of the goals, none of my posts with specific questions on the whys have been answered.

Create a G-Rated continent, police your sims properly to take down adult content where it shouldn't be appearing and police search so adult content doesn't appear in the wrong places, voila, everyone is happy.

Moving existing resdidents, forcibly moving them, is not a sensible policy unless, you're going to merge the grids of course.

Jeska, I am sure that you will not take this personally, but really, "we have decided to do X, Y and Z and are now looking for how to to do them" is daft. The obvious interpretation is that LL has decided to do X, Y and Z and is not going to do anything significantly different based on what is posted here in the forums.

What could possibly be changed? What details are up for discussion? Creating five threads doesn't actually define what is and is not already undecided and how it might be changed. Why should we bother without a clear idea of what can be affected and how?

This would be the best action to take.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood. The decision to make this policy did already happen.

Now, can you PM me to *wink* about the enforcement? Another unenforced policy seems like your only saving grace.

JP, no offense intended, but tell that to the child avatar community after the 5th birthday debacle.

I don't believe that Jp was around for that.

It doesn't feel like LL is open to input. Instead, as many have pointed out, it feels like a decision has been made and now it is just about giving people a place to vent about it.

I am all for age verification. My concern is the segregation of "adult" content. It seems much more sensible to create a PG mainland and allow those who wish to reside there to move. It seems to me that LL is trying to make SL cleaner for universities and other educational/business organizations that wish to bring members in and not have them subjected to the variety that is SL. That is great and I think it is needed, but you are going about it backwards.

Allow those who want a PG land to build it. By its growth you will know how import this really is. By segregating out (in your opinion) questionable content you run the risk of ruining the variety that may of us enjoy. ithe only way to know how important "clean" regions are is to build one and see how it develops.

Whoever, came up with this plan clearly has never used SL and isn't aware of the controls SL already has in terms of flagging content and parcels/estates as PG or Mature.

How about improving the controls already in place, and carefully thinking about aggregating and seperating PG and Mature areas when designing new continents - rather than recreating the controls already in place but with different names?

Matthew

Maybe they have done that, actually. Maybe they have noticed that schools and nonprofits are growing faster in SL than strip clubs and malls.

Many schools and non-profits are in SL in order to recruit and advertise themselves - i.e. to go where their audience is. Remove the reasons their audience is in SL in the first place, and there isn't much reason for them to remain in SL.

However, my main concern is not with flagging content per se, but that we already have mechanisms for flagging content. Why not build and improve on those, rather than create a whole new system which doesn't seem to offer anything more than the existing system (and indeed seems to include the existing weaknesses) but seems designed to cause confusion, anger and disruption to LL's existing customers?

Matthew

Who is the ‘average’ SL user? Why do they choose to come to spend a slice of their time here? Any honest answer would have to include the freedom to simulate those things that are inaccessible (for the vast majority) in RL. Sex and if not the primary reason the option to explore the forbidden when one chooses is a very real if unstated draw. To ignore that aspect of its residents would mean certain death for SL a fact that I am sure is always on the mind when the Lindens explore the future of SL. Other reasons? yeah, millions at least one for every visitor who comes and stays.

Does that mean SL is a typical internet ‘sex site’? Of course not as those of us who choose to spend leisure and work time here know.

The Lindens have created a messy, amorphous, impossible world that exists in the imagination and creativity of millions. It’s always been obvious to me that they fully realize the strangeness and transcendence of the project and have never lost that feeling, though trying to manage it as an RL business must border on the impossible.

The choice was to not manage the, physiological, emotional side of it, unless backed into a corner, when protecting the enterprise required it. Idealistic and impossible.

Taking offence at particular situations is not a concrete thing. I don’t expect to find a sex palace in my local shopping mall and I don’t want it in SL its confusing. If I want that I will go to where it is ‘normal’ and be comfortable with the fact its there.

We don’t want SL to be RL but I think the RL model for ‘adult’ content works just fine here and is in fact the only workable solution for SL’s future. Marginalize it, make it something you have to seek out, keep it separate, quarantined. It’s there just a TP away.
I think it’s clear they don’t want to regulate the activities of consenting adults on private property; you want to jam your cam through the window that’s your issue.
I do think a single classification of adult is to simplistic, maybe a movie rating system PG to XXX would make more sense. How that would be classified would be a source of endless argument.

Business and money in SL. I hope the Lindens make their fortunes, the investors are happy, the money flows, the system improves and is here for a long time.
Corporate involvement, yes! Lots of it, their money is important. SL could be a valuable platform for business functions, advertising, promotions… but they won’t come if a presence on SL isn’t worth the compromise of being here. They also won’t come if the traffic isn’t there and they realize why the traffic is here, just don’t rub their faces in it.

Tolerance and patience then, let the Lindens work out a model that accommodates most of us, it won’t be easy, mistakes will be made and some will be hurt.

SL is a playground, our sandbox, a place to explore others and ourselves if it stops providing what we want, we won’t come and it will fail. Then what? - pretty, disconnected video games, irc chat, TV in place of those few hours here.

PG and mature are bad ways of defining things. PG ratings in movies allow many things that LL's description of "Adult" won't allow. Not to mention the acceptability of things like nudity in various cultures.

They have to make their own standard. But i will reiterate, Phil has stated the era of separate grids for teens and adults is over. I don't have adult things on my land, and i still don't want kids on it. Where does that leave me? I have to tell people my land is "adult", and therefore avoided by people and searches that want rid of sexual material, just because i don't want to deal with adolescents.

I can walk into a store in a busy shopping centre and buy adult content RL, in lingerie shops for example, the shop isn't pushed away into some different zone. I can also walk by lap dancing bars and adult entertainment. None of these places have explicit adverts outside, I'd have to venture in and that's pretty much what the community standards imply that already exist only here we have a mature/PG distinction already.

Yes, but the point that YOU ALL KEEP MISSING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN..... ... .. . .

.. is that you SHOULD have consulted us BEFORE making those decisions, because there ARE better alternatives to what you want to accomplish than what you have decided upon.

To blithely stand there and ask for customer input which amounts to little more than parameter adjustment and spit/polish on a turd, then try to pass it off like you're being inclusive of our wishes at every level of importance is insulting in the extreme.

Jeska, I ponder, what do you think about when you think of us, your customers? I mean, really. Are we smart people? Do you consider us equals? Do you consider that we are mature and know what is good for us, as well as have a fair idea of what is good for Linden Lab? Or are we just some children to you, or, better yet, mindless animals, whom you have to "care for" and "protect", like a shepherd tends to a herd of sheep?

Seems like every time something like this comes up, customer input is solicited only LONG AFTER the structure and nature of a change has been decided on. It's like only LL is qualified to make decisions on the skeleton and musculature of an idea, and resident input is only needed for the skin and make-up.

Please, if you're going to deny this, you had better be prepared to back it up; as it stands now, it is beyond clear to anyone with two neurons to bang together what is happening, so empty denials aren't going to work out. If you are REALLY, REALLY interested in "doing the right thing for your residents", you will step up to the podium and state your willingness to change the core of your plans after listening to what we have to say, if what we say can be agreed to be a better solution than the one you've already planned for us beforehand.

OK, we change the labels in the client (where it currently says "Mature" it says "Adult" for instance and a similar relabelling for PG.) and do an appropriate global search and replace in the help and knowledge base; and we tighten up the definitions of what is permissible in the Adult and non-Adult areas.

Matthew

What about ending up in an infohub naked through one of SL's many "quirks"?

"Your region is not available, here's a random infohub!

I've already seen the results of a "mature" areas going under.

In order to prevent unnecessary and uncalled for AR's (naked at an infohub), is the "random infohub" technique of dealing with outages going to be updated?

Oh, and I think they're a bit out of touch with the user base.

It might be far easier to move all the people who want a PG-only experience to a new continent.

making people choose between pg only and mature only sims is foolish.

people who want to adopt sl kids often live on mature sims. rp sims are often mature.

its not all blood and guts. some us just like mild violence and shooting advancing zombies with slingshots and melon launchers.

maybe rating sims in lms and searches would be better. a heads up. like "this sim is rated x for sexual content and explicit violence. you've been warned"

"this sim is rated x for sexual material."
"this sim is a combat zone. if you tp in you'll be shot at"


people will find what they are looking for and no one should have to move. it would just be easier for to avoid if you don't like it.

In principle the idea of having public Adult areas in their own district makes sense, and it's something you might zone and design for *ahead of time*. Unfortunately, SL wasn't designed that way. It's got vast legacy areas of mixed PG/Mature sims, *no such thing* as privacy on the mainland, and thus not really any clear way to distinguish between what is a privately held activity and what is a public one. This creates problems when you try and go in *after the fact* and say all this area where adult activities used to be ok, that's not ok any longer.

We've had a few winks that "private" stuff will be overlooked. That's good... but does private stop when there are more than two avatars in an area, or when there's more than 10... what's the cutoff on "private"?

When RL zoning laws go into effect, it generally takes decades for the changes to work their way through, and many, many court cases as well. SL didn't have to do things that way. They can create land on a whim, so they could have simply said, "here's a new Adult zone, here's a new Family zone, anyone who wants only these things can move there if they want. Everyone who doesn't care can stay where they are." Nope, they had to go the jackboots route.

Cyn's just updated the blog post (https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/03/12/upcoming-changes-for-adult-content ) with the following FAQs as some additional clarification:

[UPDATE]

Thanks for all the great feedback and conversation so far! We're going to post some clarifying information here and in the forums right now. Tomorrow we'll be back in to catch up on the overnight feedback, and keep the dialogue going.


-- How much of SL is adult oriented content?
Based on our research, we estimate that around 2-4% of content on the mainland would be considered Adult according to our current thinking on defining that. For all of Second Life, our content research shows it is around 5%. In other words, 95% of Second Life either mature or PG.. Again, we estimate that only around 2-4% of the mainland parcels would need to either relocate or reconfigure to meet the requirements in our current thinking, but of course we are looking for your feedback to help define that.

-- What about adult activity in private on the mainland? e.g. Is Linden Lab making rules about what I can do in my own house on the Mainland?
Nope. We are talking about public behavior and events, businesses and listings that are meant to drive explicit sexual and violent activity.

-- What about objects/avatars/groups that some consider inherently related to specific sexual activities or preferences - e.g. furries, sexy clothing, etc. - will that be considered 'Adult content'?
We're still working on tight definitions (which we'd like your help with) on what is considered Adult, but in general sexy clothing, skins, and furries aren't inherently explicitly sexual, and stay in the Mature areas (i.e. won’t need to move to the Adult continent).

-- Is all content currently classified 'Mature' going to have to move to the Adult continent?
No. Our research found an estimated 2-4% of the mainland parcels would need to either relocate or reconfigure to meet the requirements, based on our current definitions of Adult content, which again, is an area where we’d appreciate your feedback.

-- Why not make all PG content move to a new continent?

Both PG and Adult are the exception, rather than the rule, in Second Life. We would prefer to keep the majority of the content and interaction where it is currently – the Mature regions.

Why not a G-rated continent?
This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service.

How does this apply to combat sims, can you provide examples of what would be allowed?
Combat sims are mature, think R rated movie. If part of that is lots of blood and gore, that would be considered Adult. Again, the precise definitions are something we’re still working on and would welcome your input in the forum thread devoted to this topic.

What happens to my personal data? Will it get shared with a 3rd party when I verify my account?
Our 3rd party age verification provider uses several types of data to verify your account, but they do not store the data or use it in any other way.

What decisions are Residents going to be able to impact?
We are open to talking about many aspects of the change – timeline, more granular definitions of mature vs Adult, how those who need to move want to make that work. We know some of you are asking for a more definitive timeframe – that is part of the ongoing conversation, what is reasonable in your view?

Can you talk about the decision making process and what the timeline for decision making will look like?

Over the past year or so we have been hearing from a growing number of you that the experience in Second Life needed to change. We gathering a great deal of feedback and data, and then sat down and tried to imagine how we could serve most needs best. What we came to is that we didn't need to change very much about Second Life to meet the majority of those needs. As we've stated, nearly all inworld content, events and classifieds will stay as there are. For some events and businesses, you will now have a place where you can target your audience and reach the people who are looking for the goods and services you provide.

In the next few weeks we will hold several inworld meetings to discuss the timeline and other open questions around definitions and helping people who want to move or want more guidance around tagging, and events and classifieds.

How is it currently unavoidable? I don't look for sex every day in SL and every day I don't find it. Why are the people that don't want xxx in their face getting xxx in their face? Currently there is mature and PG, anyone can simply not enter mature to avoid it, what is the problem? OOOH... the problem is that people are complaining that mature sims are having some very fun and interesting events that don't always have xxx content. Well... I say either they can be offendable and simply stay on their own land or PG sims... or they can go to MATURE marked sims and risk seeing what they see. And they still can ALWAYS teleport right out.



This I am perturbed about. Since when has SL been about making it a predictable experience? When has that become something residents (or even LL) have been seeking? To me, it seems that the residents want predictability on the tech side, making sure logins work and items arent lost in inventory.
Who has ever exclaimed they wanted predictability inworld when they decide to teleport to someone else's sim? ... they only want the teleport to actually work.... but the REASON that people teleport to other people's sims is NOT in search of predictability.
Predictability also is NOT making all established mainland adult content MOVE to islands. That in fact, is the complete opposite of predictable. It seems to me like "unpredictability" is one of the major fascinations about OTHER PEOPLE'S LAND....
if people knew what to expect, why would they even go?

do the ends justify the means? pushing people out? banishing? segregating? dividing cultures? outright losing SL users! does doing all that justify the HOPES that one day SL will be inexplicably clean and G-rated on the mainland? (has LL hired a mainland titty reporting committee?)