Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Motivations and Goals
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Renee Faulds
Rises Out Of The Ashes
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 87
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03-14-2009 13:01
From: Vye Graves This thread is about "Motivations and Goals". The opinion I find everywhere is LL doesn't like their core users, do not see a future in what they created, and would be happy to make SL a new thing entirely. Every single person that I have expressed that opinion to, including creators who make their RL living in SL, agrees with me.
Banks? F-you, eat the loss. Casinos? F-you, eat the loss. Buy an openspace today? Two weeks later... f-you the price you agreed to is invalid. Don't like it? F-you, leave. Mafioso mentality, with a prudish twist. Las Vegas without casinos and sex. Not even crappy stage shows or Celine Dion. Empty pyramids. Ponder it.
Business and education better users than us? Well, let's see if they pay, as we have, for years. They come to SL, build a ghosttown sim, grab all the free press they can, and leave. Virtual board rooms? Please. They have all the videoconferencing they need. Why make barbies?
Time and effort is being spent on this hamfisted dust-up, while untold numbers of feature requests by people who actually PRODUCE income for LL have been ignored, for years. I build 90% of the time when I am in SL, almost two years, and the same annoyances are still right there waiting for me when I log in, WHEN I can log in. I haven't been able to for 3 hours now.
Well, right now LL, those users you don't like don't like you, either. You are basically telling us once every three or four months, "If you don't like it, f- off". Sadly, we are the ones ready, willing, and able to pay you consistently for your service. We love the world you seem to be ashamed of now.
Like the Internet as a whole, when people who love the endeavor for what it is rule, it booms. The talentless, officious, administrative leeches wrecking SL will just get paid big to wreck some other endeavor after "our" world is gone or sold to Yahoo. On behalf of users who love the world you created, I implore you to tell THEM to f-off.
Please. ponder whether these motivations and goals really have any promise. TOTALLY AGREE !!!!!!!!!!! |
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Vye Graves
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
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03-14-2009 13:02
Brett Finsbury: Seriously, you know absolutely nothing about Gor. It's the height of irony that you are smearing people out of ignorance while being part of a ethnic group that has fought that very thing for generations. Good luck with your personal integrity. I can't reason out of you what wasn't reasoned into you.
I suggest you take at least a little time and learn about the roleplay you are talking about. Otherwise, what's the point in talking to you? If you ask the average gorean, they will tell you nothing they do in Gor has anything to do with Native Americans.
If you are pretending that any primitive aboriginal clothing is by it's nature "Native American" then, again, you are too ignorant to really discuss this with. As I said, Gor is a science fiction novel. They are roleplaying just like vampire roleplayers, etc. Grow up and stop doing to people what you don't want done to you.
EVERYONE in the world of Gor was kidnapped and taken to a different planet by aliens. Come on. This is not Mein Kampf. Why not be out there with torches and pitchforks hunting those skeery vampires.
P.S. I spent half my life living within miles of the Cherokee reservation in North Carolina. I never once got from Gor that it was abusive to Native Americans. I am well acquainted with the circumstances behind the Trail of Tears and I am deeply offended you could use such a crime as any sort of metaphor here.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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03-14-2009 13:06
From: Nany Kayo Corporate, nonprofit and educational institutions need access to the entire worldwide population of SL. They are here to connect with a worldwide market. They need to be open to the public.
On the other hand, people having sex dont need to be open to the public. You would think they would want everyone who sees them to be verified. Oh my. According to the current plan, these lucky corporate, nonprofit and educational institutions will soon have thousands of empty Mainland sims "open to the public"--while the public has happily moved over where all the cool kids are. And that's assuming it's even in LL's interest to expand the institutional market in the first place. I doubt it. Currently, other landowners deeply subsidize the educational and non-profit land; hence the generous discounts. And corporate clients are subsidized in a different way: our tier and fees are what funds that marketing budget--an endeavor still knee-deep in red ink. I so wish LL would start running SL like a real business: courting high-margin customers instead of the ones responsible for bloating the overhead. |
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ninjafoo Ng
Just me :)
Join date: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 713
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03-14-2009 13:09
From: Nany Kayo the problem with Gors is that they are extremely offensive to Native Americans. If people what to engage in that activity, they should do it in private.
The public display of Native American women as slaves and Native American women as sex objects at all deters Natives from using Second Life. It's harmful to Native Americans. It encourages demeaning imagery that is harmful to Natives. There is no reason to tolerate that kind of behavior.
No one should be using SL to get their kicks at someone else's expense. Firstly its Gor, and the people are Gorean. Its a fictional fantasy world. You will not find anything there that doesnt exist within the D/s scene in SL, or the D/s scene in RL. Those who choose to partake in D/s style relationships come from all cultures, not just native americans. If its offensive to you. Don't get into D/s. SIMPLE AS THAT
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Vye Graves
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
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03-14-2009 13:13
I wonder if the roleplay based on Deadwood and other old west themes is offensive, too. I watched the show, and I know how they talked about Native Americans on Deadwood. I guess that goes too?
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Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 13:37
Vye Graves These are the first two Gorean businesses selling items that are racist and demeaning to Native Americans in general and Native American women in particular. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Quokka/53/65/98http://slurl.com/secondlife/Council%20Rock/237/214/561The first one has a Potowatami flag flying over sex beds. It may be difficult to understand how offensive that is if you have no idea how many people fought and died for that flag. To have someone steal a national symbol that has been so hard won and use it to sell filth that harms Natives is very offensive. The second slurl leads directly to a shop exploiting Native culture and Native women to recruit Gorean slaves. Whatever the origin of these stories, they do not belong in public. |
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Nany Kayo
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Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 13:38
From: Vye Graves I wonder if the roleplay based on Deadwood and other old west themes is offensive, too. I watched the show, and I know how they talked about Native Americans on Deadwood. I guess that goes too? It is. Would you pretend to be Jewish? Why would anyone pretend to be Native American? |
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Nany Kayo
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Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 13:39
From: ninjafoo Ng Firstly its Gor, and the people are Gorean. Its a fictional fantasy world. You will not find anything there that doesnt exist within the D/s scene in SL, or the D/s scene in RL. Those who choose to partake in D/s style relationships come from all cultures, not just native americans.
If its offensive to you. Don't get into D/s.
SIMPLE AS THAT It is harmful to Native Amercians when it is public view. |
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Renee Faulds
Rises Out Of The Ashes
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 87
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Maybe Linden Lab Should Consider This "FIRST"
03-14-2009 13:39
Create a "new" continent called:
Your Lost Inventory Is Here
People would flock to that one !!!!
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Vye Graves
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
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03-14-2009 13:41
Ah, the Jewish thing. I expected it, and i got it. So, WWII cobat roleplay is out then, too. Where does this end? Do you not see how utterly horrid what you are doing is? You are telling people what they can and can't do. You are telling people where they can and can't be.
I believe in liberty. I believe you can walk away from anything that offends you.
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Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 13:43
It will be nice to not have to argue about this stuff when LL moves this stuff out of the view of people who haven't asked to look at it.
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Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 13:44
From: Vye Graves Ah, the Jewish thing. I expected it, and i got it. So, WWII cobat roleplay is out then, too. Where does this end? Do you not see how utterly horrid what you are doing is? You are telling people what they can and can't do. You are telling people where they can and can't be.
I believe in liberty. I believe you can walk away from anything that offends you. I don't want Native Americans walking away from Second Life. That's not acceptable. |
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Renee Faulds
Rises Out Of The Ashes
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 87
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Me thinks..........
03-14-2009 13:44
all Governor Linden land should be rated "ADULT" as they are the 'worst" offenders of screwing people in public......
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Fmagick Zymurgy
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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Motivations and Goals
03-14-2009 13:49
I am not sure of the real motivations, but if the goal is to remove content that others may find offensive, then you might as well pull the plug right now. Everything is offensive to someone, somewhere, sometime.
If you take a poll I would imagine that almost all of the users of SL are offended by large corporations who employ third world workers at slave wages, hire "contract workers" to avoid paying benefits, inflate their corporate bottom line to rip off share holders, sell shoddy products at inflated prices, etc, etc...
I find people with power and money that try to bully their way into things and buy their way out of trouble to be much more offensive than any random sex act I may stumble across.
if we want to get to the real motivations of this change all we need to do is follow the money, I am sure someone has figured out how to make this pay big, because it is obviously not a big problem in desperate need of a solution.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
--Voltaire
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Vye Graves
Registered User
Join date: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
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03-14-2009 13:55
From: someone I don't want Native Americans walking away from Second Life. That's not acceptable. K. What about fundamentalist Islam? Should we bow to all that offend them so they don't walk away? Shall i cover my face? Exactly which groups do you feel are important enough not to offend, and which aren't? A flag over a sex bed offends you. I see anti-American, anti-Isreal sentiment and propaganda that i think is over the top. Shall we stop that? Where exactly does your little model end? |
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Stephan Mrigesh
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 20
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Their Goes Another G-Note
03-14-2009 13:57
From: Nany Kayo Actually, we want to sell to the whole world. Everyone is most welcome to buy. So, because it is deeply offensive in Cat Man Do to touch a persons behind it must be outlawed here where we are supposed to be free to explore our imaginations? Hmm, then the whole point of having a Second Life is pointless. Thanks |
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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03-14-2009 14:14
From: Nany Kayo It will be nice to not have to argue about this stuff when LL moves this stuff out of the view of people who haven't asked to look at it. You are right. No one is asking you to look at it actually, because SL is voluntary. No one is forcing you to be in SL at all. It is your choice. You seem to be on some kind of witch hunt. Perhaps you should isolate yourself from the rest of us? Maybe you should be asking SL for a clean grid all to yourself and those who share your views? I really hope you do not think SL actually intends to cater completely to your ideas of what is acceptable in SL?
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Adams Scarmon
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 34
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03-14-2009 14:15
From: Nany Kayo I don't want Native Americans walking away from Second Life. That's not acceptable. Not walking away from SL, but walking a way from a sim/situation they are feeling uncomfortable in! Nobody forces a Jew to join a WW2 roleplay sim? - It sounds harsh, but look at the meaning of it. SL should be a place where *everybody* finds fun and experiences something nice. |
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Mistletoe Ethaniel
Token Elf
Join date: 6 Jun 2008
Posts: 3
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03-14-2009 14:15
In response to Nany Kayo's comments:
Gor clearly offends you. It offends me to. So, I stay out. It's really not very difficult to do. I want nothing personally to do with their way of life and if I never saw it again, grand. But it's not up to me to decide that they can't be here; what I get to decide is whether or not I go there.
When you start sanitizing the world (Real or Second) to protect everyone in from the possibility of being offended, you start a slippery slope. Never mind the fact that it's really just not possible to do. When did being offended become such a huge worry anyway? When did our skins get so damn thin?
That said, the thread is called "Motivations and Goals". What I have yet to see is a clear answer as to the motivation for this change. What has happened, or what is planned to happen, that makes LL decide that we, as ToS abiding adults, can't handle things ourselves the way we have been? Was it a threat of legal action? Is it to look better in the media than you have (here's a suggestion there: fix the lag and stop making sweeping bad business decisions that affect so many)? We should know this.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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03-14-2009 14:18
From: Vye Graves I wonder if the roleplay based on Deadwood and other old west themes is offensive, too. I watched the show, and I know how they talked about Native Americans on Deadwood. I guess that goes too? There's some themed sims robots,plants, aliens, demons and vampireswould find offensive too, better remove them as well.
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Nany Kayo
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Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 14:33
From: Ryanna Enfield You are right. No one is asking you to look at it actually, because SL is voluntary. No one is forcing you to be in SL at all. It is your choice. You seem to be on some kind of witch hunt. Perhaps you should isolate yourself from the rest of us? Maybe you should be asking SL for a clean grid all to yourself and those who share your views? I really hope you do not think SL actually intends to cater completely to your ideas of what is acceptable in SL? The mission is to use virtual worlds technology, including Second Life, to help create and sustain Native American communities. Gors and whores get in the way of that goal. So I want them removed from view. Real straightforward. |
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Adams Scarmon
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 34
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03-14-2009 14:33
then why not remove all the skin shops as well? They show naked people..  |
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Renee Faulds
Rises Out Of The Ashes
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 87
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So let's get this straight....
03-14-2009 14:41
We have:
The Teen Grid
The Adult Grid
The "We Screwed You Out Of Your Open Space Grid"
and the upcoming:
Adult Adult Grid
next:
The "We Could Care Less About You Grid"
oh sry that grid already here.........................
next:
The "We Only Care About The Corporate People Grid"
you know them......
They the ones with all the No Payment Info On File employees that came here once for a Grand Opening meeting and have never come back. They the ones that DO NOT create content but want us to follow "thier" rules. They the ones NOT busting their asses to make money here and "are" the minority.
So me thinks a, "We Only Care About The Corporate People Grid" is the way to go.
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Nany Kayo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 301
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03-14-2009 14:46
From: Stephan Mrigesh So, because it is deeply offensive in Cat Man Do to touch a persons behind it must be outlawed here where we are supposed to be free to explore our imaginations?
Hmm, then the whole point of having a Second Life is pointless.
Thanks Maybe it's pointless for you, Stephan. I have a very clear reason to be here. People in Cat Man Do will need to plead their own case. I'm not familiar with it. |
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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03-14-2009 14:48
From: Nany Kayo The mission is to use virtual worlds technology, including Second Life, to help create and sustain Native American communities. Gors and whores get in the way of that goal. So I want them removed from view.
Real straightforward. Well then, I applaud your mission. It seems like a very worthy cause, though I must say some of the things you have said could be deemed offensive. However, I feel you have every right to express your opinion, which you have done very clearly. Best of luck to you.
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