Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

A lot of the owners in the region I'm in are trying to buy up all the 16m plots left peppered around. I recently group deeded my land so I can pick up a couple myself without having to tier up. The problem is, while the adboxes were taken down, the parcels are either no longer for sale, price at L$740 or more per 16m, or the worst one... banlined off and filled with light emitting junk prims. (>_<

None of the micro-plot owners will respond to IMs and ARing the junk prim parcel goes nowhere. Our goal is one big playground/park but, we still have holes here and there from people that value their 16m plots sooooooo greatly. (T_T)

The ultra high priced parcels rely on an inducement to force their sale, banlines, adverts etc. true these inducements have been removed, new inducements will be found though and if one parcel is sold then it will pay for the upkeep of the others.
9999L is around 40usd, the tier for 8604sqm thats 573 16's set to group, Eventually some are going to sell 40usd is very little to pay while you wait anyway, when 1% of parcels sold is very likely on a monthly basis and gives 200usd income.

Yeah, something fishy is going on with handling of adfarm ARs. I get the feeling somehow the breathtakingly incompetent G-Team is back in the act (instead of Concierge), and that sorry lot has had a soft spot for adcutters all along. I base this on the following, fresh from my inbox, in response to a Concierge ticket for an adfarm violation:
As it happens, I filed ARs at the same time (yesterday), citing the support ticket. And of course the violations reported in that ticket remain.

If Concierge isn't handling this themselves the prospects of any lasting improvements to the Mainland are very grim indeed.

This is exactly why market forces are not going to work, cheap land is around 3.1L/sqm if people in the sim want to clear it up then ad farmers can just cut the plot up and double the price to around 6.25L, you are going to buy them because you want to get rid of the mess, they leave just one plot not on sale, you contact them and find this last plot is a crazy price.
Thing is though you want it because its the last one, the only plot left darkening the Sim and you just don't want to see what they are going to put out next.

If you have a plot with banlines and glowing prims AR it again, that is against the new policy, at least you won't have to look at that particular mess any more.

I quite understand your point of Veiw, because I have a land that do not optimize my tier 6XXX sqm. I would obviously expand to the max possible in my tier range. But my region is full. The only solution would be move to other SIM, but as mainland is today any parcel can be bought and subdivided.

You can go to an organized land and after a year the SIM be a mess (happened to me before).

The only solution is to make a Zone control to avoid this.

I agree with LL that this is very dificult with the mainland because some people will not want to sell their land. I am personally in front of Lindem sea, in a very nice place, so I am very worried to change.

Also it is very unfair that people have to sell their land cheap so they move. this cause many of the desistence to own land we see today. Because as I say above. You may go to a nice SIM ans after some month see the land destroyed again.

So I believe that LL should do the zone in a new continent, but also allow peole that already own land and voluntary want, migrate to the new continent exchanging land with the old.

There was something said once about some of what LL wanted to do was to keep land prices healthy but at a level that is low enough to interest new residents in buying land. If that is truly their interest, then there needs to be an effort to clean up even empty but high priced parcels.

Even an appealing entry level price will never attract people if its impossible to ever have a reasonable shaped/sized parcel because of large scale cutting.

To set a price that includes both current land price and the cost of tier would ultimately make land unaffordable for everyone.

While those who cry free market sit on their unsold land, it would be good to at least clean up the extremes of land extortion. 14999L for a 16 or random "corners" is a good place to start.

FYI:

I realized yesterday that the test client has a different Report Abuse pull down menu...with tons more of options...than the official older viewer. So, I'm thinking (not really supported by the too quiet Lindens on this), that since there's more options to report in the Test Viewer...it would be easier for them to receive and process the reports via that client than the older one. Worth a try. Download the newer client and use it to report ad spam (there's an actual pull down menu item for AD SPAM...in the newer viewer). Hope this helps some...

There are plenty of reasonable shaped/sized plots and parcels avaialble at very cheap prices all over the mainland. They're on sale right now.



No it would be very bad foir Linden Lab to interfere in such an area. Their role is being fulfilled by dealing with extortion, they have no business dictating what price an individual should set a parcel for sale for, the same as they have no business dictating what price an individual should sell an item for.

Well from me it's a big thanks to Jack and his team. One simple AR has cleared the sim of non-conforming ads. And yes I did use the new RC viewer. it has specific "Harrassment: adfarm/visual spam" choice in the AR drop down menu.

Well... you have to admit, this is a pretty flawed simile, unless there's some way to place an absurdly high price on an item and thereby reduce the value of a bunch of other items.

That's not to say I like the idea of LL having to set some kind of price cap on microparcels. But I don't know that any of the other proposals are any more palatable. I am quite sure that the "free market" won't resolve this to anybody's satisfaction--least of all, LL's--because that completely artificial "market" hugely favors microparcels. We saw where that took us when prim-based extortion was permitted, but there's plenty more where that came from, prims not required.

Yeah, I used that viewer too. As much as I'd like to believe that my ARs may eventually be addressed, I don't really harbor much illusion that they haven't already decided to blow them off. If it were Concierge, I'd expect an explanation in the ticket response. But if that AR actually got handed off to G-Team now, all bets are off. (Remember, that was the bunch that let themselves get hoodwinked into a special "right to visual access" useful only to adfarmers.)

And that would be a shame because, I agree, the initial response was stunningly effective in reducing visual spam. At least for a while, I'm going to try to believe that the ball isn't already in the process of being dropped.

You're looking at it from the wrong angle, people are calling for Linden Lab to restrict the price that parcels can be sold for, if Linden Lab restricted the price that items should be sold for because newbs couldn't afford them there would be uproar, indeed many were up in arms when Anshe said pretty much that.



There is no real extortion issue now. Microparcels hold a lot less sway. The donut hole issue is the only striking issue now. Having a 16M parcel empty and unoccupied pretty much hurts nobody. No banlines, no flashing full bright ad tower. The tools are being taken away. I've picked up three abandoned 16M parcels already and purchased a further three at reasonable rates.

I really would like to think that these are changing. But I AR'd small parcel banlines next to me before 10/1. On 10/1 they were still there. I even had a G-Team member pop up almost right behind me after I AR'd one of these on 10/1. Yet both sets are still there.

The towers can still be full bright, not sure that flashing isn't even taken away.

It's already Oct. 3rd. people keep talking about it and I keep having my sunset blocked by a huge brick wall and a huge red flashing sign that's infront.

On one side, HUGE bright red ugly domes "decorating" my home.

I keep wondering if that will ever go away? Is it fair?

Well it's important that he gets the infamy he deserves, so all can see his colors. The competition to be the best griefer in SL is pretty fierce........................

I've seen a few adfarms dissappear

Let me give you all a little story. I purchased 1/2 of a roadside sim, fairly cheap. Robo saw an opportunity to purchase one the the cheap lots across from me and cut out a road section for ad space. He dumped the remaining lot and the Ninja bots grabbed it and eventually it was resold. I DO NOT MIND THIS PRACTICE. What came later was the big signs from Cyrethra Eagle. That blew my property values..... but get this.. what was really the worst was the idiot landowner crying saying how these little lots cropped up in front of his land. Well buddy they were already there. Thats what property line viewing is for. He procedes to erect "Protest" mega prim blocks, multiples of them and won't take them down until his problem is solved. Now I have 2 idiots deminishing my land values.

The mentality here is to blame Robo for your ignorance. For the most part most of the roadside cut outs stay empty so the view is not that bad, and if you decide to buy roadside NOW, check your property lines. With the new rules, there is nothing to worry about.

On the mainland a great deal of these issues started with new regions and people quick to "flip" a region by cutting lots up, selling them for ONE linden per meter above costs. They sold something really cheap and along came someone and made a 16m2 micro parcel grid out of one lot. The quick sale basically halted further sales... thus people became reluctant to buy sims. Personally fine with me. Maybe you should buy a sim to use it whole rather then cut it up for a quick buck. A great deal of money was made by people buying sims at auction and cutting them up. Personally most got ruined because they were cut up wrong from the get go.

That's a risk they took, selling it cheap rather than wait for a higher priced sale or keep the sim whole. Buying a water front sim and dicing it up to 512 lots isn't pretty looking.

The Bay City? Stay away from auctions that are jacked up to a point that makes no sense. To bid on auctions where you have no list after the sale as to who the bidders are spells shilling to me.

Oh, okay, if that's the extent of the metaphor, sure: it's hardly necessary to reclaim those microparcels to keep land prices low. It's the opposite effect that concerns me, and not for the individual landowner. My concern is that LL's ability to generate tier revenue from old Mainland will not recover enough (or for any noticeable duration) from the current, limited policy.I've purchased a few, too, but for a different reason: self defense. I'm thoroughly convinced that we're at most a couple weeks away from seeing the same old players pulling the same old scams, with only the minimal tweaks necessary to get a nod from the same old pro-adfarmer G-Team.

Some of the old school adfarmers may have found other interests (judging by Jack's office hour yesterday, a bunch seem pretty distracted by the prospect of swindling each other in a fantasy stock exchange), but check out which parcels are *not* for sale, and which ones have gone *up* in price. Unless those guys are just clueless, it ain't over yet. And if I'm correct about what little it takes for a microparcel to grief its neighbors, there's just nothing in the current enforcement regimen to make any lasting difference at all in their detrimental effects to the Mainland.

I'm sure people in RL would be wrapped too if they found a 1m strip of footpath along their fenceline was owned by a billboard company who waited till you purchased before erecting s sign...........................

Well that's why I said look at your property lines.... If you want to use RL for an example then you should make sure what people can and cannot do on the empty parcels of land that surround your property. Are they buildable? Can someone rent that space for a cell phone tower? Do your due diligence...

It's good to see that the new rules are working for some people, but sadly not for me. It's 48 hours since I ARed a 32 x 32 x 70 ad in the sim (that's 70m high), with the ad all the way up all 4 sides, and it's still there. At the same time I ARed two ban-lined 256m plots that used to be used for ad towers, but are now for sale at well over L$15k each, and the ban lines are still there too.

Judging by people here saying how quickly things happened, I'm thinking that they have been looked at and nothing done. I'm rapidly losing faith in the new initiative.

On the other hand, in another sim, a 32m ad plot that I surround on all 4 sides used to have a stack of 3 ads in the air, and I've had a tower covering them up for ages. I recently saw that the 3 ads had been made transparent except for the ends which weren't unsightly, so I removed the tower. Today I see that the ads have gone completely. I didn't AR them, but someone might have done.

I just hope that my AR about the 70m high ad hasn't been dealt with yet because if it has, and the decision was to leave it there, then imo, the initiative is f***ing useless.

"I work with people who own larger lots adjacent to any of my plots"

Roadside ad plots. I know what you mean. It took me 4 days to find a roadside plot that didn't have a moat of microparcels next to said roadway. Yeah now I'm happy having found one with direct access along it's full roadside length. Now I just have to get rid of the other microparcels on the sim

Recent Abuse Reports against Name removed for forum

[rt.lindenlab.com #1306711] Abuse Report Received Abuse: E:1 P:1 |Sim| (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sim/106/37/61) [Harassment] {Name removed} "Adfarming Harassment"‏ From: Abuse Reports via RT (indra-abuse@secondlife.com)
Sent: 03 October 2008 19:10:35

[rt.lindenlab.com #1306708] Abuse Report Received Abuse: E:1 P:1 |Sim| (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sim/78/129/6) [Harassment] {Name removed} "Empty Adplot set at 9999L"‏ From: Abuse Reports via RT (indra-abuse@secondlife.com)
Sent: 03 October 2008 19:01:26

[rt.lindenlab.com #1304865] Abuse Report Received Abuse: E:1 P:1 |Sim| (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sim/218/27/116) [Harassment] {Name Removed} "Adfarming Harassment"‏ From: Abuse Reports via RT (indra-abuse@secondlife.com) Sent: 01 October 2008 22:15:24

[rt.lindenlab.com #1273597] Abuse Report Received Abuse: E:1 P:1 |Sim| (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Sim/75/130/6) [Harassment] {Name removed} "Adfarming and Ban Line Harassment"‏ From: Abuse Reports via RT (indra-abuse@secondlife.com) Sent: 26 August 2008 02:32:55


As requested here are the Abuse report numbers I have filed recently against Name Removed and group ***** no doubt many other abuse reports by many different users are already on record against this group.

Please think why prices of 9999L upto 19999L have been applied to the plots held by this avatar,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owner: 692934ab-78d6-f481-23f3-c1ff38828126

Total Parcels: 1367 Total Area: 42736m2

Total area for sale: 42464
Total sale price: L$16615644
Average sale price: L$391.29/m2


Taken from http://landtracker.co.cc/mainlandsims/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It has nothing to do with advertising and will not be solved by market forces, the plot he has in Sim is not even counted on this list.
He has been prevented from using banlines in an attempt to force his plot sales but any number of things can be done within TOS to still apply pressure, yes after an abuse report is filed he will stop for a week or so in that area till another idea hits him, but nothing has changed this is still Adfarming but without adverts, the term adfarming should never have been used for what these avatars do it is extortion and harassment, and has not been solved.

Here is further proof


Last night I sold a few 16sqm parcels below is a copy of some of my transaction history.
I was able to hold a bit back to put a silly price on for myself if I wanted to and named the plots as good to make money by extortion.
This should not be possible if you are serious about repairing the mainland.

1143370948 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-03 02:45:17 Name Removed
1143368719 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-03 02:42:53 Name Removed
1143367068 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-03 02:41:01 Name Removed
1143313229 Land Sale 16 79 2008-10-03 01:37:36 Name Removed
1143308825 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-03 01:32:17 Name Removed
1143307331 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-03 01:30:30 Name Removed
1143149866 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-02 22:36:51 Name Removed
1142840572 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-02 18:21:59 Name Removed
1142761212 Land Sale 16 50 2008-10-02 17:21:45 Name Removed

Notice any of the names in this list?
There are two well known experts in harassment and extortion below is a landmark to one of their plots already on sale at 1495L, yes true it has nothing on it yet, but next week or next month things will be different.

Landmark removed for forum

These parcels destroy SL whether they have prims sat on them or not for land owners like myself which surround them, we have the constant threat of logging in to see what devious plan they thought of to harass us.

To my knowledge name removed is the worst of the offenders ,from the price perspective, but all of the people who practice this so called form of business, are just leeching off other users.
The users fear of what will appear next and the users need to not have a hole in the middle of their plot, will ensure that without action that this problem does not go away.

I have suggested limiting the number of small plots allowed by a user to 50 so people who wanted could still advertise in line with TOS if required, people could still make cuts but the market for them would be limited and users with over a thousand of these plots would have to join them or loose them.

Any users with legitimate need for more plots could contact Linden Labs for permission stating clearly the purpose for them.

Other ideas could be to make all sales auction based like ebay so people only pay the lands actual value.

It really doesn't matter how the problem is solved as long as it is solved.

As things are right now I could close the Sandbox which is provided free at no cost and start cutting my way through 1300 plots to start bleeding people dry, I won't though as it is unreasonable and criminal to do so, even if you and Linden Labs give everyone your blessing to carry on, by ignoring the problem.




____________________________________________________________________

I just sent this note to Jack Linden, it occured to me that other users may have evidence, to further prove Extortion and Harassment is not solved, by this proposal as it stands now.
Maybe as Jack doesn't seem interested in reading what we write here similar notes with evidence could be use full, to show him nothing has really changed.

Also most RL councils don't allow you to buy a block of residential land, carve it into 16m greifing chunks then put gawdy mobile phone towers or fake billboards on them with extortive pricing on the land for you to buy your view back.

Out of idle curiousity, I closed the resolved support ticket I mentioned in a previous post with the following comment:I was a little surprised anybody actually reads those comments, but the Support team quite helpfully provided the following response:So that answers that. I can only hope somebody is really watching G-Team this time, inasmuch as it's Concierge's business metrics they'll be moving--or not.

Before:



After:


THANK YOU!!!