Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

I dont blieve that the problem is advertising.
It is a part of the problem.

At first i minded to create a chain of adservers for social advertising, like Tibet, hunger, wars, climate and similars.
I think that this could be a good thing in SL, that sounds too much as "heaven".
There is a lot of people in the world that need help and i had this idea.

Now i dont know if i ll do this.
I want advertise opinions and not products.
And i wish to do this in freedom, no under rules by Linden or by anyone.
If i have to ask a permit i prefer to stay in silence.

So, i believe that is more correct say that people hates adservers if commercial and if excessive.
Like overlagged discos, like maze malls, like tamagouchi island "with marine view".
I propose to ban all this activities and i know a lot of people that will not cry if this ll happen.

This is not all.

The cause of "crazy landcutting" does not come by "professional" land sellers.
Roads make value and pavement are important not for advertising only.
Passages, shops, offices, crossroads, walls.
The conseguence will be that the value of the "first line" lots will be allways higher than others.

I want be clear.
I sell and buy land: I am the owner of "Land for People", a little group.
My motto is Honest Prices and i practise a policy of pricing where the value is fixed or i ask a % on land catching (as Puritans and first American Pioneers).
I mean that a correct price cannot go over 5-10 times the "ordinary" land (example: 16mq =< 200 L$).
I mean that a 16mq at 1000 L$ is seriously overpriced.


I know that the quality of nearby land gives value to our roadside lots.
I, like any business man, am interessed to a stable growing market. If it is adsland or marine view is the same.
As any business, problems come from tiers and VATs, as usual.
When we need to buy other land while we are full or when we need to make cash, "cut are bad": WE NEED TO SELL.
A solution, verified in RL, is to low the tiers in relation with the mass of land sales.
Another solution could be enlarge the basis of free ownership to 768, to give energy to the land market for some mounthes and reduce the land fragmentation.

I hope that this explanation could help anyone to understand how landsales world works.

Of course, but your shop can be covered by trees, walls, minishops.

And roadside lots can be a facility as pavements ...

The roads give a different value to these lots.

On the other side people needs advertising to find shops and places.
I believe that is correct place limits to commercial advertising and not correct if advertising is social.

But i believe too that this ll not solve our problem (i have 4 shops too).

It seems Jack's office hours for today have changed...




Wednesdays @ 3pm SL Time (this has changed from 1pm for 24th Sept only)

I certainly dont use ad's I see for finding places to shop, isnt that what search is for?

Yet another person with no actual experience of the method telling us how it doesn't work... like all the people in this forum who have said "all ad-farmers are extortionists"

The Lindens call it ad farming - placing networks of ads over multiple sims - they defined it.

response to 1/
Who says only "legitimate agencies" do ad farming? Who would push for regulation on unregulated mainland?
"People hate adfarms" Yes i admit 85% of the people who write in this forum seem to...but have ya surveyed the rest? Blanket sweeping exaggerations do not help your argument.

response to 2/
Using a web model??? ...sheesh have ya heard of "brand re-inforcement" or "impulse buying"?... both are common marketing terms that work equally well in SL when applied to ad networks. What about the person who is just bored and clicks something interesting.
Ad networks aren't a web model.. they are based on a real world model.

response to 3/
Are you really advocating scamming the search system via "pay for Picks systems"? Why not advocate campers as well? And from someone who uses Freebies and tracks purchases closely - they seldom work, i know 95% of people who pick up a freebie do not purchase.
Ad networks work... and are in fact cheaper than most of the 'official' ways.

For Your Information... RL systems work well in SL cause SL is a basic representation of RL... and we are all human and therefore respond to the same advertising 'baits'.
Roadside ads do work, middle of sim ads do work.

To all those who say "Ad networks are all extortionists"... you are mindlessly repeating a FALSE STATEMENT
To all those who say "Ad networks don't work"... you are mindlessly repeating a FALSE STATEMENT

Trees and walls aren't spam, and minishops are too expensive for the spammers to put everywhere.

Click on the "search" button at the bottom of your screen. That works to "find shops and places".

No offense Argent, but what gives you the right to dictate how people should advertise?

Nothing on the blaugh since sept 18th. nothing new? nothing exciting? too busy filling all those false promises of a better world?

Like I said they don't have the manpower/womanpower to enforce all the new rules and regulations.



by the by AOL sucks.

Don't be silly, I wasn't dictating how people should advertise. No, I was questioning whether people needed to be advertised to at all.

To be precise: I was responding to the statement "On the other side people needs advertising to find shops and places." When I go to "find shops and places" I don't "need advertising" to do it. Do you?

That doesn't say anything about whether you need to advertise, or how you should advertise. It merely asserts that the assumption, that people need advertising, is false, and provides supporting evidence for this assertion by showing another way, other than advertising, that people can "find shops and places".

But, what right do I have to say things like that? The same right you have to think that "no offense" followed by an statement starting with "what gives you the right to..." somehow means that you're not actually being offensive. Because, of course, everyone knows what "no offense" means. It's like "friend" in the mouth of a con artist, or "pal" in the mouth of a mugger.

Of course we're all supposed to believe that you really didn't mean anything by demanding to know what right I have to dare to express my opinions. These kinds of code words are just supposed to be accepted, and we're all supposed to pretend that you're really just asking an honest question instead of trying to turn the discussion into a debate about "rights". Well, I'm not.

And, no, I'm not "dictating how you can advertise", I'm questioning the value, to the community as a whole, of the fact that you can advertise at all. I'm being MUCH more radical and objectionable, and, you know, I've got every right to be radical and objectionable.

No offense.

Yes they do. There are plenty of things here that are found via adverts rather than search.

No we don't.

It's not panto season for a few weeks yet. There are plenty of things people find inworld that they wouldn't have searched for.

I would argue that the vast majority find them from things other than a handful of ad terminals sprinkled around the grid. Most likely via word of mouth, search, classifieds, wandering around to the stores directly, or find them via SLX or onrez. Unless you have independently verified statistics on how your customers found out about your store/products, I see no real evidence to the contrary. The Isle of Wyrms does no advertisement of this kind, and we have NO problems with people finding the Isle or Daryth's products.

I take issue with the notion that I *NEED* to be advertised to. No, the hell I don't, either. I have the need to NOT be advertised to, if you have any hope of selling ANYthing to me. I am not alone in that mindset, either.

I use adblocking software, I mute/skip commercials on TV, I arrive late to a movie so I don't have to sit through the initial advertising BS, I send 99.99% of all my email inbox contents to the trash, and I fill my wastebin weekly with POUNDS of paper and plastic crap, UNopened. I CERTAINLY don't *NEED* advertisements blaring in my face when I log into a virtual world. If you think people can't find your products or store any other way, then I would argue that you shouldn't bother having any.

As usual your obsession of this issue is blinding you from the obvious. The point was that people should only need to use search, you've highlighted a whole lot of other ways of finding things right there in your post but don't let the truth get in the way of a good argument hey.



Of course you need to be advertised to, how the bloody hell do you find anything at all ever? Products advertise their prices for a start, they also advertise what they are and what the contents are.



And you still buy products that advertise to you, everyone does.

The only thing it is blinding me from is the things I WANT it to blind me from... more SPAM.



I don't know about you, but when I need a hammer, I go to a hardware store. I know where it is, because I have been there before, or have seen it driving by, or have been told by a friend about this great hardware store down on the highway.

If I have need of something that I don't know where to get, I *SEARCH* for it, most of the time, on the Internet. I don't get it from banner ads, spam email, spam snail mail, telemarketing calls, TV commercials, et cetera ad nauseum. In simpler terms, *I* go looking for *IT*, I don't NEED *IT* to come looking for *ME*. That's the difference that you and everyone else who thinks they have a right to spam everyone because we somehow "need" it doesn't seem to get. I want to have to look for something, because when I am NOT looking for something, I don't want it occupying my consciousness with more noise.



You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Go ahead, tell me what products I have bought recently that I bought because they were advertised to me. Beyond knowing SMFA about me, that's a gross generalization that doesn't remotely apply to MANY people, let alone me.

I joined SL, not because I saw an ad for it (not really possible, since I ignore/block almost all advertising anyway), but because a roommate played it and he introduced me to it. That's about 99% of the way I find out about things if I don't go looking for them myself.

Come on now TL, thats the whole trick in advertising, getting those to see that arent looking!!!

Glad to see you acknowledge the fact that it's a trick. You are right. It is an attempt maipulate the observer, to create demand where there is no need. Advertisers should not be surprised that there is a substantial number of those they target who object to being manipulated, nor that the strength of the objection increases with the obtrusiveness of the advertising.

The late George Carlin said it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNv-oDbBZQU

No, the real trick in advertising is getting to those who ARE looking, because they are the ones who are about to become your customers, or someone else's if you fail to present yourself to them before they make their purchase.

If I'm not looking to buy a hammer, advertising a hammer to me isn't going to make me want to go out and buy it any more than if I didn't see your ad. In fact, it is likely to make me NOT want to buy it, depending on how much your ad intrudes into my stream of consciousness. If you're gambling on me remembering your intrusive ad when I need to go buy a hammer, you can bet I will, and will go down the street to your competition instead.

I mean, you may be conditioned to be an advertising junkie from being exposed to it all your life or whatever, but I assure you, I am not; in fact, I daresay I am conditioned just the opposite. Intrusive, excessive, even abusive advertising makes me NOT want to buy ANYthing from you.

Amen, George... Amen.

Carving donuts, price gouging and checkerboarding multiple roadside plots with ban lines is not advertising......... it's extortion.

Oh.... did I forget to mention spewing particles, multiple temp-on-rez objects and harassment with bad sensor scripts spamming targets with IMs and crippling dialog boxes?

My bad.

Only things that fits that description would be stuff people give me or random things in sandboxes. Anything else I've spent money on was searched or occasionally by word of mouth.

But the result is the same: nobody sees yr shop.

"Search", without advanced options (as Google or Yahoo) is not a big advantage and gives few infos on the place where you go.
On the other side, "search" works just on traffic, has separate database for english / apanese and expecialized shops are cutted off at the bottom of the list, .

To give an example, "search" can be a pretty touristic guide but not an useful navigator.

Weedy, just curious... with all those Blue Button Micro parcels smack in the middle of peoples parcels.... what is that all about? I'm perplexed since I IM you guys many times in an attempt to relocate your parcels only to have them fall on deaf ears in SAMOA. I ended dumping the sim and I owned 90 percent of it. But because of 6 micro parcel guys that would not budge, it just became pure hell. I'm sure your little data collection devices do something?