Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

That is because adparcels are not the issue for many.

Are you opposed to them?

I really don't care I am opposed to small parcels in general, whether they have anything on them or not they are a nuisance and most people dislike them being there.

I can see some good reasons for them as people have pointed out, so I accept them.
Advertising I have no problem with, even using small parcels to advertise.
Not on a completely surrounded parcel though, as this always dictates usage of the larger parcel and at best the small parcel becomes obstuctive.

When a small parcel is used to harass in any way, there is a clear problem, it would be nice if people could come to reasonable arrangements, but evidence clearly shows they can or will not, that is why LL needs to step in.

]
Would that more people would do so. While I suspect that Jack, Katt & Co. have al but left us, I would still recommend we all not give into, shall we say, certain temptations? I think one person in particular has made their point and does not intend to change. I think a number of others, myself included, have made our counter points and are equally unlikely to sway. Given that, all we're doing is wasting perfectly good bytes.

Mari

This is some amazing stuff here. I was half expecting the new rules to be too weak to really make any difference. However like with all new rules that sweep Second Life, it's not like these ads will automatically clean by them selves. Though the casinos sure cleared out quickly when they were banned. I'm sure most of these ad farmers don't even read forums, blog, or bother to read TOS anyway. Heck what they do is so remote it's not like they have to login every day to see what's been going on. They just set it and forget it.

And it's not like the Lindens can just flip a switch and all the ad farms vanish. And they can't actually see everything going on in world. Other users will have to report these violations to the Lindens, and they have to investigate on an individual basis. So you can probably imagine, given how huge SL mainland is now, this will take a lot of time.

/lurk off



The Oct 1 date was set in the Sept 4 blog post stating that LL will remove adfarms. This Thread is about the Sept 12 blog entry, which mentions no date, revokes the Sept 4 promise, & provides nothing more than assurances that LL will ASK offenders to stop.
Nice backdown Jack.
WTG LL another victory for the landsharks & extortionists!



Im not premium now (i cancelled both my prem accounts after LL declined to either help or to consider any compensation when a land sales system glitch cost me 18k sqm of mainland) but im posting, ergo i guess the only req is to be logged in here.

/lurk on

Does your comment mean that if i buy larger land i can put ads on it and you will accept them? ... If so what size of land please?

And if i buy a larger plot in your 'victorian era London' setting and build something non-victorian? Do you also claim the right to hide it from everyone?

And if others believe the ad is not an eyesore? Do you still claim the right to hide it from everyone else?

It may surprise you - but the reason why my ads existed - people clicked on em because they were interested..as evidenced by corresponding increases in sales directly attributable to them. If they did not... i would not have had ads out.

Perhaps if you read my earlier posts you would find i have no issue with a single person blocking on a side to stop "their" view (not that they own a view in any direction)... my issue is with people who deliberately block most of the sides, and often in sims where they have no interest, "on behalf of everyone" when actually they have no research to back up their view of what "everyone" thinks.

My issue with YOU however, is blanket labelling of a group of people with names like evil and a**hat - perhaps if you restrained your abusive terminology people would think better of your input?

But what's good for the goose, etc. You're proposing that the adfarmer owns the view of the adjacent parcels--that the ad is something like "protected speech" and needs special treatment that the adrunner is not willing to grant the neighbor. You are, in fact, claiming extra rights and privileges apply to smaller parcels.

Your question about "what size of land" drifts into the embarrassing asymmetry that no adfarmer ever wants the argument to touch: If we can't "block" the ad--build right up to it on all sides--how much setback do we have to allow?

Oh. Oops! If parcels should always provide a 2m setback, 16 and 32 sq.m. parcels can no longer rez visible prims because they simply have nowhere to put them. So you'll never hear an adfarmer use that "setback" term, when that's exactly what they want: they want neighbors to grant them an unspecified but presumably huge setback so their ads can be seen, but they're unwilling to--indeed cannot--grant even the slightest setback themselves.

And it doesn't work to swap terms, saying it's about "blocking," not setbacks. A distinction with no difference. If I have to grant "visual access" to two sides of an ad, how much visual access do I have to grant? That question is exactly equivalent to "how much setback do I have to provide?"

Jubby

I don't think anyone is calling you an a**hat nor other people who wish to advertise.

Trouble is there are a few dicks out there that would love to find a loophole allowing them to carry on p**sing off the rest of us, so they can carry on robbing.
Disallowing blocking on large parcels is providing that loophole.

If want to I would block a large parcel just the same as a small its not about size its about what you choose to look at from your own plot of land.
I don't see the point in having land if you don't enjoy spending time on it plain and simple.

Using other small parcels to block an advert vendor, by people not involved directly within a sim is another form of harassment, however good the intention seems to be.
If I want to block my view of something I will and I don't need anyones misguided help to do so, it just adds to the efing mess.

Another possible solution.....

LL owns the servers that all of SL (including the mainland) runs on. Therefore why not systematically close down the existing mainland and offer the existing residents equivalent amount of land on new continents which have zoned districts such as residential, commercial, mixed-use and with a no-advertisement / no-land extortion / no-land griefing clause as part of the covenant? Think of it as 'defragmenting' the land

If such a move was implemented as a phased program LL would not need to invest in any new hardware. In the short run such a move might be more labour-intensive but in the long run it *should* require less intervention as the land use would be determined by the covenant(s). Sure such a grand exodus might cause a bit of pain initially but there's nothing that couldn't be solved with a few copied RAW terrain maps and a rez-foo / rez-faux / builder-buddy box.

After that, any remaining land owners who do not move to the new covenanted mainland sims would be forcibly consolidated onto an Adopolis continent with a similar one-for-one equivalency deal where they could carry on with their microparcel wars to their hearts' content.

I suppose it's really a question of what gets us to the desired goal with the least amount of pain / expense / work.

Yes and the answer should be zero to each question.

Did he statement say anything about polling neighbors or so on? The only question is if you create a negative experience (be that another resident or LL) rather than an exhaustive list of 'do this' 'do not do this' statements. For example, these forums would indicate that most see a problem with some of the more egregious efforts by land extortionists. You do not need a 'poll' ... just would a reasonable human being have am issue with whatever you want to do.

You know, engage your own conscience for once and let it guide you. If you get it wrong, LL spank. Don't expect a list of hard and fast dos and do nots because someone will always find an unintended loophole that way.

Why does one side need to be visible? Say you sell me a donut hole plot. Yes, I am annoyed, but I still want to build a house on my property. I design it in such a way that I incorporate the hole .... I do not build on it, but around it. Do I need to redesign the house on my land so you can get to your land? Do TPs and flying not work for you all of a sudden?

What if 2 independent people have plots around the microplot. Without prior communication, both of them happen to wall off the microplot with their builds. Ok, so which of the two has to tear down their build so you can get access?

Remember, a lot of SL does not have roads (unlike the real world). A plot being between two bigger plots with no public access happens all the time. Not just with microplots either.

Yes, it would have been nice if LL could have given more details (like at the OH Jack missed yesterday). Like did Oct 1 still apply, what sort of a compliance time will farmers have (and hopefully average expected turnaround time for the ARs) and what is the next step if the ad farmer says 'no'.

Any Lindens that can answer these questions? Any at all?

Nice idea ...... one interesting development (and a modification of your plan). If you go over to estate services there is a sign about a new continent coming ...

This post is not about the extortionists - it's about valid advertising.

There's a lot of people claiming the right to block sight of another's build. Completely ignoring the fact that they block it from all other people - as if they have a 'right' to determine who sees what.
Also ignoring the fact that not one of them would like the same done to them. If you built a house and someone came along and unilaterally decided your build was an eyesore and erected mega prims to huge heights to block it? If they bought the land surrounding your plot expressly to do that? If their only interest in blocking it was they thought "everyone" hated it (without any research or asking of other neighbors or passersby)? What would you say then?
If someone surrounded your land AFTER you had purchased it, then blocked it in allowing a tiny entry point to get around TOS...what would you do?
If someone decided you had to build back a certain distance from your land's borders if you wanted your house seen (as has been suggested in this forum) - what would you say?

People are claiming the 'right' to censor another's build based on it's "eyesore" value. Thats just wrong.

People are claiming the 'right' to decide what all others see. Wrong - just plain wrong.

People are completely ignoring all the advertising that surrounds them in RL and online games - in favor of abusing advertisers in SL. And claiming ads harass their eyes, or claiming they "hate" ads? Better go live in the desert and hope a car doesn't drive past lest it's badge burn your sight. Or try a phone call to Coca Cola Industries complaining how ya already bought the can so would like them to remove the ad on it - and add "ya evil b**tards" at the end - that might help adjust their attitude!
You chose to play this game with its ads inside... Remember choosing?
You chose to purchase mainland - with ads visible all over it. Remember when you did that?

I salute all those who have made suggestions that actually might work, or can be applied fairly to everyone. The people who thought long and logically before posting.

And FYI, I don't take the abuse personally - i used to work as a bouncer - it flows right over my head... i just dislike people who throw terms like "evil" around as if they knew what it really meant.

Why today the AD Farm group owned by ROBO Marx Raise Land 16sqm Parcel to the max of the sim ?

I see this as a huge and pointless task.

The shop owner in my sim would want commercial, I want residential so we would cease to be neighbors, however the land is a protected waterfront sim, we would both expect like for like land, sure we could be united with other like minded neighbors from another Sim with similar characteristics, but the work involved in this would be astronimical.

All the Lindens need to do is become effective estate managers, and stomp on the very small number of scumbags, they are allowing to spoil SL now.

Possibly this proposal will meet that goal.

It works both ways Jubby. My examples just used a microplot in the middle but it scales well. The only real recourse if surrounded is to talk to the resident(s) who have prims surrounding you. It is not LL's concern nor is it my right to say the owners of the lots around me can not block me in.

It seems to me the people who love microplots want it both ways ..... dictating what others should have on their plots but also wanting to be allowed to do whatever they want on theirs.

Sorry. No sympathy for your side.

To prove to everyone that their whole interest in SL is to annoy people, and that they think they can continue to annoy people?

Did it ever occur to you to try talking out of your mouth instead of your proverbial? You should try it sometime.

You're down? You sold the thing for over a million l$ and you're down?

Sorry but thats buls**t Jubby. I have blocked myself in so I don't have to look outside my land using megaprims before as I didn't like the builds around me.
Many people do this as quite often anothers build is not to their taste, view, line of sight rights simply do not exist.
You want a clear line of sight to your advert buy roadside or you can expect people to block you in.




The do gooders that do that use small plots also and they are practising a form of harassment, their blocks make as much of an eysore as a bad advertisement.
The choice of blocking a parcel should be left down to the land owners in the surrounding area.
Builds of greater than 8m height should not be allowed on any small parcels.



It is a parcel owners right and should always be a parcel owners right to build as they see fit on their land. (Unless that build can be seen as deliberate harassment or)
Sorry Jubby but i see anything on a small parcel higher than 8m off the ground as deliberate harassment whether it is intended or not.
I wouldnt leave an entry point either as the top is an entry point in my view.



Why do I want you to see my house? I couldn't give a s**t if you can see it or not and i will use the resources I am paying for right up to the edge if nessecary.



Its right we don't pay for a view we pay for server space plain and simple, so do you.
Ibought protected oceanfront for a overly inflated price compared to other land because it came with a view.
Want a view pay for it like everone else has to.



I don't give a s**t about adverts I might even put some out myself, I am only responding to your questions about the view, I may even be wrong LL might tell me I have to look at everyone elses crap in which case I will stick two fingers up and leave.
But till they do then walls are fine.
Yes I chose mainland with ads all over it thought what a pile of crap and boxed myself in because I could.



No offence taken Jubby and none intended here either, I thought you said you were going to stick with the roadside anyway mate.
Preventing people from building walls allows certain money grabbing bas**rds the option to apply real pressure to larger land owners though.
Unfortunately it has the side affect that adspace will only be effective on roadsides and other places where neighbors agree to not block line of sight.


Thing is while LL allow a few tw*ts to carry on extorting everyone suffers.

Hi All
How are you
i hope you all fine
can any one help me
i would use sloodle in moodle is this possible and if yes how
thank you for all

Who loves microplots?

LOL

Jubby don't love micro plots he like to put adverts on them thats not love!

LOL

Even the extortionsists don't love 'em they just like using them to meet their goal.

I'll grant it's possible that some advertisers are just unwitting patsies to the extortionists--much like the people who buy the parcels. But whether aware of it or not, they've helped fuel the extortion by being an implied threat behind the overpriced microparcel. It's not the whole extortion problem--tragically, the model will still work without any advertising allowed on the Mainland at all--but really: most advertisers have a special business relationship ( ) with one or more of the extortionists--and the advertising is really not the high-margin side of that relationship, even if it's nominally profitable.
And the alternative is that the advertiser claims a right to determine--what?--that their build be seen from somebody else's land. That is to say, "a 'right' to determine who sees what."
I'd say it sure would be nice if they provided a setback. So, how much setback do you want, bearing in mind the ad would have to comply, too?I'd say fine, as long as it applied uniformly.

It's totally ambiguous what 'right' is even being claimed here. What's the operational definition of "blocking"? If I even wanted to comply and leave two sides "unblocked"--what the hell does that even *mean*? To what depth from those borders should I forswear rezzing prims?
But you're claiming the exact same thing, and more: not only do you want to determine what people see, you want to determine what people see FROM SOMEBODY ELSE'S LAND. It's absurd.