Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

Elex, in the past I have often agreed with you but this time you are so off base that I cant even fathom where your thoughts are coming from. You can not have it both ways.... if you insist that you own all you buy then perhaps getting a open sim on your own system is the answer. We all live together here and MUST get along. Throwing ill-reasoned thoughts out are helping no one, yourself included.

I'm not having it both ways.

If I pay to be a Premium Member (and also pay the associated tier fees) then it's my land.

If the Lindens are the Estate Managers and can also interfere with how I run my parcels, even if I've violated no rules, then it's their land and they can pay for it.

If it's society's land and I'm expected to manage my parcels the way society (meaning everyone but me) sees fit, even though I've violated no rules, then there's no reason for me to own land.

The attempt at joint ownership never reached the trigger amount. The amount in which it would all convert over to the consortium. They never managed to /own/ the bar (and thus had no say). Membership in the consortium cost far less than US$100.

Wrong you have only bought the right to have the land LL still owns it.

Err... the fact is that someone else owns that parcel and they don't want you on it.

Please explain why, you, the person that does not own the parcel, has a right to enter it even though it's not your property and you don't pay the fees associated with it.

That was a year ago. It never reached the required amount for joint ownership and you still haven't returned their money - afte a year and even after selling the land for a million L$ ??? Wow! It does seem to speak volumes.

Elex Dusk Says:


Banlines are simply anti-social.

It would be impossible for me to explain the socio-economic benifits of removing banlines to any narcissistic Rand follower such as yourself. Your doctrine tells you to forgo altruism in favour of personal capital gain.

Unfortunatly, Rand doesn't explain that a laissez-faire attitude towards your community is a detriment to the community and as a member of that community, this detriment is extended not only to those around you, but to yourself as well.

Example: A sim without banlines allows visitors to move about more freely. Maybe these people wish to spend money at my store that you have blocked in. Maybe with my profits, I could have bought that nice roadside land you own. But since you are blocking my customers from spending money at my store, both of our properties will simply rot there and no one profits.

Thats about all I'm going to say to you as I feel any further chit-chat is simply a waste of bytes on LL's hard drives.

zg

It's been more than a year.

Phil, I was let off the hook for this at Post #768
/346/9a/281807/32.html#post2151703/346/9a/281807/32.html#post2151703

Apparently, according to "society," the Lindens are the Mainland Estate Managers and are ultimately responsible for what happens on their land. Consortium members can direct their claims to "society."

You can't have it both ways.

However, if I do "own" my land (which I pay a Premium Membership and tier fees for) and I'm allowed to cultivate it as I wish, as long as I don't violate the Terms of Service or the Community Standards, and I'm not subject to the inteference of the Mainland Estate Managers or "society"...

*sighs and rolls his eyes for the umpteenth time*

Toy... I'm well-versed in the Terms of Service and the Community Standards... I quote them incessantly and other residents hate me for it. For example, Section 1.6 makes it clear that it can all be eliminated with no prior notice.

I'm also well aware that Linden Lab is located in California, that California is on Earth, which revolves around the Sun, and we're all located in the Western Spiral Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy... which is located in this thing called the Universe.

Getting down to brass tacks:

My Premium Membership entitles me (my "right" to the purchase (and make sales) of Mainland parcels. If I go beyond my 512-sq.m covered by my Premium Membership I'm required to pay tier fees (which have a discount as I acquire larger and larger parcels). If I fail to pay my membership fees and tier fees my land will be considered abandoned and will revert to Governor Linden and be placed for auction.

I'm allowed to do whatever I wish with my land as long as I don't violate the Terms of Service or the Community Standards. If I'm a naughty naughty boy then my land can be revoked.

Note that I have to be a naughty naughty boy. I have to violate the rules. This is far different from Estate Land (also known as Covenant Land) in which the landlord, the actual private island owner, can evict anyone at anytime for any reason and revoke their land.

If a parcel owner violates the Terms of Service or Community Standards then it's up to another resident to file an Abuse Report. For example, encroachment, which means an object on one person's parcel overhangs the boundaries of a neighbor. Another example is spam, in which an object disperses notecards, landmarks, etc., to residents not within the parcel boundaries where the object is located. Shouting objects are another example. These are all things covered by the Terms of Service of the Community Standards and are clear violations.

And then it's up to a Linden to /investigate/ the Abuse Report. If a Linden has ever told you in response to your Abuse Report: "Just mute that shouting object" then they are a lazy bogan who has failed to do their job [Please don't get me started on the topic of why Lindens seems to think that handing a support ticket to another Linden is the same as providing a resolution and they may now close the ticket. They all appear to suffer from pass-the-buck-itis.]

What I have a problem with is: There's no reason to create a new set of rules governing ad parcels WHEN THE LINDENS HAVE FAILED TO ENFORCE THE RULES IN THE PAST.

If someone has ban lines up: THEY DON'T WANT YOU ON THEIR PROPERTY.
(It's very easy to check this. Right-click the property and look at the About Land window. If your name's not on it then you don't own it.)

If someone has priced their parcel for a billion kajillion mazillion googillion dollars: DON'T BUY IT.

If someone has objects within their parcel, which one finds distasteful ("I sure hate pictures of cute purple kittens", but do not violate the ToS of the CS: DON'T LOOK AT THEM

Now, that's not meant to be harsh, you were my building teacher (and I failed twice) but if we were to use the "society" or common good argument then I'm positive that we can both rest assured that after "society" bans ad parcels then "society" will have nothing more to be upset over. Society is good like that.

Yes I know you were let off the hook for it. I let you off the hook even earlier by saying that you owned the land technically and legally, but not morally. I'm not trying to have it both ways. Many wrongs, including theft, can be done to people without any of them being illegal. Get it now?

Ownership is the greatest form of morality.

Again: "Society" has let me off the hook. If you have any complaints about the outcome please take them up with "society."

Note that the Terms of Service, Section 5.1 clearly state: You release Linden Lab from your claims relating to other users of Second Life. Linden Lab has the right but not the obligation to resolve disputes between users of Second Life.

I agreed to that. You agreed to that. The consortium members agreed to that. I was certainly willing to pay everyone back but even you, yourself, said that wasn't enough.

"Society" will be happy to provide the pound of flesh you require. Please fill out the appropriate forms.

question 1.. who granted you the so called rights?
question 2.. who can remove those rights for any or no reason?
The TOS and CS are ever changing, they can be changed at any time.
If LL sets guidelines for what is considered extortion on a plots price they can limit the price.

Your problem seems to be your rights, they only extend to what LL wishes them to be. If the TOS or CS changes to uphold the rights of the majority that will be the rules you must live under. You have VERY limited 'rights' and they can change at anytime.

Elex, I have taught in SL many years, your credentials mean nothing to me. Get over yourself, you have no more rights than LL grants you and they can change at anytime.

Your dealings with the consortium are none of my concern.

Then why even bring it up, princess?

As for me, I've taken 10s of thousands of US$ out of SL and into my bank, and I continue to do it. You're just an amateur by comparison.

To show people the nature of the person who writes the things that you do, duckie.

Then shouldn't you reduce your prices and give something back to "society." Maybe even start giving your products away for free? Based on your own logic it sounds like you've earned enough.

You wouldn't want to come off as a greedhead would you?

Err... but it's none of your concern... you stated that yourself. You're rather contradictory.

You mean like you give back to those you took real money from?

Noooo. I'm happy taking the money out. It's a hell of a lot better than running a bar that gets packed when 8 people are in it. You see, I won't need to persuade people to pay me significant money for joint ownership of something they never get joint ownership of. I think that my end of things are just fine, thank you.

You don't read? I thought you said you did. My mistake. Have someone read this next bit to you...

I said that the consortium is not my concern. Then I said that I wrote about your dealings with the consortium to show people here the nature of the person behind your posts. I'll make it even clearer for you, 'cos I know you don't understand too well. I used the consortium to show what you are. Got it? If not, have them read it to you again, but slowly.

Really? Then shouldn't you leave that discussion to the Lindens as, according to your own words, they're /ultimately/ the Estate Managers of the Mainland?

Again: You cannot have your cake and eat it, too (meaning: you can't have it both ways). If this is a discussion about "ad farms" then it's meaningless as the Lindens /ultimately/ own the ad farms. It's their problem. Not ours. Not yours.

Err.. let me think for a minute here regarding question 1... is it... hmmm... Linden Lab? Gosh, thanks, I was never ever aware of that.

*BING* Correct answer

And for question 2... hmmm... *furrows brow*... is it... wait a minute... sec... is it... Linden Lab.
I was a little unsure as LINDEN LAB OWNS SECOND LIFE.

*BING* Correct answer

*wipes his forehead after the grueling question and answer session*

It's unlikely the ToS or CS will change to uphold the "rights" of the majority as the vast majority of residents neither pay account fees nor pay tier fees.

But if Linden Lab wishes to extend rights to the "majority" to the point where the "majority" can tell me what I can and cannot do with my parcels, especially when I've not violated the Terms of Service nor the Community Standards, then the "majority" can go ahead and pay my account and tier fees.

Oops. Sorry. The "majority" doesn't pay for crap around this place.