Feedback on Ad Farm Post - Part 2

Their problems are their problems. Your problems are your problems.

I have no interest in getting involved with their problems or your problems as they're not my problems.

Actually as in real life the freedom is controled by the law. You are free as long as you do not disrespect the coletive freedom.

I saw a program in dicovery civilization called "great books", In this program they analysed a book called Crime and punishiment that works exactaly over this subject.

In the book the main char disgress about his freedom to kill some one. Thing that he ultimately do. And after that he is divided between the self guild and certain of his direct to exert freedom.

We see the same here.

Here we can see the same, As the Adv groups fell their freedom offended by the fact that people be offended by the things they place in ad farms, they also be ofended that people close their ad farms from all sides, even if the blocking prims are in other people land, and as him this people should be free (in his own opnion) to place anything they desire in their land.

so I say again I say:

My freedom is not your freedom

or

do what I say, not what I do

Finally...

The bulk of Linden Lab's revenue is derived from TIER FEES which is code for land ownership. And what I'm reading in this thread makes me want to own LESS land, not more of it.

Long, long, long ago I used to participate in the Land & Economy Forum (long since closed) and by using the data contained in the Developers Bonus Awards announcements I could determine what percentage of the resident population actually owned land. Over the course of a year this percentage declined from 12-percent to 6-percent and then the floodgates were opened for free residency (instead of the normal one-week trial).

I once had a discussion with a Linden that resident Profiles should state whether or not a resident was a Premium Member (member of the land-owning class) or a Basic Account as this would create societal pressure for people to upgrade (and, in turn, actually own land and pay tier fees). The Linden felt this was a poor suggestion.

*rolls his eyes*

I honestly don't think Linden staff knows what a bottom line is. But, again, as the Lindens are ultimately responsible for the Mainland (as they're the Estate Managers and this is what "society" wants) then they can pay their own damn tier fees on it.

Good enough for me.

Holy crapola, Weedy... It's been so so so long since we last saw each other.

I agree, as it has to do with "intent." The intent to commit a crime is the same as committing the crime itself.

But as this is a virtual world we have no idea what the intent of another person is. This is an extremely Randian (Objectivist) universe and as with all things Rand a claim does not trump proof.

For example, an empty 16-sq.m parcel with ban lines is not a form of griefing, even if the parcel is priced at a kajillion linden dollars.

However, a 16-sq.m parcel with three-prims emitting particle effects all over the place, spinning so that it encroaches upon neighboring parcels, and screaming at the top of its scripted lungs (as the parcel owner failed to localize sound) is griefing... and is already covered under the Community Standards and are violations of Harassment and Peaceful Enjoyment. Even if the parcel is priced at ten-kajillion Linden dollars the problem is not the price but encroachment and interfering with the gameplay of others.

The first example should never be considered ARable.

The second example certainly is.

It has nothing to do with price.

A far better book regarding this topic (specifically regarding ideas, property, and ownership and how society can be broken down into owners, moochers and looters) is Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

It changed my life.

It's the only book I read.

Thats explains the one eyed view

Very amusing!

*sighs and rolls his eyes*

I'd much rather be an owner than a moocher or a looter.

What would you rather be or did you already answer that question?

Oh, it's a terribly written book. Ayn Rand can belabor a point like she's beating a dead horse into pate. However, it contains two important sections on money and on the ownership of production (ideas).

But, money is never going away and if you don't want people to produce (or, worse, force them to "share" what they've produced) then please have fun starving.

And, yes, it really is the only book I read. After I wear out a copy from repeated readings I dash out to buy a new copy.

*raises an eyebrow*

I am not entirely sure how much of the above is truthful.

I am very sure what I am, but if you like so much Ayn Rand, please read two books

the same author have write the book:

The Virtue of Selfishness

Seens it will fit your views

Already read it, but thanks for your suggestion.

In turn, I have a suggestion for you: Parcel owners who neither violate the Terms of Service nor violate the Community Standards should be allowed to do what they wish with their own land and with no interference.

Well, see, that's the thing. We (the residents in general, not any particular group) are MAKING it "their problem" by showing them our displeasure in many ways, including, but not limited to, tiering down and/or cancelling accounts.

So, yeah, they have the responsibility for allowing the problem to continue to exist and grow, or the responsibility to clean it up. It really is up to them.

Looks like they are choosing to clean it up, finally. Yay.

..and you are here why, again?

I am sorry, your previous message indicates you read only one book. My mistake.

Thats include of course the freedom do build four sided walls around the ad farms, since they are build in the land of the owners that as you say have to be free to what they wish with their own land and with no interference.

Funny that the whole adfarm situation is about just that problem... moochers and looters; you know, the ones who are harassing, extorting, and otherwise abusing the other residents with LAND.

You're right.

and when the terms of service are amended (as they are now) which disallow the abusive practices we are discussing, they won't be allowed to continue. Your point?

Elex Dusk



You make this statement as a statement of fact.

This is your opinion. The FACT is that many people do regard banlines on empty property as a form of griefing.

By stating your opinions as facts is deceptive and does nothing to improve your credibility.

My solution would be that banlines are ONLY active while the parcel owner is online AND within the property bounds.

As soon as the parcel owner logs off or goes to a different region, the banlines should come down untill the owner comes back.

If the land is group owned, and there are people on the allowed access list, the same could apply. When a group member enters the property, the banlines go up until that person leavs.

I abhor banlines. My opinion is that there really is no legitimate use of banlines on property not occupied.

And the FACT of the matter is that many people would agree with me.

zg

Err... again... you can't have it both ways. Either we get to own land or they already own the land (and then there's no reason for me to pay for it as the Lindens can cover their own tier fees... it's their land)

If by residents you mean the moochers that don't pay tier fees... well... no one cares for them as they're not paying anything (the Lindens should only listen to paying customers). Joe Basic Account, who pays nothing to belong to SL, should have no say in anything regarding the parcels I own. Joe Basic Account is not a customer. Joe Basic Account has no potentiality as a customer until he plunks his payment info down and becomes a Premium.

If you by residents you mean other parcel owners I'm not sure why you'd want to give up any of your property rights. If it's for the "good of the community" then I suggest that after all this is over you send them your tier fee bill and see if they pay for it. Remember, it's for the good of the community. And, if they community suggests that you remove artwork from your wall or move your couch then you should do so. Again, it's for the good of the community. Remember, the community is paying for this (even though 94-percent of them don't own land, don't pay tier fees, and don't pay membership fees).

Tiering down is typically meaningless as, unless the land remains abandoned, the new owner will pay the tier fees.

If they're finally getting around to cleaning it up then why do they need a new set of rules as the existing rules already cover most of these problems?

My question remains: Why weren't they already enforcing the existing rules?

Err... the fact is that someone else owns that parcel and they don't want you on it.

Please explain why, you, the person that does not own the parcel, has a right to enter it even though it's not your property and you don't pay the fees associated with it.

My point is there is no reason to ammend the existing rules (which were never enforced) but to go ahead with enforcement of the existing rules.

It's a classic argument. You want more cops to clean up crime.. okay... where are you going to get them? After you get them how do you pay for them?

I would be very surprised if some one that post here do not own land.

The basic problem here is that the ad farm give problems to land owner. A non owner would simply move to a SIM without ad farms if so he wishes. the basic problem is that the ad farms cause problem to neighbour lands.

Also the new users that you so perjoratively call moochers, are the future land owners, that will only buy new plots if fell that will be free of ADV.

I remember how long take to me to find a good plot before I buy my first land;

I changed three times before i realy find my resting place in front of the lindem sea.

No Malls, no ad farms just the sea and sky - god bless windlight

Elex, in the past I have often agreed with you but this time you are so off base that I cant even fathom where your thoughts are coming from. You can not have it both ways.... if you insist that you own all you buy then perhaps getting a open sim on your own system is the answer. We all live together here and MUST get along. Throwing ill-reasoned thoughts out are helping no one, yourself included.

From what I understand the only requirement to participate in the forums is to have payment info on file. That's it.