Should we bother trying to keep this forum open?
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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09-15-2009 08:33
From: Maggie McArdle Mickey, the point people are trying to make here is that as paying customers and long time residents, LL has a really bad habit of forcing change their way instead of listening to their customer base. LL would rather impress potential investors, than hang on to the ones who have been here since the beginning. it's not about the residents anymore. and i truly do believe if many more pick up their toys and leave, YOU won't have a place to play. I don't get to "play" here very often any more....I just use it as a back up income, and concentrate on business. But I watch and listen to the people coming into the store, and they are still playing and having fun. They are buying land, setting up homes and making friends....getting married, and having babies, and buying larger land, and larger homes....and starting businesses, too.....some have been here for several years, and there are new ones getting into the groove every day.....still arriving. I've only seen one or two in forum over the last year.....there is a huge population inworld having fun. In addition to pursuing corporate clients.....maybe LL caters to those who use their service to Have Fun. I don't know. But that's who I prefer to cater to....and there are plenty to go around at the moment. If that changes....I have other options already in place. But I have seen NO change in the number of people inworld enjoying and having fun in my small corner of the world. It is increasing, and not decreasing.....so I personally base my decision to change and adapt based on that population and it's increasing numbers. |
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Seven Okelli
last days of pompeii
Join date: 4 Dec 2008
Posts: 2,300
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09-15-2009 08:38
I'm surprised that no one cited this piece (if they did, sorry I missed it): http://digitaldeity.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/xstreetsl-has-lost-its-soul/The XStreetSL forumites didn't have any luck at all in being heard. They were *told* that they were being listened to. From: Desmond Shang I've said this before... I'll say it one last time. These forums, or something like them, will come back. Given a bit of time. Maybe, but does it really need to? I think having a number of alternative forums is a lot healthier situation. The official borums can stay clean and simple and quite controlled, and there won't be anything wrong with that. Various styles of discussion can happen in the non-LL forums, and all of us are free to belong to none, any, or however many we please. From: Mickey Vandeverre How do you know it's not working if you're not using it? I do look at it occasionally and it does do SOMETHING. Not anything useful to me, though. I think it will be good for newbies and good for corporate types. Once those ppl grow up a bit, they can migrate to one of the alternative forums. I don't see anything wrong with that. However, until LL adds some sort of navigation to the borums, they will keep answering the same questions over and over. And I won't spend any real time there until the site is readable. It hurts my eyes after a few minutes, and I have good eyes. I don't want to encourage them in their folly, however, by posting there. Someone suggested that a Greasemonkey script could overcome some of the site's design and usability problems, but at this point it isn't worth the trouble. Especially if this is a beta, which I doubt. .
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-15-2009 08:49
Mickey is right in that people are using SL for fun and fantasy, inspite of LL's efforts to hinder that by pandering to a new client base. That's pretty much what I am using it for, so I will just concentrate on that, and on other community sits that have like minded people and lett LL 's "New" site go on it's merry way. It just doen't serve my purposes for the most part.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
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09-15-2009 09:00
oh i agree with Mickey on the fun part. but just like her many have invested(some quite heavily) in LLs golden ticket. i know a few who have left. due to LL not keeping promises, forcing change onto residents, putting in shinys that had nothing to do with the grid issues, etc. thats the part i was trying to get across.
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There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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09-15-2009 09:04
From: Milla Janick Some companies think customer retention is a good idea. Apparently Linden Lab is not one of these. The problem is they do anything they want to us and they still retain us. The real issue here is the lack of competition. When it comes to SL, we got nowhere else to go. At least there's SLU as an alternative for the Flog. |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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09-15-2009 09:13
From: Raymond Figtree The problem is they do anything they want to us and they still retain us. . Given the size of the grid and the population vs a year ago, I'm not sure that's entirely clear.
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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09-15-2009 09:28
From: Deira Llanfair Maybe Ray could start a thread on the new flog somewhere explaining the problem and asking for comments and suggestions, and then we could all add to it. It's probably worth the effort to try and get the new forums up-to-scratch - they need working on, but they could be made better than these ones. At the end of the day, it is the quality of the postings that really matter and it would be better all round if the knowledgeable people from this forum find it acceptable to transfer to the new forum - rather than leave. EDIT: Just looked over there and a straighforward, polite discussion is sorely needed. https://blogs.secondlife.com/message/13493#13493I'm not going to start a thread over there. There is no there there as far as I'm concerned. Please feel free to do so, Deira or anyone who thinks it will help. |
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Seven Okelli
last days of pompeii
Join date: 4 Dec 2008
Posts: 2,300
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09-15-2009 09:42
From: Raymond Figtree At least there's SLU as an alternative for the Flog. There are several valid alternatives, and there is a thread about them: /327/94/339353/1.html.
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: I met most of the people I know in Second Life through these forums.
: I learned most of what I know of Second Life through these forums.
: When I couldn't get inworld, these forums were the next best thing.
: And sometimes these forums WERE the best thing.
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EF Klaar
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 330
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09-15-2009 09:48
The flog is NOT for discussions. It is for questions and answers ONLY.
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Taylor Lubezki
Bratty - Neko
Join date: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 498
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09-15-2009 09:54
From: Raymond Figtree The problem is they do anything they want to us and they still retain us. The real issue here is the lack of competition.. QFT If Blue Mars didn't require a super computer and allowed content creation to all it's residents it would be a threat but as it stand now.. It isn't.. So we are all pretty much puppets.
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Ann Otoole
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
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09-15-2009 10:03
From: EF Klaar The flog is NOT for discussions. It is for questions and answers ONLY. I have a feeling LL may be eliminating that as well and get it down to just people Pink Linden likes and/or "the top 10 producers" making glowing supportive comments on how well they are doing courtesy of Linden Lab's direct sponsorship and traffic directing system development to ensure newer residents are funneled to select content providers. As well as the requisite tag lines of "Don't you want your corporation to experience success like this?" After all does LL really need that sort of place for dissent at all? Doesn't the "Answers" section illuminate problems? Would LL not be better served by closing all forums and relegating resident to resident assistance to silence or wiki participation? |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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09-15-2009 10:07
From: Ann Otoole I have a feeling LL may be eliminating that as well and get it down to just people Pink Linden likes and/or "the top 10 producers" making glowing supportive comments on how well they are doing courtesy of Linden Lab's direct sponsorship and traffic directing system development to ensure newer residents are funneled to select content providers. As well as the requisite tag lines of "Don't you want your corporation to experience success like this?"
After all does LL really need that sort of place for dissent at all? Doesn't the "Answers" section illuminate problems? Would LL not be better served by closing all forums and relegating resident to resident assistance to silence or wiki participation? Yeah!! Feeback sucks!! Look at how much all our feedback over the last year has helped them! Nada! Zilch!! Oh.. Wait.. They don't take feedback. Never mind.
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Seven Okelli
last days of pompeii
Join date: 4 Dec 2008
Posts: 2,300
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09-15-2009 10:23
From: Ann Otoole I have a feeling LL may be eliminating that as well and get it down to just people Pink Linden likes and/or "the top 10 producers" making glowing supportive comments on how well they are doing courtesy of Linden Lab's direct sponsorship and traffic directing system development to ensure newer residents are funneled to select content providers. As well as the requisite tag lines of "Don't you want your corporation to experience success like this?"
After all does LL really need that sort of place for dissent at all? Doesn't the "Answers" section illuminate problems? Would LL not be better served by closing all forums and relegating resident to resident assistance to silence or wiki participation? I'm amazed at you, Ann. I thought you were a big supporter of the whole new bloggish thing. I'm not being snide. I'm genuinely curious. Have you changed your opinion? Or am I misunderstanding? .
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: I met most of the people I know in Second Life through these forums.
: I learned most of what I know of Second Life through these forums.
: When I couldn't get inworld, these forums were the next best thing.
: And sometimes these forums WERE the best thing.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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09-15-2009 11:18
From: Raymond Figtree The problem is they do anything they want to us and they still retain us. The real issue here is the lack of competition.
When it comes to SL, we got nowhere else to go.
At least there's SLU as an alternative for the Flog. They won't retain me as a forum user when they make the change. While there are no other viable virtual worlds for me to spend my free time in, I do have other hobbies. The less fun LL makes SL, the more likely I'll be spending more time with them than in SL. I spend a lot of time in these forums, I can and will leave them. I can do the same with SL. Linden Lab should not think for a minute that I am a customer for life. I am at best a customer until the next time my premium membership comes up for renewal. I am also sure that no one at Linden Lab gives a damn, either. |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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09-15-2009 11:22
From: Milla Janick They won't retain me as a forum user when they make the change.. Not even if they get their act together and make the new forums into something decent? I ain't saying that's likely but it is possible.
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LeeLee Szymer
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2008
Posts: 53
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09-15-2009 11:30
this forum is going to go the same way xstreet's did and even though folks say they don't want it there is nothing we can do to stop it, that's the LL way now. I personally hate the new web setup and thats not counting the color scheme so  |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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09-15-2009 11:52
From: Sindy Tsure Not even if they get their act together and make the new forums into something decent?
I ain't saying that's likely but it is possible. I'll stay if they make it something good. Considering how great the Lindens seem to think the blogforum is in its current form, that does not seem likely. |
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
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09-15-2009 11:59
From: Brenda Connolly Twangy?  Like hot coffee on a dark morning, with the downtown train just easing past.
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Fine Young Cannibal
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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09-15-2009 12:08
From: Milla Janick They won't retain me as a forum user when they make the change.
While there are no other viable virtual worlds for me to spend my free time in, I do have other hobbies. The less fun LL makes SL, the more likely I'll be spending more time with them than in SL. I spend a lot of time in these forums, I can and will leave them. I can do the same with SL.
Linden Lab should not think for a minute that I am a customer for life. I am at best a customer until the next time my premium membership comes up for renewal.
I am also sure that no one at Linden Lab gives a damn, either. I actually think there are people over there who give a damn. They are just not in a position to do anything about it. The sad thing is, unlike SL itself which has its technical limitations, an SL forum could have been something great and user friendly. It's just poor decision making. |
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Kalor Rayner
A Face in the Crowd
Join date: 2 Aug 2009
Posts: 423
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09-15-2009 12:17
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Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
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09-15-2009 12:38
From: Ann Otoole From: Sling Trebuchet I think the new blorum thingy will be fine once they add voice to it. And windlight! Oh, God, no! If they did all that, then there would be a 20-30 minute delay between the time you submit a post to when it actually appears, if it even appears at all! And, it will be completely out of order...   |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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09-15-2009 13:15
From: Jig Chippewa I'm not sure if this is going to end up a question or just a "jig-saw" ... LOL This gives me an idea ... |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-15-2009 13:19
From: Jig Chippewa Like hot coffee on a dark morning, with the downtown train just easing past. That's a little better.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
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09-15-2009 13:22
From: Raymond Figtree I actually think there are people over there who give a damn. They are just not in a position to do anything about it.
The sad thing is, unlike SL itself which has its technical limitations, an SL forum could have been something great and user friendly. It's just poor decision making. So Ray....out of curiosity, and not sure if you were around then.....what was it like the first week this forum went up? (and I say first week to the other, knowing the Q&A has been around for a while - but it was the first week we were told to use it as a "forum."  Everyone was bursting with joy? No tweaking required? |
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
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09-15-2009 13:22
From: EF Klaar The flog is NOT for discussions. It is for questions and answers ONLY. and if Pink doesn't like what you say she bites lol see Ciarans blog post here  http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/1594
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