Should we bother trying to keep this forum open?

I hope it hangs around, there's so much in the building and script section.

Forget the building - think about all the sex tapes we've lost!

Because I kind of enjoy creating pJira tickets that get completely ignored I created one with a wishlist for a new forum. We can't prevent LL from migrating the forum, but we can at least try to make Clearspace usable. Yes, I'm naive.

Feel free to add your thoughts and comments:

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1313

Twangy?

It's legitimate feedback, it's valid feedback, it's just not effective. A manager that would interpret it as "we need a better web designer" is the sort of manager who wouldn't have allowed it to get this far.

Web design teams often include graphic artists. Artists are used to getting both good and bad criticism, some even revel in it. Web site teams are used to this sort of criticism and have learned to ignore it. Maybe if the number were 100%, but if it were 95%, they'd just point to the other 5% and call it personal taste, you can't satisfy everyone.

There is a post over there where someone said they loved the new forums because they look modern and these forums look old and outdated. Who's to say that my taste is better or worse than that person's? My response over there wasn't that it was wrong, but that it was wrong to let that be the main reason for preferring one over the other. (It's not quite true in the other direction. Looking like crap is a good enough reason for not wanting to move unless the other site has clear advantages.)

I don't think the new forums *look* like crap.

They just don't work very well.

If you browse some of the topics over at the old XStreet forums you will see it won't matter what you all do or say.. How much you plea and beg to keep your forum community in tact. They are going to destroy it.

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=129364

Page 11 is where it gets really interesting.

But make your plans now.. Find other communities to join. Slapt.me seems to be gaining a great deal of momentum, Meta-Life - Lots of members but not many posting, Metaverse - Haven't' really seen anyone post there in months.. I hear SLU is great.. not a member myself so I can't give any valid input there.

Because format problems aren't the real issue.

"Wee bit smaller" means you don't care about legibility or accessibility; wait till presbyopia sets in. In fact, both this forum and the new ones seem to be 12px. It's not the size, it's the legibility. Contrast is a strong part of it, but I believe the line height is also an issue as well as putting the text off-center. Regardless of the reasons, legibility is not something that should be dismissed so easily.

The spell checker is buggy. It disables the built-in Firefox spell checker, which is superior in many ways (perhaps every way except for not being available in other browsers). Worse, it causes random cursor reposition errors.

That shouldn't come as any kind of surprise. They think everything they do is the best thing since toast.

Looking at the technical section of SL Answers, threads there are already getting a whole lot more views than the technical section here. The end of these forums is a done deal and I don't believe there's anything to be done about it.

The fancy editor doesn't seem to work on my iPod.

Is there any ignore function there?

Also:

* Big gaps between paragraphs.
* Can't break quoted sections up, have to quote multiple times and edit if you want to quote inline.
* Can't copy and paste quoted sections, so you can't merge responses.
* No plain-text editor selection.

I agree - the presentation is ok, but they are not intuitive to use.

Maybe Ray could start a thread on the new flog somewhere explaining the problem and asking for comments and suggestions, and then we could all add to it.

It's probably worth the effort to try and get the new forums up-to-scratch - they need working on, but they could be made better than these ones. At the end of the day, it is the quality of the postings that really matter and it would be better all round if the knowledgeable people from this forum find it acceptable to transfer to the new forum - rather than leave.

EDIT:

Just looked over there and a straighforward, polite discussion is sorely needed.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/message/13493#13493

and I can't find a section for animation questions.

If that's the message you're going to send to LL.....then why would they care? You say you're picking up your toys.....so you're done. Why would they concentrate their efforts on you....instead of the ones who are dealing with the change, and continuing to participate?

When all is said and done, they are still trying to force through a change to a product that is flat out built using the wrong software. A Blog is not a forum, and never will be. It's like asking your vetrenarian to operate on your gallbladder. He may be great if your DOG needs that operation, but he simply is not qualified to do it on a Human.

Or more to the point, it's rather like finding out one morning that LL has replaced your car with a dog cart.

You: "WHAT THE...? Where's my CAR?"

LL: "Oh, we've replaced your vehicle with this shiny new one, don't you like it?"

You: "That isn't my car, it's a freakin' DOG CART! I need my CAR!"

LL: "But it's environmentally friendly! And we included a shiny new coat of paint, and a free kibble dispenser, and a shiny collar and leash for the dog. We even gave you the dog! Meet "Blondin". Shake, boy!" (Dog pees on you.)

You: "GAH! I don't need a kibble dispenser, and that blasted dog just peed on me! I WANT MY CAR BACK!"

LL: "Sorry, ths is what you get now. We don't provide cars any more. But you can go get your own car somewhere else."

You: "Fine! I'll do just that, and you can keep your dog cart and dog."

LL: "But... It's a shiny new vehicle! We'll make improvements to it, eventually, don't you like it?" (Dog pisses on LL and itself, and seems not to notice.)

You: "No, I don't. It may be a fine dog, with a little training. But that dog cart will never be a good car, no matter how many "improvements" you slap on it. Good bye!"

Some companies think customer retention is a good idea. Apparently Linden Lab is not one of these. After all, they have millions of new ones beating down the door to get in, don't they?

Say, isn't today D-Day for Meta's Millions? I'll bet logins are through the roof today!

Mickey, the point people are trying to make here is that as paying customers and long time residents, LL has a really bad habit of forcing change their way instead of listening to their customer base. LL would rather impress potential investors, than hang on to the ones who have been here since the beginning. it's not about the residents anymore. and i truly do believe if many more pick up their toys and leave, YOU won't have a place to play.

This is SO Linden. Jack Linden expressed the same surprise when someone told him people were against the new Adult Content policy. "No one's complained to ME," he said. So he got sent maybe a thousand IMs and notecards. And a few weeks later, he said again, "most people I've spoken to are in favor of it."

The "secret place" where they get feedback is out of their own posteriors. NOTHING residents say is heard.

I used it. In fact, I go over there once a day or so, just to see if someone needs help.

I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I won't go into specifics, LL got a TON of specifics during the early days of use. The only improvement I've seen so far is that now you can have a forum avatar picture. Only took them three months to enable that feature.

General comment: It takes five times as long to find ANYTHING there, whether that's the right sub-forum or a particular post in a thread. And it takes three times as long to assemble and post something.

Compared to this here antiquated, buggy, creaking set of forums, the new shiny Borums are, as usual with LL, an EPIC FAIL.

ok...I had to look up Presbyopia....and on the web site that supplied the definition, the words were HALF the size as they are on the new Q&A.....as is the case on many web sites and some forums.

They offer a function where you can adjust your typing size.....so just use it, and make your typing larger.

When I post here....I type the post into an email to spell check.....then copy and paste into forum. Still do the same there, and haven't used their spell check. Who gives a rat'z azz anyway whether you spell correctly or not? Oh yeah.....someone here does.....but I don't see anyone over there taking on that role as of yet.

But yes....the format is a wee bit difficult to read, if you're used to this format. But everyone has complained about this format forever. And I've seen that on other forums.....there is always a group who is constantly complaining about the format, no matter what the designer does.....they get mad, and move to another forum, then start complaining in that forum.

It's only been up for a week. There are already enough good threads over there for a business owner to browse, and pick up some great tidbits....(this is not directed to you, Kidd)....but to the business owners that are complaining that your wealth of knowledge is being taken away, and that your business is going to be affected by the forum moves.....then you simply have not spent half an hour over there, browsing.

And don't tell me it's too difficult.....my main computer is in the shop, practically dead, and I'm barely functioning on some back-ups....a slow computer on high speed, and a fast computer on dial-up.....and I can still read the information being supplied by some energetic and optimistic people who are not throwing a fit, and packing up their toys. That energy and optimism is how you behave and survive when your RL or SL business is required to change, and there will always be a change of some fashion coming your way. Always.

Sounds like a reporter.

I made the mistake of talking to a reporter on a controversial subject, once. We talked for about half an hour. When I read his story he quoted one sentence out of context to make it sound like my position was diametrically opposite to the one I'd actually taken. When I complained, he said that he thought the other stuff was "background" and that one point indicated that I was happier with the way things were going than I would be in other circumstances. Well, yes, I was happier about it than I would be after an evening with a wire waistcoat and a cheese grater, but ... sheesh.

Pink said this was done to improve things for the shopping area.. I have noticed many comments about how people feel disconnected from the shopping part of XStreet since the move.. I have noticed less traffic since the move as well.

I think the new blorum thingy will be fine once they add voice to it.

Really? I thought they started using this new software like a year ago.

They may have started forcing slex refugees there last week but this stuff is hardly new.


I suspect that when I head to bed tonight, this will have been the funniest thing I read today.

edit: oh! look!! multiple quotes with names!! and a preview button! oooo...

And windlight!