Do we have an "SL-Killer"?

Yeah likewise, waiting for that too.

I said several months ago that Blue Mars might blow SL away in the graphics & stability department and got heckled for it,...on here and Xstreet. I'm sticking with that prediction. That doesn't mean BM will become an overnight success...it has many hurdles to climb over....but a good start none the less.

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's saying you're wrong about that. We're saying that's not the point. If you want great graphics and stability hang out at worth1000.com.

nope ...waiting for BlueMars thank you very much!

For enough disgruntled SL'ers.....this might be at last a viable alternative. I'm not talking in relation to content creation....but for a end user consumer.

It's the crazy content creators who get their start just screwing around in a sandbox using in-world tools that make all the cool shit you consume. If you want to see what happens if you don't have that, look at There and ActiveWorlds. There's no "there" in There, and ActiveWorlds isn't. Active, or a World.

SL didn't suck all the heart out of them by having better graphics. It didn't, back when it started... and without all that content created by actual users solving their own problems and turning the solutions into products it still wouldn't... not even with Windlight. It did it because it sucked in the creators. If it hadn't, it would have just sucked.

I don't think that anything will actually replace SL. I think SL will always be here, but I don't think they will retain the number of users they have now though and I doubt they will always be able to command the price for land that they do now. Not good news for me, I run a residential estate.

So, if Blue Mars does indeed become a world (beta in June) who would move to it?

- consumers who want a richer, more realistic virtual world will take their immediate SL friends

- content creators who are interested in protecting their work

- content creators who aren't dependent on inworld tools and already use programs like PhotoShop, Gimp, 3D Studio Max, Maya, Blender, Poser, etc., or aren't afraid to learn them

- newbies, if they have good marketeers

And who will stay?

- people with older, low-end machines will stay in SL

- virtual entrepreneurs who are interested in creating content but are intimidated by graphics/3d software

To all the "crazy content creators who get their start just screwing around in a sandbox using in-world tools that make all the cool shit you consume" I would say - heck you've come this far, why do you think you can't go further. Gimp & Blender are free. Or use your SL income to invest in yourself and buy 3D Studio Max or Maya.

And to Argent who called shenanigans (thanks for the chuckle, haven't heard that one in a long time on me and said "I call shenanigans. I was creating content and both giving it away and selling it for six months before I rented a damn thing." I would have to ask why you think you couldn't do this in BM? Anyone can apply to become a creator. The option to open a shop is there but I suppose you could always just open your raincoat or sell out of the back of your truck

Well I signed up for the Blue Mars beta, and I wanted to join Open Sim (sims only $145?) but they are still Windoze-only.

Clearly, adult content is not wanted long term in SL. And I'm an adult, so...

Thing is virtual worlds forget it is the USERS who make the world - or break it. And creative types really only need a sandbox and some toys. Who does SL think built their world up into what it is now? Skin makers and hair makers helped to beautify it...animators helped make it livelier. For that...this is how residents are treated.

I just hope any other 'new world' learns from SL's 'people skills' mistakes.

And



Those people can barely run SL now, let alone future updates that may be MORE of a system hog for less payoff, than a new world might offer (maybe), and

Virtual entrepeneurs are rarely 'intimidated'.

From what I saw of the website, you have to have an RL business to apply to create in BM.

By the way - unfortunate acronym, BM.

Was going to mention that earlier . . . but nah . . . this thread has been too much fun to dampen the enthusiasm shown for BM.

[Work in healthcare?]

I think you more or less completely missed the point.

These crazy content creators became crazy content creators because SL provided them a way to get there, taking baby steps, not even intending to become content creators, it just happened.

Blue Mars won't get the equivalent, because you have to decide "I want to be a content creator in Blue Mars" before you can even start. So there's no obvious and automatic avenue by which users in BM just more or less without intending to discover that they're content creators.

Because that's what everyone who's gotten into the beta and talked about it has said. Because the controls that keep you from ripping a texture from the GPU and uploading it as your creation will keep you from distributing and probably even uploading anything permanent until after you've already decided to become a content creator and opened a shop. If it doesn't, then that's a huge glaring hole in their "better copy protection".

SL depends on social factors to do this. As such, it isn't really a selling point of SL but a selling point of particular people in SL. If those people go to BM it will likely be just the same (and just as random).

Plus, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for someone within BM to create a City that allowed prim-style building, if it's really as scriptable as people are claiming that it is? Maybe people with the SDK can confirm/deny?

I didn't read that anywhere, as a matter of fact, their Content Creator Registration form doesn't even ask for a company name:
https://www.bluemarsonline.com/VAC/registration.html

Content Creator registration is a necessary part of protecting the rights the creators. I figure if you register every item you sell with them then it's going to be pretty easy to prove content theft, of any kind. Also, they could easily put a kind of patent on anything original, if they wanted to go that way.

I simply can not pass up the opportunity to build my house completely in 3d Studio Max - architecturing every glorious detail - and then upload it to a virtual world and live in it. The "real" 3d programs have capabilities to do things that make SL tools look child-like & BM has the engine to actually support it. And this is the crux of it really, the basic game engine that runs the virtual world - SL uses an outdated one that is so intricately woven into the fabric of it that it can't really update it, it would have to start over. And they certainly could, but that's what BM is doing now. Hopefully learning from the mistakes that SL has made along the way.

Blue Mars has the potential to be the evolution of what SL is now. If they play their cards right.

Ah, that's new to me. The only registration notice I'd read before is:





Software patents are evil. SL is right to debar them via the TOS.



Sure, but requiring people to pay US$3000 to begin creating on a par with others is something that Argent would rightfully complain about. Certainly, I would say that Blue Mars should require, along with its creator registration, proof of a legitimate license for such creation tools if they are going to be used.

Correct. I explicitly told BM that I was not a company, and I got the SDK.

As for building sandboxes in BM, I have no idea how versatile the Lua scripting language is, not explored that yet. But anyone can get the SDK once it is out of beta and create to their heart's content inside one of several built in cities. You only need to be a resident to upload it into the Blue Mars VW.

And Argent, I don't think many people created anything cool entirely within a sandbox in SL, unless you call plywood boxes 'cool'. It is textures, anims, sounds etc that bring creations to life, and generate cries of 'cool', and they all have to be created outside of SL.

Can you create a simple sofa, nicely textured, and complete with sit and lounge poseballs, entirely within a sandbox?

Even using the meagre offerings in the Inventory Library folder it is hard to produce cool content, and the Library when SL first started was not a 1/10 of what it is now.

Rock

It sounds like you e-mailed them against their instructions, though, in which case they were at least _attempting_ to keep non-companies out.

Well I figured that their need for "compelling social spaces, entertainment experiences, and creative content" would be more important to them than a business name, so I applied anyway, told them I was not a business, provided details of what I have created in other VWs, offered to provide screenshots if required (which they did not take up), and the link to the SDK was duly sent.

BTW, if you wish to start creating for BM right now, you can, without the need for the BM SDK. You can use the CryTech Sandbox 2 and SDK instead (and you only need them to see what you content will look like inside BM, you can create right now in a variety of 3D apps).

Rock

I loved watching Whinge make his early avatars out of prims... they already looked cool even when they were still in plywood "What's this one" "Oh wow, that's an otter"...

And the coolest thing I made, entirely in world, used nothing but stock SL textures and non-sculpted prims, and my scripts, until I did a version for tinies and Wynx Whiplash made a Tiny version of the motorcycle pose for me. And I have plenty of people telling me that my "Moewe" is cool, so it's not just me.

No, but I can create a totally cool and aerobatic jet glider that seamlessly switches between "ground effect" and "flight" mode and just plain rocks, entirely within a sandbox, left arm waving at weird angles as I move prims and scripts around all the while.

Could have been just for that period, but in any case, just asking for a business name in the list of contact info is not the same as saying you are required to be a business.



Well, I've never heard of that requirement, but sure if they wanna ask for a license, whatever. But you pointed out only the price of the most expensive tool out there. I mentioned building in 3D Studio Max only because I happen to already have it. There are also free tools that can be used to create content, there is no requirement to pay $3G to be creating on par with others. There isn't any content type thing that you could create in 3dSM that you couldn't also do in Blender.

Rock - I agree. However, you actually can create a simple sofa, nicely textured, and complete with sit and lounge poseballs, entirely within a sandbox. You can sit there and buy all the parts from XStreet and assemble them. People aren't actually creating entirely original work, they are assembling previously created "parts" to make a unique item. This is the kind of content creation that will not exist in BM and somehow I don't think we'll miss it

Bullshit. That's not the only in-world content creation, and if you don't know it you're fooling yourself.

Nonetheless, they _did_ specify a business name, and so you were outside what they were actively trying to recruit. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's great you got in, but it's a far cry (groan? ) from "anyone" being able to.



Because.. um.. evidently a non-business would have a business name..???



Right, but why does anyone pay the $3000 for 3DSmax if it doesn't get them an advantage over Blender users?

The suggestion about checking for a license isn't something they do, it's something I suggested they do to stop a "domino effect" of piracy of such software.

Perhaps I was unclear. Creating completely within SL feels like assembling to me because the only thing you can actually create yourself are prims, and even they are hopelessly limited compared to any real 3d program. All textures, animations, sounds, sculpted shapes, etc. have to be someone else's work because you can't make them in-world.

Also, you have to build within the confines of prim limits. That isn't an issue in BM.

Just imagine the "totally cool and aerobatic jet glider" that you could design in a real 3d program. Why not learn Blender? It's free. Interface is odd but I hear when you learn the program it's the perfect interface for it.

Many reasons. Because they collaborate with others who use it, because they did some course that included it as part of the tuition, because they worked with it at a company years ago and that's what they know so they invested in themselves when they went freelance and are really glad they did

I did some research into Blender when I was considering doing sculpties for SL because it imports easier. It is a real-deal full fledged 3d program and will be able to do anything 3dSM can do in regards to making content for a virtual world. Now, if you were making animated 3d sequences for Hollywood, you might want 3dSM. 3dSM is still overkill, even for BM.

I have downloaded Blender, but not installed it or used it yet (that is still way down the road until I get much more acquainted with terrain creation in BM). Does it have the ability to create animations as in 3DSM?

Rock

Hell yeah! Check out this link to Features and Gallery of work made entirely in Blender:
http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/
There are lots of videos and still as well as some feature videos you'll definitely want to check out.

Blender can do a LOT but most of it is usless in SL, because all you can really use are sculpted prims, you can't make complicated items and load them into SL and expect them to function. You can in a real 3d program. And when you know the program you can do a lot more a lot easier than you can in SL.

You can do this tooling around in 3DS or SketchUp with any virtual world in the back ground or on the 2nd monitor, like i can. The creation tools being external the virtual world does not stifle creativity. In fact, you can set lighting, texture bake, animate, and more from within the same package. This lends a great deal of imagination and scope to the creative process.

The downside is that you cannot sit and gaze at someone you are fond of building and get lost in their subtle motions....And there are i am sure other cons for other people. I just am not of the school that the tools being outside the program make that big a difference anymore.

I did not feel like this until i got into the BM world and saw what could be done.