Blue Mars Progress

Estate owners have a teeny weenie fraction of the ability to control and restrict users that is promised in Blue Mars, therefore that's an entirely reasonable concern.

Then those City owners will suffer the lack of users (players, guests, friends, etc) due to their restrictions. If that is what they want then they will have it.........if not then they will either change or go bust.

How many threads over the past almost 4 years I've been reading these forums have been started with estate owners and/or residents of estates screamed for more control over what they can do with their "purchased" land? Well, here's a place for those people (MAYBE, since there has been a lot of confusion introduced by speculation over what BM is or is not designed to be).

Competition among the city developers will dictate most of what happens in any city. I doubt your concerns will come to fruit, though it is entirely possible. It's possible for someone to develop a game that only allows people with an IQ of 150 or higher to participate (pass an IQ test much like you agree to the End User Agreement before installation of most any software)............think that will happen on a wide scale anytime soon? But the ability to do so is there. I believe some would appreciate it (I'm not one, but it's not my choice).

I believe you are being a little over reactive at this point in time. Two years from now and what you find in BM to be what you are saying is possible then your concerns become prophecy and you are a hero..........I don't see that happening. Competition will take care of that long before it happens. Time will tell.

See my above post for what I believe. It won't happen on any wide scale unless there's a market for it. If the market is there then us who cannot accept those terms will not be allowed to participate. If there's no market........it won't happen.

I'm not making that assumption.

Don't know, don't care, don't want more control over what avatars can wear on my land. Don't want other people to have that control either. Don't care if there's a market for it: there's a MUCH bigger market for Warcraft than SL, but that doesn't mean I want SL to be like Warcraft.

Who are you to WANT or NOT WANT what anyone else might want? It's not up to you. If you ever get in BM and find you DON'T WANT what the platform offers then you can leave...........and not one of the people will DO WANT what the platform is will even care. Let alone miss you.

You speak with percieved authority on the subject........you have none. You speak with percieved expertise.........you have none. It appears to me that you are simply trash mouthing something for the sake of trash mouthing it.

Guess I'm done for now......I've stated my insight and perceptions as clear as I can. Until I get a chance to actually go to Blue Mars I have little else to offer. Perhaps Rick (who actually has experience.....therefore, at least, some expertise with the subject) will post something new that will give me more to comment on. As of now I'm going in circles..........someone(s) trying to convince me of facts that are actually mere speculations. Those people have not convinced me...........and won't till they offer more that a lot of "what ifs" or "it may happens" or "I don't like that possibility" or "I don't wants". Get a better argument.

"I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox, baby. I get weirder things than you in my cereal box."

Sure, same as Warcraft. I want something like SL, and giving landowners the kind of control that BM promises would lead to an environment that isn't like a unified world, like SL, but rather like a bunch of separate games. That might well be a more popular and profitable platform than SL, but it won't be like SL, and it won't be relevant to SL.

Not my concern at all, just stating the facts ma'am.

What you have stated here, though simply written, contains a very complex subject matter as it raises fundamental questions about design, implementation, and maintenance, of a 3D environment.

Some ramblings:

What market conditions exists that Avatar Reality thought it profitable to roll out a 3D product?
There is existing competition from game developers who offer incredible graphics and sound immersion. What makes a developer on the BM platform stand out that people would want to pay for that experience?
Will AR choose city developers based on market need, and close down those they see at odds with market conditions or their brand image?
Will only the wealthy developers succeed who can drive out/keep out the competition by having the best and brightest talents, below market prices, and expensive marketing campaigns?
What segment of society is BM geared toward?
SL can adjust to market demands, even if it means building a new continent and moving residents. Will AR force developers to adjust to market challenges to maintain a certain profit margin or creative edge?
If users truly do dictate to the developers what features are needed, doesn't that defeat the purpose of theme control and lead to a SL scenario where there is a loss of a predictable experience?
And, of course, cost information for the end user is not publicly available. That may be the big deciding factor for any end user.

I am fortunate to live on an estate that has few restrictions in place: No bans lines, act nicely, respect others, use common sense, a bit of RP and theme but not overly so. And, I can wear my lucky golf socks any time and any where I want!

I'm quoting your entire posting Marcush, because this is new information for me.

Is it really true that BM won't be anything else than a 3D shell for other games? If so, then we don't even have to discuss BM here since it would have nothing to do with SL whatsoever.

@ Rock: Thanks for your reply (a few pages back). It looks like only very experienced users from 3D software (Max, Maya etc) will be able to make content for BM. That's good as far as the beauty of BM is concerned. But my feeling is that the success of SL has a lot to do with the ability to create 'prims' and selling them (economy for everyone). If this content creation option will never be in BM, don't you think BM will have no future at all? Or maybe only as a shell for inworld games, like Marcush said?

Some answers that are feasible (at least in my mind):

.....................................

Some ramblings:

What market conditions exists that Avatar Reality thought it profitable to roll out a 3D product?
>
Who knows for sure? Ask National Geographics maybe.

There is existing competition from game developers who offer incredible graphics and sound immersion. What makes a developer on the BM platform stand out that people would want to pay for that experience?
>
Who said Blue Mars was a platform for game developers ONLY? I mean who says that who is actually in a position to know.

Will AR choose city developers based on market need, and close down those they see at odds with market conditions or their brand image?
>
Maybe. But my counter question is: Is that necessarily a bad thing? Bad press due to some developer might get that developer in some sort of "trouble". Not much different from any other rent/lease/frachise based business in any other RL setting.

Will only the wealthy developers succeed who can drive out/keep out the competition by having the best and brightest talents, below market prices, and expensive marketing campaigns?
>
A distinct possibility. But then again, is that really a bad thing?

What segment of society is BM geared toward?
>
Reading their website it seems their target demographic has quite a wide range. Education, business, games, social.........and more.

SL can adjust to market demands, even if it means building a new continent and moving residents. Will AR force developers to adjust to market challenges to maintain a certain profit margin or creative edge?
>
That may happen..........though since the developers are paying some fee to exist on the platform I doubt it happen any more so than it does on SL. They are getting income no matter what happens to the developer's profit.

If users truly do dictate to the developers what features are needed, doesn't that defeat the purpose of theme control and lead to a SL scenario where there is a loss of a predictable experience?
>
Well, on a city by city situation it could. Isn't that a good thing though? But, for the Blue Mars platform as a whole it would sort of defeat the designers' plan.........but that can happen to any platform (even SL).

And, of course, cost information for the end user is not publicly available. That may be the big deciding factor for any end user.
>
I think they are leaving pricing up to the city developers to determine. Avatar Reality has set the costs for developers......that's all they are concerned with. Does LL give any cost information for rent, clothing, builds, etc?

I am fortunate to live on an estate that has few restrictions in place: No bans lines, act nicely, respect others, use common sense, a bit of RP and theme but not overly so. And, I can wear my lucky golf socks any time and any where I want!
>
And, I bet once Blue Mars gets more or less settled there will be places you can do that too. And, remember, there are people like me who don't want to wear lucky golf socks.

.........................................................

Hope that helps you out.

I had that once, to be thrown into something where nothing can be changed within an adequate time with adequate efforts and adequate tools.

Thing is known as globe and circumstance being thrown in is known as birth.

The rest of life is more or less: tourism. Through schools, jobs, constitutions and ends in a box. (Literally)

BM looks very much like tourism and only tourism and as a big box where all found its end before any start.

Maybe it (BM) can survive since there are many tourists in globe, grown up as well drilled tourists through life.

Then there was something (SL) where I decided to throw myself in and found much something and very much nothing in one.

Much better from my view, because in SL I can start with the box, dragged out of my pocket (so to speak) and making as much copies of the box until I have made a creation from the (linked) boxes.

Tourist types will be happy with BM. Pioneer and conquerer types will still stay or new landing in SL.

Especially since a SL plot or the avatar appearance and much more can be conquered every day new, if one like.

Beside all troubles with LL sometimes, is being god of the boxes on 512m² - 65 536m² much more value than being just tourist on 500 000 000m² where I could do nothing than staring at dead things like in a museum where everyone is happy to find the exit ASAP because a museum is kind of a graveyard for dead and ready made things which had all possible processes behind them and which are yelling from the walls: "Don't touch me!"

Thank you for taking the time to answer these dreadful ramblings. You are quite patient and thoughtful.

Just a comment or two . . . some things I said had no moral value, good or bad, attached to them.

I did not mean to imply that the BM platform would be for gaming only, just that the games market has a well established platform for introducing new worlds. Avatar Reality is starting from scratch trying to make a niche. That's not bad either.

And, you might find lucky golf socks are good for other areas in life too.

Tourist vs creators. Yeah that makes sense. But, have you actually read much about BM? I have.........and guess what. One can be a creator in BM........just like one can become a creator in SL. Difference is (and, in my perspective, big) that in order to become a creator you must demonstrate some level of competance at actually creating. Can anyone who just happens to join BM and start a business the same day? Probably not......though if they already have the required level of skill under their belt that may be a different story. My reading of content creation in BM tells me that there are quite a few 3rd party programs that are suitable for creating content. And tools are made available for free to any resident who wants them to actually create the content to be used in BM. The difference is that you won't be doing that in world like SL You do that in a designated area (some sort of sandbox) before it's actually uploaded for use in BM.........tested in some way I would imagine before it's allowed in world (that is speculation on my part from what I've read). Guess what that eliminates...........one of the major causes of lag, prims or content used for griefing, intellectual property right violations, theft of content. A whole slew of problems so many have whined and complained about that exist in SL.

Most users of SL are your, so called, tourist anyway...........it's really only the "content creators" in SL that I hear crying the loudest. Prehaps they think their skill level for SL might not be quite up to par in BM?

I intend to give it a shot at content creation. And I'm a complete amatuer. I managed to learn GIMP with a few tutorials and a great book. I feel pretty confident that I can learn the programs required for content creation in BM too. If not, then I'll have loads of fun trying.

Just in case anyone doesn't know. Blue Mars now has its own Forum, but its not as vibrant and outspoken as this one. It needs guys like you to start posting there.

https://www.bluemarsonline.com/forum/


PPP ( Am I the only one feeling uneasy using Linden Labs forum to discuss a potential competitor)

Curious you feeling uneasy, and so uneasy to feel the need to cross post your feeling of unease even though you never commented in any BM thread.

There is no reason for me to post on the BM forum because what is there already clearly states the BM platform shortcomings. Could go over there and rehash a couple of things, but to what end?

And, at least most of my posts are in response to comments from BM believers whose posts bash SL users by referring to them, e.g., as blingtards and trailer trash, or who are hyping the BM platform as the greatest thing since the creation of the photon.

I find great beauty, creativity and talent in SL, and so far, there is nothing in any of the BM cities that tops it. Yep, the BM platform has a different set of features, but the cities it contains are not any more beautiful, nor are the people who build it any more talented or creative than those found in SL.

There is also the unofficial unmoderated forum, where you can rant, if you wish, at:

http://life-on-mars.proboards.com/

Rock

I got into BM yesterday...

and I have to say, "not impressed" would be outrageously flattering to those guys.

First thing, I don't know what everybody is rambling on about the "better graphics"... At least on my current computer, SL looks better and the graphics performance is way better.
Even though BM has shadows.

Second, the "user interface" is a joke. No avatar control by keyboard unless you go into mouselook? and even then it needs a complex mouse interaction just to turn left or right? The "Popups" for inventory or animations take ages to open, and have a good chance to crash the whole thing...

Third, the set of existing features is an even bigger joke. No IMs, no "profiles". Not even a way to give someone directions to a place. Ok, a coordinate system like in SL would be moot anyways, since you can't tell a friend where you are unless that friend is already there.

Fourth, the bugs. Some of them are so hilariously bad that whoever coined the current state of affairs as "beta" should be sent back to software development school. With a mighty kick in the butt. For example this one: on my own screen i see my male avatar... on other people's screens my avatar switches randomly between male and female.
Or the one that makes people randomly appear and disappear... Or the way those annoying chat bubbles obscure the (mostly useless) chat history, if the person talking is standing behind you...

Fifth, everybody looks the same. That, in combination with the lack of IMs, and the fact that there's no way to see avatar names, makes for a pretty lonely place.

... OK, the promised "one server will be able to hold several thousand avis" has potential, but from what BM looks like right now I'd say I'll be back for a second look in maybe two years.

I have a Pentium 4 running XP, and a Nvidea 8800GTS with 3Gb RAM, and the differences in graphics quality is astounding between BM and SL. However, my work colleague has just taken delivery of a new machine for his graphics work, a Core i7, Visa Ultimate 64 bit, and Nvidea GTX295. So I persuaded him to download BM from my link, and SL, so we could do a side-by-side. The differences were staggering! I mean, absolutely jaw-droppingly different. [Edit: we set the SL graphics to ultra, and the BM graphics to 4 = Very High].

If you have a regular TV you will not see the difference between a regular TV transmission and a HD transmission. The same goes with PCs. If you have a low-spec PC you can run BM, but don't expect to be able to see the differences.


I don't know where this comes from. You can move the avatar by using the keyboard WASD keys, or by using the arrow keys, or by clicking the ground where you want the avatar to go to. What would you like to do with avatar control that you currently cannot?


IMs in next release, no idea about profiles. Functionality is being added in chunks, and this method has meant rapid bug-fixing as the reports are concentrated. All functionality will be in place by the time it comes out of beta.

The purpose of beta is to report back bugs and make suggestions for improvement. Did you file any bug reports, or make suggestions in the Beta Tester Forum? Chat bubbles are very likely to be replaced, or made switchable.


That is true. The purpose of the beta is as I mentioned before, not for everyone to start playing with their avatar appearance, however, the Cosmetics Editor allows you to customise the head, and I am seeing lots of variation now. The full Avatar Editor will be launched shortly along with the Animation Editor.

I mean, this beta is only around 4 months in total, is that so bad? If you don't want to be part of the pioneer group that is actually testing functions and providing bug feedback and making suggestions for improvement, then simply come back when BM launches. No need to wait a couple of years, 1st Jan 2010 is the slated date.

Rock

I have a core 2 duo, 3gig ram, and a geforce 9400. SL at ultimate looks better & moves better than BM at the default. How, btw, do you "set the BM graphics" to anything, I havent seen any "preferences" thing.



I wouldn't call my PC "low-spec" at all, thanks. SL at "Ultimate" with up to 60 fps is hardly low-spec.



... Neither Arrow keys nor WASD did anything, except in "mouselook", and even there i had to use the mouse to turn left or right.




Beginning of 2010... I seriously have my doubts about it.

I finally got in last night. And found it rather boring - even for a beta.

No names means you have no idea who anyone is until they speak - which seems really crazy, heh.

You can't IM either. You can't really walk about, you have to point at the floor and you waddle over to it.

All the avatars look alike at the moment - very limited choices of hair, for example - if there are more choices, I sure couldn't find them. All the girls look like J-Pop stars (agreeably, we are all gorgeous, but it is not so nice being gorgeous if everyone else is equally so). Oh, and we wiggle about all the time, the defaut 'ao' is horrendous, hehe

There is no tutorial area, so you have no idea how to do ANYTHING. I managed to find someone who told me where the (very basic) tutorial page was - and boy, I mean basic. I don't know if one can build or anything in the beta - didn't find any way of finding out either.

I went to a place and wandered around. Didn't see anyone else. Did see some posters for a competition with an expiry date of 19th August.

Yes, the graphics are nice - but right now it seems rather like Twinity - just totally empty and boring. And without some sort of tutorial at the beginning to tell you ANYTHING, the first half hour is just annoying and frustrating - I wasted ages poking people wondering why I couldn't see their names or how to IM them or anything at all.

Mind you, I could change my eye makeup - so I guess there's one big plus *sigh*

I know it is the beta right now, but surely having a few basic pointers of how to work the camera and stuff would have made sense, doh?

Elgyfu,

There are a number of video tutorials now on these subjects,

A huge new Welcome Centre is currently under construction (I am involved in that), with Flash-based info screens covering all the points you make, and more, in up to 15 languages. It is 'on approval' so I hope to give it as much 'wow' factor as possible so AR run with it.

Lance,
Didn't mean to impugn your PC, it was your phrase 'at least on my current computer..' made me think you had an old or low-spec machine, and the huge difference myself and others are seeing.

WSAD should always work (report it if it doesn't on your PC), but to use the arrow keys left-click your avatar first to switch it on.

You can change the graphics setting for Blue Mars by following these instructions:

AR will introduce inworld methods for changing resolution and graphical settings in a future release.

Rock

I downloaded it this morning. Don't know if it's just me, but I can't get past the avatar creation screen. I've chosen my facial characteristics, confirmed 2 or 3 times, and then nothing. Relogging only takes me straight back to the av creation screen.

What glaringly olvious, trumpeted fanfare am I missing?

I have the same problem!!

I also downloaded the 0.0.4910.2 patch for face creation, after reading their twitter page. It seems some weren't getting access to the DONE button (incl me). I downloaded it, rebooted just in case and tried again. Same deal

I TOO got stuck at the AVATAR creation page and gave up clicking "Done" bit at the end.

Was looking forward to see this new world but couldn't even finish creating an avatar there.

Tried all different screen resolutions and still could not click the "Done" button. Using Vista at 1024 x 768 blah blah blah and tried all the other resolutions on my monitor too including the recommended 1280 x 768. Got bored in the end and gave up.

using a 9800GT card and latest VISTA wif 4gb RAM

I went back to BM after visiting it for the first time one week ago. I was hoping for the wow-factor, graphically comparing it to SL, but my experience was even worse than the first time.

I didn't find the graphics impressive anymore, I hate the avatar and camera movement tools even more than before, and the chat bubbles and lack of avatar recognition are really annoying.

What can I say? Whoever is behind BM should have their heads examined. The engine gives many opportunities, but the execution of possibilities in BM is poorer than poor.

BM will go nowhere, no success at all. It makes you wonder. We all curse LL for lag, rules whatever. But when I log into BM and go back to SL, I admire LL for the world they created. My compliments.