Rosedale resigns....
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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03-14-2008 20:18
From: Chip Midnight AOL was an extremely cool place to be back in the early 90's. It was populated almost exclusively by early adopter types and the mean IQ level was very high - rather like the early days of SL. (Full disclosure: on AOL's TV commercials from around 1993-1996 I was the person driving the cursor). What AOL did was make the internet easy and accesable to the mainstream at a time when it wasn't (with very few exceptions). Not everyone thought BBSs were the end all be all. The geek squad was there in force (and at CompuServe) until there were greener pastures.
SL is following a very similar path. It started out as almost a private party for techy geeks and artists but now has opened up this relatively new genre to the mainstream. That's a good thing. Anything that posters at Slashdot look down their enormous ego-swelled coke-bottle lensed glasses supporting noses at must be doing something right. Personally I find that place pretty insufferable most of the time. I'd say SL becoming the AOL of virtual worlds would be a best case scenario, not worst. Unless it also becomes a nanny state in the process. I don't mean that it is liable to, I doubt that actually unless they move their head offices.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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03-14-2008 20:22
From: Cherry Czervik I agree with this. 100%. The games dev industry in particular are in massive contempt. That's just because they can't figure out how to level up 
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 http://slurl.com/secondlife/TheBotanicalGardens/207/30/420/
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Pie Psaltery
runs w/scissors
Join date: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 987
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03-14-2008 20:42
Fabulous!!! Now we will finally be able to become more sanitized, homogenized and packaged for easy consumption. From: Chip Midnight I'd say SL becoming the AOL of virtual worlds would be a best case scenario, not worst. You mean being reduced to the lowest common denominator is a good thing? Hope ya got a good price on your soul, Phil. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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03-14-2008 20:53
From: Chip Midnight Really I just want to see a new CEO come on board and say "We need more texture layers on avatars. Get it done in four months without breaking anything, or else!"  Exactly. I want the Tao of Linden and the (VERY political) Love Machine gone. Here's part of what I wrote on SLU when I first heard of this: _____ I have a wait-and-see attitude, but I will be happy if this means that the Tao of Linden will be thrown out and Employees Will Be Told What to Do. Here's how I figure it: I pay those employees. (That is to say, we all do.) I don't want them working at SL for their own pleasure. Or for their own self-development. I want them working at SL to give us what we need. So I want someone telling them what to do. I get tired of paying a bunch of kids to have fun, and I think we have seen (and Philip has seen) that that doesn't really work in the long run. So - get rid of the Tao, get rid of the "self-directed" work, and start telling people what to do, and what to fix, and by what deadline. Just like every other place in the world. Even if some of it isn't fun, and no one really wants to do it. And remind the employees every single blessed day just exactly who it is that they ALL work for, and who really pays them. And that ain't Phillip. coco |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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03-14-2008 20:57
From: Rihanna Laasonen One manufactured with environmentally unfriendly processes, transported in the hundreds of millions by fossil-fuel-burning vehicles, to a recipient who doesn't want it, for the sole purpose of ending up in a landfill. Unless, of course, the recipient is one of those who uses to them to make thrones, lamps, giant fish, or other crafty things: http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/2007/10/aol-cd-art-bike.htmlhaha My older daughter painted them (and other useless CD's), twisted them in various ways, and hung them from her ceiling on strings as mobiles. coco |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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03-14-2008 21:41
If you put the CDs outside on strings in the sunlight the refraction is very pretty in the trees or sides of buildings when the wind blows.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to
http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne
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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.
Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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03-14-2008 22:00
From: Pie Psaltery You mean being reduced to the lowest common denominator is a good thing? No, Pie. You can stand outside and decide who's cool enough to come in. 
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
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03-14-2008 22:59
To be fair about the Tao of Linden; I just recently left an extremely successful engineering firm that has around 320 employees across the globe. They'd muddled along for years without any sort of company-wide "here's who we are" policy... the engineers made stuff, the marketing guys marketed it, and the sales guys sold it. All great, until you start actually having more than 200+ employees. Then ideals, motivations, and direction get fractured by warring parties. When I was there, we implemented a sort of feel-good "Brand DNA" strategy that actually got us all on the same page with who we were and what we were trying to accomplish. I'm not sure that it dramatically changed anything, but at least everyone had to admit that they KNEW exactly WHAT the company's goals were.
If LL's Tao Of Linden is something like that, then I don't really have a problem with it. Sort of harmless, but lets everyone get on the same page re: production and problem solving. I'd like to see this new CEO come out with a concrete Brand DNA and identify exactly what LL is supposed to be and where they want it to go in the next 5 years and the next 10 years.
I think that the thing that I'm most afraid of with this new CEO is the PG-ification of SL. No one here wants it to be the Wally World or Disneyland of the internet. There are plenty of other places for that. SL is the Wild Wild West of virtual worlds and it'd be sort of nice if it stayed that way...
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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03-14-2008 23:04
From: Oryx Tempel To be fair about the Tao of Linden... Very few of the ToL comments I've heard sound like they were trying to be fair. That or like they're from people who've never worked at a tech company. I've always thought it sounded like a great idea. |
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
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03-14-2008 23:08
From: Sindy Tsure Very few of the ToL comments I've heard sound like they were trying to be fair. That or like they're from people who've never worked at a tech company. I've always thought it sounded like a great idea. Exactly my point. Engineers hate to be micromanaged... but if everyone has "The Big Picture" in mind, rather than their own tiny little part, the Tao would actually work. |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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03-14-2008 23:21
Yes, but the Tao has limitations. When bugs can sit for a year, untouched, because someone just doesn't feel like working on it, that's not a plus. It's especially offensive when new features are implemented that seem to just generate more bugs.
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Affordable & beautiful apartments & homes starting at 150L/wk! Waterfront homes, 575L/wk & 300 prims! House of Cristalle low prim prefabs: secondlife://Cristalle/111/60http://cristalleproperties.info http://careeningcristalle.blogspot.com - Careening, A SL Sailing Blog
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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03-15-2008 00:58
From: Oryx Tempel If LL's Tao Of Linden is something like that, then I don't really have a problem with it. Sort of harmless, but lets everyone get on the same page re: production and problem solving. It sounds like it was successful at the company you worked at. That would be the difference. It clearly has not been successful at LL so it's time for them to toss it and get down to business. Having lived in the Bay Area and knowing the competition LL has for staff with so many laid back companies, I don't think they'll become the hard core management many of us would like. However, expecting results from your staff is pretty basic, yet so far they haven't gotten that. From: Oryx Tempel I think that the thing that I'm most afraid of with this new CEO is the PG-ification of SL. No one here wants it to be the Wally World or Disneyland of the internet. There are plenty of other places for that. SL is the Wild Wild West of virtual worlds and it'd be sort of nice if it stayed that way... If LL continues to believe their future is in bringing in the corporate world, then SL cannot continue to be Wild Wild West. It's going to have to change. I'm not saying I want to see that, but it's just the hard truth. If it's the direction they continue to pursue I would expect to see them start cleaning up SL eventually. The other option would be to ensure access restrictions and limitations. Then they can continue to have the wild and woolly SL we know today, yet offer a cleaner and sanitized SL for corporation and those that want it.
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My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Broccoli Curry
I am my alt's alt's alt.
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,660
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03-15-2008 01:04
Has anyone nominated Chuck Norris yet?
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~ This space has been abandoned as I can no longer afford it.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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03-15-2008 01:14
From: Cocoanut Koala haha My older daughter painted them (and other useless CD's), twisted them in various ways, and hung them from her ceiling on strings as mobiles.
coco Mine did too! And here is the best thing. Hang those CD's in fruit trees and it scares a lot of birds away. They don't like the flashy-flashy somethings in the trees. RE: SL becoming the AOL of 3d worlds - I mean that in the sense that SL may make 3d worlds a sort of social phenomenon for regular people, the way AOL did that for the internet.
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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03-15-2008 10:20
From: Oryx Tempel To be fair about the Tao of Linden; I just recently left an extremely successful engineering firm that has around 320 employees across the globe. They'd muddled along for years without any sort of company-wide "here's who we are" policy... the engineers made stuff, the marketing guys marketed it, and the sales guys sold it. All great, until you start actually having more than 200+ employees. Then ideals, motivations, and direction get fractured by warring parties. When I was there, we implemented a sort of feel-good "Brand DNA" strategy that actually got us all on the same page with who we were and what we were trying to accomplish. I'm not sure that it dramatically changed anything, but at least everyone had to admit that they KNEW exactly WHAT the company's goals were.
If LL's Tao Of Linden is something like that, then I don't really have a problem with it. Sort of harmless, but lets everyone get on the same page re: production and problem solving. I'd like to see this new CEO come out with a concrete Brand DNA and identify exactly what LL is supposed to be and where they want it to go in the next 5 years and the next 10 years.
I think that the thing that I'm most afraid of with this new CEO is the PG-ification of SL. No one here wants it to be the Wally World or Disneyland of the internet. There are plenty of other places for that. SL is the Wild Wild West of virtual worlds and it'd be sort of nice if it stayed that way... That's not the problem with the Tao of Linden. The problem is nobody tells anybody else what to do. http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/07/25/the-tao-of-linden/coco |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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03-15-2008 10:36
Personally, I don't see the Tao as a major problem. It's a good recruiting blurb, and there are a lot of ways for a manager to interpret it. I see evidence all the time that some LL developers and support people simply do what they're asked to do. I'm sure there are early employees with a chip on their shoulder rooted in the Tao, but that happens with companies that don't have the Tao as well.
However, the Love Machine - while I sure don't know the details, everything I've heard about it seems to indicate it's a potentially destructive management mechanism.
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bucky Barkley
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2006
Posts: 200
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03-15-2008 11:13
The ToL is a problem. It's still on the web site: http://lindenlab.com/about/taoIf it were amazon or google or apple, cool. The problem with the 'pick your own work' and 'do it with style' bit is that you dont keep touting it when the system is so fragile. The underlying thing going on with the Tao is.. it throws responsibility onto everyone, and there are few adults in charge to make sure that things get done. It's utopian / idealistic way of approaching things. Example: in light of the inventory problems we saw last year (just to mention one particular example out of many), a more professional public face should have been presented, from the top, and frequently. That means you say: * our VP of engineering / CTO takes it seriously, and will be posting an update to the blog once a week -- go back and look - where was Cory? * this is cutting edge tech, but we understand that people are losing a lot of money from missing inventory, and we will do our best to make things right -- go back and look - where were the reassuring comments from Phil when the residents needed to hear them? .. but you dont persist with 'pick your own work' when things FUBAR'ed. You get an adult to set priorities immediately, and you do good PR to your customers and 3rd parties so that you can retain them! Bucky (software developer since the early 80's)
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Bucky Barkley -- Mammal, Scripter, Builder, Lover
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hope Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 155
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03-15-2008 13:27
Im still wondering what these changes mean to us 'little people'. Will our Gor sims be banned? Will we see tier prices go up or down? I dont care about this 'Tao' stuff. I want to know how this is going to affect me, the land I'm about to invest in and my online experience in SL. If they sell out to big business and the corporations then its byebye to most resident created content unless you are fond of major censorship and a disney-type environment. I also dont want to buy a sim to see its value drop overnight if the new pricing cuts costs in half. Does that mean I get another sim for the money Ive invested? Most likely not....
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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03-15-2008 13:53
hope, there's no reason to suspect that any of those things are going to happen, and nothing inherent in this news to suggest that they will. Not to say that they won't do those things at some point if LL and its board decide its in the best inerest of the company, but you shouldn't read any more into this news than is there.
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Toy Halfpint
Eats Paintchips
Join date: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 88
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03-15-2008 13:55
jeezy, nothing will change other than a few titles. Things will not change. We will continue stumbling along blindly.
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"I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow..."
- Ex Mentor (3 yrs)
- Ex SL Instructor (3 yrs)
- Ex Live Helper (2 yrs)
I learned my lesson
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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03-15-2008 16:21
From: Chip Midnight AOL was an extremely cool place to be back in the early 90's. It was populated almost exclusively by early adopter types and the mean IQ level was very high - rather like the early days of SL. (Full disclosure: on AOL's TV commercials from around 1993-1996 I was the person driving the cursor). What AOL did was make the internet easy and accesable to the mainstream at a time when it wasn't (with very few exceptions). Not everyone thought BBSs were the end all be all. The geek squad was there in force (and at CompuServe) until there were greener pastures.
SL is following a very similar path. It started out as almost a private party for techy geeks and artists but now has opened up this relatively new genre to the mainstream. That's a good thing. Anything that posters at Slashdot look down their enormous ego-swelled coke-bottle lensed glasses supporting noses at must be doing something right. Personally I find that place pretty insufferable most of the time. I'd say SL becoming the AOL of virtual worlds would be a best case scenario, not worst. I've noticed that as well! It really is a VERY similar path to AOL in that timeframe. (You were AOL at that time, too? I was part of AOL -- as a member, then later as a IP -- 1993-1997, and part of the "first million" there, too. I wasn't in the commercials, though I did go to the partner events in SF and my first writing credits were in some of the AOL books) Mari
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  "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world  " - Prospero Linden
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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03-15-2008 16:26
From: Toy Halfpint jeezy, nothing will change other than a few titles. Things will not change. We will continue stumbling along blindly. LOL this easily has as much chance of being the case as all the other speculation put together. Course while it says things won't get worse under the new regime, since there will be no new regime, It also says nothing will get better. |
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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03-15-2008 16:29
From: Marianne McCann I've noticed that as well! It really is a VERY similar path to AOL in that timeframe. The only similarity I'd like to see between SL and AOL is the growth. I was a Compuserve guy and was broken hearted when AOL took over. I watched over the years as AOL became worse and worse. I'm enjoying seeing what looks like its dying days.
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My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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03-15-2008 16:35
From: Marianne McCann I've noticed that as well! It really is a VERY similar path to AOL in that timeframe.
(You were AOL at that time, too? I was part of AOL -- as a member, then later as a IP -- 1993-1997, and part of the "first million" there, too. I wasn't in the commercials, though I did go to the partner events in SF and my first writing credits were in some of the AOL books)
Mari I worked at a multimedia/video production house a couple of blocks away from their headquarters in Tysons Corner, VA. AOL was one of our clients. I was part of the video department and we did all the scan conversions when they wanted to show the interface for the commercials and I usually drove the mouse. The guy who shared an office with me did all the animation for their commercials. I also appeared as a testemonial talking head in some promotional CD-Rom they put out at one point around 95 I think (don't remember what for). After that I left and started my own business. I never attended any of their partner events, but I used to go across the street for their Friday keg parties back when they were still small. I think I got my complimentary AOL account when there were around 3-4k members. Until about a year ago I still knew people who worked there. Aside from the 90 trillion CDs they mailed out, they never deserved all the hate they got. It was a great product for its intended market.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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03-15-2008 16:40
From: Chip Midnight Aside from the 90 trillion CDs they mailed out, they never deserved all the hate they got. It was a great product for its intended market. Hey they did a couple other things that were shady. AOL was all right while you had the account. But trying to leave was horrible. For a long time you could not leave via online means at all, only by using the phone. Even though you could sign up purely online. And I had to try leaving 3 times before it finally let me go (1999) and they would not, no matter how many managers I talked to reimburse me for the extra months charged. From what I remember at the time my experience was not out of the ordinary. So serious Hotel California-esque hate for AOL. |